Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:01 AM - Re: dead stick landings (dougpoulton)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: ceramic coated exhaust pipes (Hr2pilot@aol.com)
3. 08:19 AM - Re: dead stick landings (C. Rabaut)
4. 08:27 AM - Re: Prop pitch vs Glide (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
5. 08:36 AM - Prop Pitch vs Glide ~ Whoops (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
6. 08:37 AM - Re: ceramic coated exhaust pipes (P M Condon)
7. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: ceramic coated exhaust pipes (Archie)
8. 09:00 AM - Re: dead stick landings/prop settings (Boyd Braem)
9. 09:43 AM - Re: 2 blade (Boyd Braem)
10. 12:48 PM - Aerobatics in Rockets (Scott Miller)
11. 01:28 PM - Re: dead stick landings (dougpoulton)
12. 01:51 PM - Re: Aerobatics in Rockets (C. Rabaut)
13. 01:58 PM - Re: dead stick/beer (Boyd Braem)
14. 01:59 PM - Re: dead stick landings (C. Rabaut)
15. 03:39 PM - Fund for a brave Lt. Col. (JOHN STARN)
16. 05:15 PM - Re: Fund for a brave Lt. Col. (Tom Gummo)
17. 05:34 PM - Re: Fund for a brave Lt. Col. (JOHN STARN)
18. 07:59 PM - dead stick landings revisited (Harry Paine)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: dead stick landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
When contending with an engine failure, (an engine failure that most
assuredly will not restart) three very important issues come to the fore; 1)
Buy time/conserve altitude...PULL THE PROP CONTROL BACK, fly at best lift
over drag/best glide speed and leave the gear and flaps up. Better to land
on the airfield gear up than the apartment complex gear down. 2) Where the
h&*% are you going to land? You might be suprized at how many times you
change your mind on this, being somewhat URGENT and all--power lines where
you thought they weren't, wind speed and direction different than you
thought, what looks suitable from altitude looks less so when low and 3) You
might want to sacrifice some of that time conserving airspeed for the
additional airspeed and control to land precisely where you want, below
2000ft or so. I've had 6 engine failures in 18,000hrs and half of them were
my own damn fault. Every one of them scared the dickens out of me, and one
or two gave me nightmares for a week. I woudn't say that the experience
ruined the romance of flying for me but I keep a nary eye out for suitable
places to set down when flying a single.
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> In practicing dead stick landings I tried that once with a CFI in the
right
> seat and he wasn't too happy saying that it messes up my judgment if I am
> used to a fine pitch windmilling prop. I thought a full coarse pitch would
> buy me some time and the judgment comes from having made landings at
various
> rates of descent.
> Go figure.
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
<dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> >
> > I had to dead stick a Cessna 210 once, and learned that pulling the prop
> > control to full decrease reduced the descent rate by about half.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> >
> >
> > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > > I might add that you should be about 1/3 closer than most people fly
> their
> > > downwind.
> > > Tom Gummo
> > > Apple Valley, CA
> > > Harmon Rocket-II
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
> > > <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hey Harry, that's easy, be abeam your landing numbers, pull throttle
> > back
> > > > and TURN LEFT Fast ! better than any autorotation ! Do Not Archive,
> > > N999RM
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Harry Paine" <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > To: "Boyd C. Braem" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Harry Paine
> <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay Okay spins pins F4's smores F100'S Bunions!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets hear about rockets and engine out adventures!
> > > > >
> > > > > It is a real eye opener when yoou pull the throttle all the way
back
> > and
> > > > > leave it there till you reach the runway, I challenge all
> > > > > you listers with rockets to try that and see what a boat anchor is
> > > like!!
> > > > >
> > > > > 266HP
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: ceramic coated exhaust pipes |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Hr2pilot@aol.com
We supply the exhaust for the Rocket II and have had good service with them,
the experience with ceramics has not been good. The coating seems to the
contaminate the SS and make it brittle.
John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: dead stick landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Okay Doug, Now we want to hear about each of the "six"....
