Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Rocket fuel pressure (Tom Martin)
2. 08:53 AM - Re: Speed for M-1 (P M Condon)
3. 09:02 AM - Gear leg install (Bob & Toodie Marshall)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: Rocket fuel pressure (u2nelson)
5. 09:40 AM - Re: Gear leg install (Tom Martin)
6. 10:24 AM - Re: Rocket fuel pressure (Fred Weaver)
7. 03:08 PM - Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rocket fuel pressure |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" <fairlea@execulink.com>
Rich/Greg
I have the VM1000 in my plane as well. I have seen what you are describing
on two occasions. Both times it was after I had refuelled the plane on a hot
day and then climbed to eight or ten thousand feet. When I levelled off I
got a warning of low fuel pressure. The plane seemed to be running fine and
I turned off the engine monitor and restarted it and the problem was gone.
I suspect a bit of vapour had somehow disrupted the pressure reading.
I do like the VM1000 as the flashing warning display does attract my
attention when it notices something is out of range.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Winnick645@cs.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Winnick645@cs.com
Greg,
Do you have a VM 1000? I regularly see this on my F1. I called vision
microsystems and they indicated that the fuel pressure off the engine driven
pump
fluctuates in a sine wave type pattern and the VM 1000 is sensitive enough
that
it will monitor the highs and lows of the wave pattern. I was a little
skeptical so I installed another engine driven pump... no change. The
engine has
never missed a beat.
F1 #2 Rich Winnick
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Speed for M-1 |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
Larry,
Check the archives on this issue. I questioned the rocket group on
these issues a while ago and received many good replies, ideas and
directions on Rocket performance items compared to the "standard"
flight items. There are many who want the best performance available
from these rockets, so a C/$ prop, fuel injection and a Hi-output engine
are a must . There are those (recent California guy who built a basic
Rocket with a stock engine for reliability...Sport Aviation I think),
and others who can live quite well with a stock O-540, wood prop, carb
and basic instruments. Define your mission, needs, how deep your pockets
are and consider the advise from the group.
I, for one, went the basic route. I have flown both F/P RV-4's and C/$
RV-4's and F/I & Carb. versions. The C/$ RV-4 pushed me back in the seat
a LITTLE bit more on take off. 5000$ to 7000 dollars worth.....no!!. The
Wood prop pushes me back into the seat just fine on take off. Slowing
down on final the C/$ prop can slow me down and increase my decent angle
a little. Proper speed and planing and using slips can do the same thing
with my wood prop. My Conclusion is that I am over 96+% "there" (what
ever there means) with a basic carb, F/P prop Rocket.
800$ to 1900$ for a governer, 5000$ to 10,000$ for a C/S prop ,3000$ for
F/I, 600$ for a Dukes or Weldon fuel pump and many other hi dollar item
I can't recall now. Compair this to no prop governer, Ed Sterba 2 or 3
blade wood prop 600$ to 1200$, Carb 400$ to recertify and rebuild, 35$
Fauset Vans fuel pump,no hi pressure fuel lines.....all in all I can
live with a basic setup and have as much fun. (BTW, at altitude, my F/P
RV has the same speed as the Hartzell RV-4 with same engine.....) Also,
I am 60# to 75# lighter with out the prop governer and C/$ prop.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Gear leg install |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall" <rtmarshall@osb.net>
Rocketeers, I used house insulation foam, the semi expanding kind, that you
would use to stop critters from getting inside and some old packing foam to
keep the foam from going all over the inside of the gear leg. Position the
fairing where you want it, stuff some of the packing foam inside a couple of
inches down and squirt the expanding foam, Mark Fredrick's gets to take
credit for the tips on a way to do this, I am considering wraping the gear
leg about halfway down with a smalll amount of packing foam, even carpet
pad? I think would work, before I reinstall the fairing to lend a little
support at that point. My fairings are not real tight and do move in a kind
of squishy way. But not much because of the upper and lower fairings. What
do you guys think? Bob N#999RM Do not archive---- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> I'd be interested in this installation also... BTW, Jim, I've been
> advised by other Rocketeers to only attach the fairing at the top and
> let the lower portion slide within the intersection fairing. They are
> so long and the gear moves so far that if you attach it at both ends,
> something has to give........Looking for inputs that work..
> Fred
>
> On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 11:08 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
> >
> > Hey Bob,
> > Could you describe the procedure you used to attach your gear leg
> > fairings? I am about to start mine and my latest input is to let them
> > float over the leg and only attach at top and bottom fairings. Sound
> > reasonable?
