Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:55 AM - Tire valve extension (JOHN STARN)
2. 09:14 AM - Spins in a Harmon Rocket (Christopher Norris)
3. 09:17 AM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (Fred Weaver)
4. 10:36 AM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (C. Rabaut)
5. 11:23 AM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (Norman Younie)
6. 11:31 AM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (Randy Compton)
7. 03:30 PM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (C. Rabaut)
8. 03:36 PM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (C. Rabaut)
9. 10:50 PM - Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket (Lee Taylor)
Message 1
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"rocket-list" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Tire valve extension |
NEW_DOMAIN_EXTENSIONS
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
We got ours at NAPA Auto, #HE-391 valve extension. See photos on wheels
pants in archives. KABONG Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: NEW - Tire Valve Extension NEW_DOMAIN_EXTENSIONS
> --> RV-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
> also available from road type RV stores.
>
> hal
Message 2
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| Subject: | Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
Non - politics topic:
Anyone an expert in spins in the Rocket? Techniques
for entry and exit? Comparison to other aircraft -
Citabrias or Pitts, etc.? How about Rocket aerobatics
in general? Anything that one just shouldn't attempt
(assuming proper training)?
Looking forward to some ROCKET talk!
Chris N760RF
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Hey Chris... Did you figure out how to land without bouncing?
:)
Weav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Norris" <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris
<chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
>
> Non - politics topic:
>
> Anyone an expert in spins in the Rocket? Techniques
> for entry and exit? Comparison to other aircraft -
> Citabrias or Pitts, etc.? How about Rocket aerobatics
> in general? Anything that one just shouldn't attempt
> (assuming proper training)?
>
> Looking forward to some ROCKET talk!
>
> Chris N760RF
>
>
> __________________________________
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Chris,
I ain't no "rocket scientist" (though I play one in my dreams), I would
strongly urge you to avoid inverted flat spins in the Rocket. I got into
one w/ 2 occupants and we were sorta maple leafing down at a fairly rapid
rate. This was with a carb (no inverted fuel) and the engine promptly
stopped. No amount of forward stick & full ailerons & rudder input seemed
to accomplish the desired rollin' over... The magic occurred when the
starter was engaged, and on about the third revolution the prop action
actually helped pull the nose down & we rolled back over. Recovery at that
point was textbook spin recovery (nose down to gain airspeed, hard rudder to
stop the spin, level wings and then bleed off excess speed as
safely/gradually as possible considering the terra firma rush).
The "maple leaf" maneuver was accomplished whilst attempting a
hammerhead after a beautiful series of successful rolls, loops, and
semi-flat spins. But the hardest thing we did that day, was trying to pull
out all the seat cushion foam! :-}
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Norris <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris
<chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
>
> Non - politics topic:
>
> Anyone an expert in spins in the Rocket? Techniques
> for entry and exit? Comparison to other aircraft -
> Citabrias or Pitts, etc.? How about Rocket aerobatics
> in general? Anything that one just shouldn't attempt
> (assuming proper training)?
>
> Looking forward to some ROCKET talk!
>
> Chris N760RF
>
>
> __________________________________
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Norman Younie" <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
Chuck the next time you do a hammerhead make absolutely certain that you
have quite flying. If the wings are generating any lift whatsoever you will
flip over on your back. It took me several attempts to figure that one out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
> Chris,
>
> I ain't no "rocket scientist" (though I play one in my dreams), I
would
> strongly urge you to avoid inverted flat spins in the Rocket. I got into
> one w/ 2 occupants and we were sorta maple leafing down at a fairly rapid
> rate. This was with a carb (no inverted fuel) and the engine promptly
> stopped. No amount of forward stick & full ailerons & rudder input
seemed
> to accomplish the desired rollin' over... The magic occurred when the
> starter was engaged, and on about the third revolution the prop action
> actually helped pull the nose down & we rolled back over. Recovery at
that
> point was textbook spin recovery (nose down to gain airspeed, hard rudder
to
> stop the spin, level wings and then bleed off excess speed as
> safely/gradually as possible considering the terra firma rush).