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dougpoulton <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
>
> When contending with an engine failure, (an engine failure that most
> assuredly will not restart) three very important issues come to the fore;
1)
> Buy time/conserve altitude...PULL THE PROP CONTROL BACK, fly at best lift
> over drag/best glide speed and leave the gear and flaps up. Better to land
> on the airfield gear up than the apartment complex gear down. 2) Where the
> h&*% are you going to land? You might be suprized at how many times you
> change your mind on this, being somewhat URGENT and all--power lines where
> you thought they weren't, wind speed and direction different than you
> thought, what looks suitable from altitude looks less so when low and 3)
You
> might want to sacrifice some of that time conserving airspeed for the
> additional airspeed and control to land precisely where you want, below
> 2000ft or so. I've had 6 engine failures in 18,000hrs and half of them
were
> my own damn fault. Every one of them scared the dickens out of me, and one
> or two gave me nightmares for a week. I woudn't say that the experience
> ruined the romance of flying for me but I keep a nary eye out for suitable
> places to set down when flying a single.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> >
> > In practicing dead stick landings I tried that once with a CFI in the
> right
> > seat and he wasn't too happy saying that it messes up my judgment if I
am
> > used to a fine pitch windmilling prop. I thought a full coarse pitch
would
> > buy me some time and the judgment comes from having made landings at
> various
> > rates of descent.
> > Go figure.
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> >
> >
> > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
> <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > I had to dead stick a Cessna 210 once, and learned that pulling the
prop
> > > control to full decrease reduced the descent rate by about half.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > >
> > > > Bob,
> > > > I might add that you should be about 1/3 closer than most people fly
> > their
> > > > downwind.
> > > > Tom Gummo
> > > > Apple Valley, CA
> > > > Harmon Rocket-II
> > > >
> > > > do not archive
> > > >
> > > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
> > > > <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Harry, that's easy, be abeam your landing numbers, pull
throttle
> > > back
> > > > > and TURN LEFT Fast ! better than any autorotation ! Do Not
Archive,
> > > > N999RM
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Harry Paine" <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > > To: "Boyd C. Braem" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Harry Paine
> > <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Okay Okay spins pins F4's smores F100'S Bunions!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lets hear about rockets and engine out adventures!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is a real eye opener when yoou pull the throttle all the way
> back
> > > and
> > > > > > leave it there till you reach the runway, I challenge all
> > > > > > you listers with rockets to try that and see what a boat anchor
is
> > > > like!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 266HP
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Prop pitch vs Glide |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
"I thought a full coarse pitch would buy me some time and the judgment comes
from having made landings at various rates of descent."
>>>As an old CFI, the owner (you) usually knows what is best in his aircraft,
if the CFI doesn't have an excellent explanation for his comments it is
evident he "hasn't been there and done that" If you need more glide ~~ ask him
what
he would do, slow down and spin in? Many many CFI's haven't the experience
in different aircraft we did in the '60's as most schools they work at have
only Cessna's & Pipers maybe a taildragger, but I feel the majority have flown
very few types of aircraft and are to specialized in many ways. They can tell
you how to fly a GPS, but not how an aircraft without power affects the glide
~~ as stated normal CS prop will go to flat pitch. Normal CS prop RPM
increasing and unable to control is normally first indication (sadly) pilots get
of
losing oil pressure.
You should know your aircraft much better than a CFI, even he has extensive
experience in an aircraft similar to yours. Use his knowledge, and apply yours
get the best of both worlds.
PS: Do you know the best gliding speed at a light weight vs a heavy weight
on your aircraft? Try to find out you will be surprised!
Elbie, Old CFI
www.riteangle.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Prop Pitch vs Glide ~ Whoops |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
I apologize to any pilots that are female out there, All comments apply to
all pilots, regardless of gender. Some of the finest Captains I ever threw the
gear for were of the opposite sex.
Elbie
Retired aircarrier, still a CFI
Message 6
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| Subject: | re: ceramic coated exhaust pipes |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
This is common practice with the Glassair crowd and the race cars I've
seen at the NHRA meets. Heat radiation(reduction) into a crowded engine
compartment is the reason cited from the Glassair folks. The Glassair's
have been flying for a while, I think we would have heard if there were
bad effects on the exhaust systems. Does anyone else have a contact into
the Glassair crowd to pose this question ??
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: re: ceramic coated exhaust pipes |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
> This is common practice with the Glassair crowd and the race cars I've
> seen at the NHRA meets. Heat radiation(reduction) into a crowded engine
> compartment is the reason cited from the Glassair folks. The Glassair's
> have been flying for a while, I think we would have heard if there were
> bad effects on the exhaust systems. Does anyone else have a contact into
> the Glassair crowd to pose this question ??