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob &
> > Toodie Marshall
> > To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
> >
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
> > <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> >
> > U2 Nelson, Same thing occurs in my rocket, some days the fuel pressure
> > going
> > to the low side 18psi, after about forty hours of that this summer I
> > have
> > concluded its pretty normal ? but after blowing the left gear leg
> > fairing at
> > red line I am not sure anything is normal anymore, lots of funny
> > vibration
> > from that little piece of fairing, it was super cold up here in the
> > high
> > sierras and I wanted to fly on Orville's and Wilber's day and do a few
> > rolls
> > for them, I decided to finish it off with a screaming high speed pass
> > down
> > the runway, I was a little higher than normal for the start, so I
> > pushed
> > the
> > nose over from cruise, for whatever reason I glanced at the indicated
> > A/S
> > and I was approaching red line, so power back and a slight pull on on
> > the
> > stick and wham the fairing let go, gets you attention! One moment of
> > brainfade and you find yourself in a serious situation, like the last
> > discussion, these things really accelerate fast Have fun guys! Bob, N
> > #999RM !----- Original Message -----
> > From: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
> > To: "F1builders list" <f1builders@lists.cc.utexas.edu>; "Rocket-List
> > matronics" <rocket-list@matronics.com>; "Mlfred@aol. com"
> > <Mlfred@aol.com>
> > Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rocket fuel pressure |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
I do indeed have the VM-1000. Rich I think you may be on to the problem or
part of the problem anyway. The sine wave may be interacting with the
refresh rate of the VM1000 tricking it into thinking the pressure is lower
than it really is. The opposite should also be true, and that would explain
the 18-22 psi that is normal ops. I also think the VM1000 displays a time
averaged value (smoothed in engineering speak) for fuel pressure and some of
the other parameters like amps. Have you ever noticed the amps slowly go up
after switching on landing lights, obviously the current jumps instantly,
but the VM responds with a delay, smoothing the value.
Anyway back to the pressure; I'm concluding that what we are seeing is
normal, even if it does not happen every flight, we should run the electric
pump on takeoff and landings just to make sure, and the really low reading
from time to time may just be a combination of things, (rapid change in
ambient pressure, temp changes, and RPM/sine wave interaction) and things
work themselves out after a few minutes so don't get to worried about it.
If all else fails, that's what the electric pump is for.
Thanks everybody
Greg Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Martin
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" <fairlea@execulink.com>
Rich/Greg
I have the VM1000 in my plane as well. I have seen what you are
describing
on two occasions. Both times it was after I had refuelled the plane on a hot
day and then climbed to eight or ten thousand feet. When I levelled off I
got a warning of low fuel pressure. The plane seemed to be running fine and
I turned off the engine monitor and restarted it and the problem was gone.
I suspect a bit of vapour had somehow disrupted the pressure reading.
I do like the VM1000 as the flashing warning display does attract my
attention when it notices something is out of range.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Winnick645@cs.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Winnick645@cs.com
Greg,
Do you have a VM 1000? I regularly see this on my F1. I called vision
microsystems and they indicated that the fuel pressure off the engine driven
pump
fluctuates in a sine wave type pattern and the VM 1000 is sensitive enough
that
it will monitor the highs and lows of the wave pattern. I was a little
skeptical so I installed another engine driven pump... no change. The
engine has
never missed a beat.
F1 #2 Rich Winnick
Message 5
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| Subject: | Gear leg install |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" <fairlea@execulink.com>
Bob
I also use the foam, with success, but I have modified my technique a bit.
I wrap the gear leg and line the faring with packing tape where the foam
goes. This will allow you to remove the farings without having to redo the
foam.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob & Toodie
Marshall
Subject: Rocket-List: Gear leg install
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
<rtmarshall@osb.net>
Rocketeers, I used house insulation foam, the semi expanding kind, that you
would use to stop critters from getting inside and some old packing foam to
keep the foam from going all over the inside of the gear leg. Position the
fairing where you want it, stuff some of the packing foam inside a couple of
inches down and squirt the expanding foam, Mark Fredrick's gets to take
credit for the tips on a way to do this, I am considering wraping the gear
leg about halfway down with a smalll amount of packing foam, even carpet
pad? I think would work, before I reinstall the fairing to lend a little
support at that point. My fairings are not real tight and do move in a kind
of squishy way. But not much because of the upper and lower fairings. What
do you guys think? Bob N#999RM Do not archive---- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Weaver" <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Fred Weaver <mytyweav@earthlink.net>
>
> I'd be interested in this installation also... BTW, Jim, I've been
> advised by other Rocketeers to only attach the fairing at the top and
> let the lower portion slide within the intersection fairing. They are
> so long and the gear moves so far that if you attach it at both ends,
> something has to give........Looking for inputs that work..