>
> The "maple leaf" maneuver was accomplished whilst attempting a
> hammerhead after a beautiful series of successful rolls, loops, and
> semi-flat spins. But the hardest thing we did that day, was trying to
pull
> out all the seat cushion foam! :-}
>
> Chuck
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christopher Norris <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris
> <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Non - politics topic:
> >
> > Anyone an expert in spins in the Rocket? Techniques
> > for entry and exit? Comparison to other aircraft -
> > Citabrias or Pitts, etc.? How about Rocket aerobatics
> > in general? Anything that one just shouldn't attempt
> > (assuming proper training)?
> >
> > Looking forward to some ROCKET talk!
> >
> > Chris N760RF
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> > http://companion.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Randy Compton" <thecomptons@bellsouth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
>> stopped. No amount of forward stick & full ailerons & rudder input
seemed
> to accomplish the desired rollin' over... The magic occurred when the
> starter was engaged, and on about the third revolution the prop action
> actually helped pull the nose down & we rolled back over.
Just wondering if your recovery inputs may have been a contributing factor..
If you were in an inverted spin, the correct stick input is aft. Forward
stick will delay/prevent recovery. This procedure applies to jet fighters,
as well. Both the F-14 and A-4 departure/spin procedures call for stick aft
if in an inverted spin.
Randy Compton
Gulf Breeze, FL
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Thanks for the update Norm.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Norman Younie <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net
>
> Chuck the next time you do a hammerhead make absolutely certain that you
> have quite flying. If the wings are generating any lift whatsoever you
will
> flip over on your back. It took me several attempts to figure that one
out.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Randy,
Good point, but that's assuming you are in a "flat" inverted spin.
Calm post incident analysis, aka "debriefing", lead both us to surmise we
were flopping around sorta' tail heavy. It is possible that my efforts
were counter productive, but hey I was tryin'..... and the controls were
not.
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Compton <thecomptons@bellsouth.net>
>
> Just wondering if your recovery inputs may have been a contributing
factor..
>
> If you were in an inverted spin, the correct stick input is aft. Forward
> stick will delay/prevent recovery. This procedure applies to jet
fighters,
> as well. Both the F-14 and A-4 departure/spin procedures call for stick
aft
> if in an inverted spin.
>
> Randy Compton
> Gulf Breeze, FL
Message 9
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| Subject: | Spins in a Harmon Rocket |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor " <leetay1@idcomm.com>
RE:hammerheads.
Guys, when you are flying aerobatics, you should be thoroughly
mentally prepared for what can happen, which can be tremendously
different from what you EXPECT. Hammerheads are a case in point.
A hammerhead is one of the easiest, lowest-stress manuvers that
can be done. If done correctly. However, it is NOT a manuver that is
automatically easy.
Understand one thing very strongly. ALL planes, even full-blown
acro birds, are LIFTING as you pull into the manuver. (Symmetrical
foils are trimmed up, for level flight, so they are trimmed for lift
also.) As you pull to the vertical, it will take considerable FORWARD
STICK to maintain vertical, opposing that lift/trim, which will be
trying to pull you over inverted as you become vertical. Otherwise, the
plane will NATURALLY pull thru the vertical to a negative attitude. We
are at full power, of course.
In a properly flown manuver, you pull to vertical, and then you
are holding considerable forward stick to maintain the proper vertical,
opposing that natural lifting tendency of the airfoil AND TRIM which is
trying to pull you over onto your back. As the airspeed hits about
15-20 mph, (almost stopped), you stomp rudder to get the pivot, and come
in with OPPOSING aileron to keep the wings level as you pivot. (As the
plane rotates, the inside wing goes to zero airspeed, the outer wing
speeds up. The natural result is lift on the outside wing, which will
tend to roll the plane over to inverted if it pivots without the
opposing aileron.) The result PROPERLY DONE is a beautiful pivot from
the vertical, around the inside wingtip, wings staying vertical until
vertical-down is achieved. As soon as full pivot is achieved, power
should come off. Recovery is simply picking up speed then pulling to
level.