This is almost common practice in many race cars.
Our drag engines (gasoline), are routinely done, with the alcohol and
nitro burners close behind.
Almost all Nascar and large circle track engines are treated to help
insulate the driver from heat, (if you see the configuration, you would
understand why), and to gain a bit of hp through heat maintenance.
My ac exhaust is not coated due to my current experimentation with the
exhaust design, but once finalized, it will be done.
Archie's Racing Service
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: dead stick landings/prop settings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
I posted some test flights in the archives some time ago about fine
pitch/coarse pitch power off descents--as Doug mentions, being is
coarse pitch, reduces your sink-rate-time thru 1,000' by just about
half (or, gives you twice as long to drop a thou as opposed to fine
pitch).
If I remember right, from 4k to 3k at 84 kts, it was 50 sec in fine
pitch and 104 sec in coarse pitch.
Boyd.
do not archive
On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 02:11 PM, dougpoulton wrote:
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
> <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
>
> I had to dead stick a Cessna 210 once, and learned that pulling the
> prop
> control to full decrease reduced the descent rate by about half.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
>
>
>> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
>>
>> Bob,
>> I might add that you should be about 1/3 closer than most people fly
>> their
>> downwind.
>> Tom Gummo
>> Apple Valley, CA
>> Harmon Rocket-II
>>
Message 9
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Being absolutely, unecessarily cavalier about this, I thought that's
how you learned to do a real tail slide?
On Monday, December 8, 2003, at 11:40 AM, Lee Taylor wrote:
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor " <leetay1@idcomm.com>
>
> Guys, please be careful with these birds. They are magnificently
> capable of doing some absolutely spectacular things, but with the prop
> extensions-----and you WILL NOT get A-N-Y warning of a problem--you
> will
> just instantly lose the prop. And I don't think I need to tell any of
> you what would happen when the C.G. shifts that radically.
>
> Lee Taylor
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:04 PM
>> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Rocket-List: 2 blade
>>
>>
>> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
>>
>> Thanks Boyd,
>> 4 g's should be enough but I hat to have it as a limit. I pulled 5gs
>> once while flying Mark Fredrick's so 4gs will become a limit so to
>> speak. I wonder if the J twist has the same limit?
>> Jim Stone
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Boyd Braem
>> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 2 blade
>>
>> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
>>
>> Jim--
>>
>> Hartzell HC-M2YR-1BF. Blades are F8475D-4 (80"). After having it
>> dynamically balanced, it purrs like a kitten. Unfortunately,
>> it has a
>> 4" prop extension and Hartzell recommends not to exceed 4 Gs or do
>> "frequent gyroscopic maneuvers".
>>
>>
>>> ==
>> ==
>> ==
>> ==
>>
>>
>> ===========
>> ============
>> ============
>> ============
>> ============
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Boyd C. Braem, MD
RV-Super 6
Venice, FL
Boyd C. Braem, MD
RV-Super 6
Venice, FL
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aerobatics in Rockets |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Scott Miller" <scott65@quik.com>
I will only use my F-1 for "gentelman" style aerobatics. Probably never exceed
3 "G's". If you guys want to fly harder, get something made for harder aerobatics.
Rv's, and Rockets were never intended for hard, or competition aerobatics.
Just because they are a +6 "G" airframe, doesn't make them a competition or
hard aerobatic machine. They are too fast when pointed downhill, and are not strong
enough for the "oh sh**" mistakes that happen. My One Design will be used
for aerobatics, and my Rocket for travel, and fun flying. If you want hard aerobatics,
get a Pitts, Extra, or something designed for that purpose. Scott
F-1 #123
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: dead stick landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
One in a Cherokee six, about a hundred feet above Reno's rnwy 16. A no
brainer really, engine quit shortly after takeoff. Landed on the remaining
7000ft of runway. Airplane had just come from maint., where they alledgedly
fixed the same problem. Never learned why it quit, but added the scenario
to my memory banks, already laden with entertaining flights in machines that
just came from maintenance. Two, also out of Reno, early '80s, flying a
Piper Aztec for California Air Charter (now Ameriflight). During a
particularly severe winter storm one night I was level at 16,000ft over
Truckee, IMC, tube from the O2 tank in my mouth, and pondering my fuel
situation, since the DME from Sacramento read 35kts GS and it was going to
be 2 and a haif hours to cross the VOR. My dest was Oakland. Then, BOTH
engines quit. But why? I fussed with mixtures, turned on the boost pumps,
switched fuel tanks and applied the alternate air. Within 30 seconds or so,
I got 'em both running again. But I couldn't figure why they quit, so I
undid the steps to get them running and guess what? Five minutes later, the
left engine quit. Through a succesion failures and remedies I deduced the
culprit to be the alternate air controls. It was around minus 30 degrees OAT
in the clouds. I never enered IMC conditions again in that airplane without
applying full alternate air. Spoke years later with a coworker who told me
the same thing (same airplane, actually) happened to him and he was unable
to get one of the engines running til he was around 8000ft. over the
Sierras! He said you couldn't drive a needle up his ass with a sledge hammer
when that happened. Third, Beech Super E-18 on a long flight from SAN to HWD
a steady oil leak resulted in a precautioary feathering of the right engine
due to fluctuating oil press indications. Four, while ferrying a de Haviland
Beaver from Girdwood Alaska to the Bay area in March of '87 the engine
started running rough and kept getting worse, required me to make a forced
landing on a hilly dirt road on an Idian reservation 130mi south of Princ
George B.C. Cause was extremely fouled plugs. Five, or six depending on how
you look at it was in a Cessna turbo 210. Engine quit due to fuel exhuastion
resulting in a dead stick forcad landing at Livermore, CA. I know what youre
thinking, "what kind of idiot runs out of gas?" but there were mitigating
circumstances...perhaps sometime over a beer I'll share that one with you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>
> Okay Doug, Now we want to hear about each of the "six"....
>
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dougpoulton <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
<dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> >
> > When contending with an engine failure, (an engine failure that most
> > assuredly will not restart) three very important issues come to the
fore;
> 1)
> > Buy time/conserve altitude...PULL THE PROP CONTROL BACK, fly at best
lift
> > over drag/best glide speed and leave the gear and flaps up. Better to
land
> > on the airfield gear up than the apartment complex gear down. 2) Where
the
> > h&*% are you going to land? You might be suprized at how many times you
> > change your mind on this, being somewhat URGENT and all--power lines
where
> > you thought they weren't, wind speed and direction different than you
> > thought, what looks suitable from altitude looks less so when low and 3)
> You
> > might want to sacrifice some of that time conserving airspeed for the
> > additional airspeed and control to land precisely where you want, below
> > 2000ft or so. I've had 6 engine failures in 18,000hrs and half of them
> were
> > my own damn fault. Every one of them scared the dickens out of me, and
one
> > or two gave me nightmares for a week. I woudn't say that the experience
> > ruined the romance of flying for me but I keep a nary eye out for
suitable
> > places to set down when flying a single.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> >
> >
> > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "css nico"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> > >
> > > In practicing dead stick landings I tried that once with a CFI in the
> > right
> > > seat and he wasn't too happy saying that it messes up my judgment if I
> am
> > > used to a fine pitch windmilling prop. I thought a full coarse pitch
> would
> > > buy me some time and the judgment comes from having made landings at
> > various
> > > rates of descent.
> > > Go figure.
> > > Nico
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
> > <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > > >
> > > > I had to dead stick a Cessna 210 once, and learned that pulling the
> prop
> > > > control to full decrease reduced the descent rate by about half.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo"
<T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob,
> > > > > I might add that you should be about 1/3 closer than most people
fly
> > > their
> > > > > downwind.
> > > > > Tom Gummo
> > > > > Apple Valley, CA
> > > > > Harmon Rocket-II
> > > > >
> > > > > do not archive
> > > > >
> > > > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
> > > > > <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Harry, that's easy, be abeam your landing numbers, pull
> throttle
> > > > back
> > > > > > and TURN LEFT Fast ! better than any autorotation ! Do Not
> Archive,
> > > > > N999RM
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Harry Paine" <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > To: "Boyd C. Braem" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Harry Paine
> > > <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay Okay spins pins F4's smores F100'S Bunions!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lets hear about rockets and engine out adventures!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is a real eye opener when yoou pull the throttle all the
way
> > back
> > > > and
> > > > > > > leave it there till you reach the runway, I challenge all
> > > > > > > you listers with rockets to try that and see what a boat
anchor
> is
> > > > > like!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 266HP
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics in Rockets |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Thanks for the lecture Scott, everything you've stated is correct. But not
all of us are fortunate enough to stable both stallions (Rocket-RV and a
One-Design). "Knowin' your limits" and "Pushin' your limits" both have
their place in our lives; I prefer not to give up either. Just be careful
not to fall off that high horse you're riding.