Let's foul up the manuver just a little, tho. We don't
initially get enough forward stick in to hold the vertical, and
consequently get a little too far toward inverted on the vertical
upline. (Remember that the plane will NATURALLY TRY to pull itself to
that position.) Pushing harder to get back to vertical, we arrive at the
stall with a little negative pitch attitude, (slightly inverted, instead
of vertical), full power, kicking rudder, and opposite aileron. What
happens now?
What happens is that when the plane stalls, since it is somewhat
over onto its back, is that you have a VIOLENT entry into an absolutely
textbook control input application to an inverted flat spin. You were
expecting a nice, gentle rotation on a very gentle hammerhead, and
because you fouled up slightly, instead you get a violent negative-G
fall entry into an inverted flat spin.
Think about it just a little. Inverted stall, forward stick,
hard rudder, OPPOSITE aileron, and full power. That, gentlemen, is
textbook control and power input for an inverted flat spin. And I can
almost guarantee you, those of us who do deliberate IFS's DO NOT enter
them from this kind of violent entry! And to fall suddenly
hard-negative and develop an inverted spin? When you were expecting a
nice, gentle rotation and beautiful, smooth, flowing positive-or-"0"-G
manuver? There are very few things that are more totally disorienting.
PLEASE, please, please. Any time something fouls up, have a
preplanned plan of action firmly in your mind. Any time you do not
recognize what has happened, IDLE POWER, and LET GO. Get off
everything. The plane will quickly stabilize in a NO-POWER dive, which
hopefully you can recognise and then recover from. Altitude permitting.
(Don't do low-level acro, guys. That's just plain stupid.)
I would suggest you then land, otherwise the plane gets stinky
pretty quickly from your pants.
Lee Taylor
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Norman Younie
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:24 PM
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
>
>
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Norman Younie"
> <rv6capt@pacificcoast.net>
>
> Chuck the next time you do a hammerhead make absolutely
> certain that you
> have quite flying. If the wings are generating any lift
> whatsoever you will
> flip over on your back. It took me several attempts to figure
> that one out.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut"
> <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > I ain't no "rocket scientist" (though I play one in my
> dreams), I
> would
> > strongly urge you to avoid inverted flat spins in the
> Rocket. I got into
> > one w/ 2 occupants and we were sorta maple leafing down at
> a fairly rapid
> > rate. This was with a carb (no inverted fuel) and the
> engine promptly
> > stopped. No amount of forward stick & full ailerons & rudder input
> seemed
> > to accomplish the desired rollin' over... The magic
> occurred when the
> > starter was engaged, and on about the third revolution the
> prop action
> > actually helped pull the nose down & we rolled back over.
> Recovery at
> that
> > point was textbook spin recovery (nose down to gain
> airspeed, hard rudder
> to
> > stop the spin, level wings and then bleed off excess speed as
> > safely/gradually as possible considering the terra firma rush).
> >
> > The "maple leaf" maneuver was accomplished whilst attempting a
> > hammerhead after a beautiful series of successful rolls, loops, and
> > semi-flat spins. But the hardest thing we did that day,
> was trying to
> pull
> > out all the seat cushion foam! :-}
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Christopher Norris <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
> > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Rocket-List: Spins in a Harmon Rocket
> >
> >
> > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Christopher Norris
> > <chrissnorris@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Non - politics topic:
> > >
> > > Anyone an expert in spins in the Rocket? Techniques
> > > for entry and exit? Comparison to other aircraft -
> > > Citabrias or Pitts, etc.? How about Rocket aerobatics
> > > in general? Anything that one just shouldn't attempt
> > > (assuming proper training)?
> > >
> > > Looking forward to some ROCKET talk!
> > >
> > > Chris N760RF
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ===========
> ============
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
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