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Miller <scott65@quik.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Aerobatics in Rockets
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Scott Miller" <scott65@quik.com>
>
> I will only use my F-1 for "gentelman" style aerobatics. Probably never
exceed 3 "G's". If you guys want to fly harder, get something made for
harder aerobatics. Rv's, and Rockets were never intended for hard, or
competition aerobatics. Just because they are a +6 "G" airframe, doesn't
make them a competition or hard aerobatic machine. They are too fast when
pointed downhill, and are not strong enough for the "oh sh**" mistakes that
happen. My One Design will be used for aerobatics, and my Rocket for travel,
and fun flying. If you want hard aerobatics, get a Pitts, Extra, or
something designed for that purpose. Scott F-1 #123
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: dead stick/beer |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Doug--
I'll buy the beer. We'll see if that Rabaut guy shows up. Give me a
time and place.
"a tube from the O2 tank in my mouth"--nasal prongs?--at least you can
talk and breathe.
Boyd
RV-Super 6
Venice, FL
do not archive
On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 04:29 PM, dougpoulton wrote:
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
> <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
>
> One in a Cherokee six, about a hundred feet above Reno's rnwy 16. A no
> brainer really, engine quit shortly after takeoff. Landed on the
> remaining
> 7000ft of runway. Airplane had just come from maint., where they
> alledgedly
> fixed the same problem. Never learned why it quit, but added the
> scenario
> to my memory banks, already laden with entertaining flights in
> machines that
> just came from maintenance. Two, also out of Reno, early '80s, flying
> a
> Piper Aztec for California Air Charter (now Ameriflight). During a
> particularly severe winter storm one night I was level at 16,000ft over
> Truckee, IMC, tube from the O2 tank in my mouth, and pondering my fuel
> situation, since the DME from Sacramento read 35kts GS and it was
> going to
> be 2 and a haif hours to cross the VOR. My dest was Oakland. Then, BOTH
> engines quit. But why? I fussed with mixtures, turned on the boost
> pumps,
> switched fuel tanks and applied the alternate air. Within 30 seconds
> or so,
> I got 'em both running again. But I couldn't figure why they quit, so I
> undid the steps to get them running and guess what? Five minutes
> later, the
> left engine quit. Through a succesion failures and remedies I deduced
> the
> culprit to be the alternate air controls. It was around minus 30
> degrees OAT
> in the clouds. I never enered IMC conditions again in that airplane
> without
> applying full alternate air. Spoke years later with a coworker who
> told me
> the same thing (same airplane, actually) happened to him and he was
> unable
> to get one of the engines running til he was around 8000ft. over the
> Sierras! He said you couldn't drive a needle up his ass with a sledge
> hammer
> when that happened. Third, Beech Super E-18 on a long flight from SAN
> to HWD
> a steady oil leak resulted in a precautioary feathering of the right
> engine
> due to fluctuating oil press indications. Four, while ferrying a de
> Haviland
> Beaver from Girdwood Alaska to the Bay area in March of '87 the engine
> started running rough and kept getting worse, required me to make a
> forced
> landing on a hilly dirt road on an Idian reservation 130mi south of
> Princ
> George B.C. Cause was extremely fouled plugs. Five, or six depending
> on how
> you look at it was in a Cessna turbo 210. Engine quit due to fuel
> exhuastion
> resulting in a dead stick forcad landing at Livermore, CA. I know what
> youre
> thinking, "what kind of idiot runs out of gas?" but there were
> mitigating
> circumstances...perhaps sometime over a beer I'll share that one with
> you.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
>
>
>> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
>>
>> Okay Doug, Now we want to hear about each of the "six"....
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: dead stick landings |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
Thanks Doug, for the stories.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dougpoulton <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
>
> One in a Cherokee six, about a hundred feet above Reno's rnwy 16. A no
> brainer really, engine quit shortly after takeoff. Landed on the remaining
> 7000ft of runway. Airplane had just come from maint., where they
alledgedly
> fixed the same problem. Never learned why it quit, but added the scenario
> to my memory banks, already laden with entertaining flights in machines
that
> just came from maintenance. Two, also out of Reno, early '80s, flying a
> Piper Aztec for California Air Charter (now Ameriflight). During a
> particularly severe winter storm one night I was level at 16,000ft over
> Truckee, IMC, tube from the O2 tank in my mouth, and pondering my fuel
> situation, since the DME from Sacramento read 35kts GS and it was going to
> be 2 and a haif hours to cross the VOR. My dest was Oakland. Then, BOTH
> engines quit. But why? I fussed with mixtures, turned on the boost pumps,
> switched fuel tanks and applied the alternate air. Within 30 seconds or
so,
> I got 'em both running again. But I couldn't figure why they quit, so I
> undid the steps to get them running and guess what? Five minutes later,
the
> left engine quit. Through a succesion failures and remedies I deduced the
> culprit to be the alternate air controls. It was around minus 30 degrees
OAT
> in the clouds. I never enered IMC conditions again in that airplane
without
> applying full alternate air. Spoke years later with a coworker who told me
> the same thing (same airplane, actually) happened to him and he was unable
> to get one of the engines running til he was around 8000ft. over the
> Sierras! He said you couldn't drive a needle up his ass with a sledge
hammer
> when that happened. Third, Beech Super E-18 on a long flight from SAN to
HWD
> a steady oil leak resulted in a precautioary feathering of the right
engine
> due to fluctuating oil press indications. Four, while ferrying a de
Haviland
> Beaver from Girdwood Alaska to the Bay area in March of '87 the engine
> started running rough and kept getting worse, required me to make a forced
> landing on a hilly dirt road on an Idian reservation 130mi south of Princ
> George B.C. Cause was extremely fouled plugs. Five, or six depending on
how
> you look at it was in a Cessna turbo 210. Engine quit due to fuel
exhuastion
> resulting in a dead stick forcad landing at Livermore, CA. I know what
youre
> thinking, "what kind of idiot runs out of gas?" but there were mitigating
> circumstances...perhaps sometime over a beer I'll share that one with you.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut@coalinga.com>
> >
> > Okay Doug, Now we want to hear about each of the "six"....
> >
> >
> > do not archive
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: dougpoulton <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> >
> >
> > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
> <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > When contending with an engine failure, (an engine failure that most
> > > assuredly will not restart) three very important issues come to the
> fore;
> > 1)
> > > Buy time/conserve altitude...PULL THE PROP CONTROL BACK, fly at best
> lift
> > > over drag/best glide speed and leave the gear and flaps up. Better to
> land
> > > on the airfield gear up than the apartment complex gear down. 2) Where
> the
> > > h&*% are you going to land? You might be suprized at how many times
you
> > > change your mind on this, being somewhat URGENT and all--power lines
> where
> > > you thought they weren't, wind speed and direction different than you
> > > thought, what looks suitable from altitude looks less so when low and
3)
> > You
> > > might want to sacrifice some of that time conserving airspeed for the
> > > additional airspeed and control to land precisely where you want,
below
> > > 2000ft or so. I've had 6 engine failures in 18,000hrs and half of
them
> > were
> > > my own damn fault. Every one of them scared the dickens out of me, and
> one
> > > or two gave me nightmares for a week. I woudn't say that the
experience
> > > ruined the romance of flying for me but I keep a nary eye out for
> suitable
> > > places to set down when flying a single.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "css nico"
> <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> > > >
> > > > In practicing dead stick landings I tried that once with a CFI in
the
> > > right
> > > > seat and he wasn't too happy saying that it messes up my judgment if
I
> > am
> > > > used to a fine pitch windmilling prop. I thought a full coarse pitch
> > would
> > > > buy me some time and the judgment comes from having made landings at
> > > various
> > > > rates of descent.
> > > > Go figure.
> > > > Nico
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "dougpoulton" <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "dougpoulton"
> > > <dougpoulton@comcast.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > I had to dead stick a Cessna 210 once, and learned that pulling
the
> > prop
> > > > > control to full decrease reduced the descent rate by about half.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo"
> <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > > I might add that you should be about 1/3 closer than most people
> fly
> > > > their
> > > > > > downwind.
> > > > > > Tom Gummo
> > > > > > Apple Valley, CA
> > > > > > Harmon Rocket-II
> > > > > >
> > > > > > do not archive
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > > > > To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
> > > > > > <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Harry, that's easy, be abeam your landing numbers, pull
> > throttle
> > > > > back
> > > > > > > and TURN LEFT Fast ! better than any autorotation ! Do Not
> > Archive,
> > > > > > N999RM
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Harry Paine" <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > > To: "Boyd C. Braem" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > > > Subject: Rocket-List: dead stick landings
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --> Rocket-List message posted by: Harry Paine
> > > > <hpaine@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Okay Okay spins pins F4's smores F100'S Bunions!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Lets hear about rockets and engine out adventures!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is a real eye opener when yoou pull the throttle all the
> way
> > > back
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > leave it there till you reach the runway, I challenge all
> > > > > > > > you listers with rockets to try that and see what a boat
> anchor
> > is
> > > > > > like!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 266HP
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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"rocket-list" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Fund for a brave Lt. Col. |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Does anyone know IF there is a fund to help the Army Lt. Col. who was fined
$5,000.00 in his Article 15 for shooting off a round (or two) close to a
terrorist in order to get him to tell about an ambush. This action saved
American lives BUT they still fined the Lt. Col. as part of his punishment.
I've got a small Christmas present ($$$) for him IF you know IF and WHERE
there is such a fund OR if we have a banker in the group, how do we set one
up. KABONG (GBA) Do Not Archive.
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fund for a brave Lt. Col. |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
Allen West Defense Fund
c/o Angela West
6823 Coleman Drive
Ft. Hood, TX 76544
Isn't the internet a wonderful thing?
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
<rocket-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Fund for a brave Lt. Col.
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Does anyone know IF there is a fund to help the Army Lt. Col. who was
fined
> $5,000.00 in his Article 15 for shooting off a round (or two) close to a
> terrorist in order to get him to tell about an ambush. This action saved
> American lives BUT they still fined the Lt. Col. as part of his
punishment.
> I've got a small Christmas present ($$$) for him IF you know IF and WHERE
> there is such a fund OR if we have a banker in the group, how do we set
one
> up. KABONG (GBA) Do Not Archive.
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fund for a brave Lt. Col. |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Dang, ya ask a question of the whole world and the answer is just next door.
My check is in the mail. KABONG
Do Not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Fund for a brave Lt. Col.
> Allen West Defense Fund
> c/o Angela West
> 6823 Coleman Drive
> Ft. Hood, TX 76544
Does anyone know IF there is a fund to help the Army Lt. Col. who was
> fined $5,000.00 in his Article 15 for shooting off a round (or two) close
to a
> terrorist in order to get him to tell about an ambush. This action saved
> American lives BUT they still fined the Lt. Col. as part of his
punishment.
> I've got a small Christmas present ($$$) for him IF you know IF and WHERE
> there is such a fund OR if we have a banker in the group, how do we set
one
> up. KABONG (GBA) Do Not Archive.
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | dead stick landings revisited |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Harry Paine <hpaine@earthlink.net>
Okay Okay spins pins F4's smores F100'S Bunions!!
Lets hear about rockets and engine out adventures!
It is a real eye opener when yoou pull the throttle all the way back and
leave it there till you reach the runway, I challenge all
you listers with rockets to try that and see what a boat anchor is like!!
266HP
Hmmm NOBODY STEPPED FORWARD WHO HAVE HAD A FULL ROCKET ENGINE OUT!!
I KNOW FOR A FACT THERE ARE SOME LURKERS OUT THERE!
ADDITIONALLY THOSE WHO TALKED ABOUT COARSE & FINE PITCH DON'T REALIZE ON
THE HARTZELL
TWO BLADE THAT MOST OF US HAVE GOES INTO FLAT PITCH WITH NO OIL PRESSURE ON
IT IE ENGINE TU!
GO AHEAD ASK THE HARTZELL BOYS & SEE WHAT THEY SAY!!
I HAVEN'T DONE IT YET BUT I HAVE HEARD FROM VERY REALIABLE SOURCES IT IS
BETTER TO STOP THE PROP THAN HAVE THAT BIG PANCAKE BRAKE ON!!
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