> Fred
>
> On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 11:08 AM, Jim Stone wrote:
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
> >
> > Hey Bob,
> > Could you describe the procedure you used to attach your gear leg
> > fairings? I am about to start mine and my latest input is to let them
> > float over the leg and only attach at top and bottom fairings. Sound
> > reasonable?
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob &
> > Toodie Marshall
> > To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
> >
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
> > <rtmarshall@osb.net>
> >
> > U2 Nelson, Same thing occurs in my rocket, some days the fuel pressure
> > going
> > to the low side 18psi, after about forty hours of that this summer I
> > have
> > concluded its pretty normal ? but after blowing the left gear leg
> > fairing at
> > red line I am not sure anything is normal anymore, lots of funny
> > vibration
> > from that little piece of fairing, it was super cold up here in the
> > high
> > sierras and I wanted to fly on Orville's and Wilber's day and do a few
> > rolls
> > for them, I decided to finish it off with a screaming high speed pass
> > down
> > the runway, I was a little higher than normal for the start, so I
> > pushed
> > the
> > nose over from cruise, for whatever reason I glanced at the indicated
> > A/S
> > and I was approaching red line, so power back and a slight pull on on
> > the
> > stick and wham the fairing let go, gets you attention! One moment of
> > brainfade and you find yourself in a serious situation, like the last
> > discussion, these things really accelerate fast Have fun guys! Bob, N
> > #999RM !----- Original Message -----
> > From: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
> > To: "F1builders list" <f1builders@lists.cc.utexas.edu>; "Rocket-List
> > matronics" <rocket-list@matronics.com>; "Mlfred@aol. com"
> > <Mlfred@aol.com>
> > Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket fuel pressure |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Fred Weaver" <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Hey Greg.... Did you ever get the MX 20 installed? If so, how are you
liking it?
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
>
> I do indeed have the VM-1000. Rich I think you may be on to the problem
or
> part of the problem anyway. The sine wave may be interacting with the
> refresh rate of the VM1000 tricking it into thinking the pressure is lower
> than it really is. The opposite should also be true, and that would
explain
> the 18-22 psi that is normal ops. I also think the VM1000 displays a time
> averaged value (smoothed in engineering speak) for fuel pressure and some
of
> the other parameters like amps. Have you ever noticed the amps slowly go
up
> after switching on landing lights, obviously the current jumps instantly,
> but the VM responds with a delay, smoothing the value.
>
> Anyway back to the pressure; I'm concluding that what we are seeing is
> normal, even if it does not happen every flight, we should run the
electric
> pump on takeoff and landings just to make sure, and the really low reading
> from time to time may just be a combination of things, (rapid change in
> ambient pressure, temp changes, and RPM/sine wave interaction) and things
> work themselves out after a few minutes so don't get to worried about it.
> If all else fails, that's what the electric pump is for.
>
> Thanks everybody
>
> Greg Nelson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Martin
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
>
>
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Martin" <fairlea@execulink.com>
>
> Rich/Greg
> I have the VM1000 in my plane as well. I have seen what you are
> describing
> on two occasions. Both times it was after I had refuelled the plane on a
hot
> day and then climbed to eight or ten thousand feet. When I levelled off I
> got a warning of low fuel pressure. The plane seemed to be running fine
and
> I turned off the engine monitor and restarted it and the problem was gone.
> I suspect a bit of vapour had somehow disrupted the pressure reading.
> I do like the VM1000 as the flashing warning display does attract
my
> attention when it notices something is out of range.
>
> Tom Martin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Winnick645@cs.com
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket fuel pressure
>
>
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Winnick645@cs.com
>
> Greg,
> Do you have a VM 1000? I regularly see this on my F1. I called vision
> microsystems and they indicated that the fuel pressure off the engine
driven
> pump
> fluctuates in a sine wave type pattern and the VM 1000 is sensitive enough
> that
> it will monitor the highs and lows of the wave pattern. I was a little
> skeptical so I installed another engine driven pump... no change. The
> engine has
> never missed a beat.
> F1 #2 Rich Winnick
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Starting at about 1:05pm PDT Matronics starting having intermittent
connectivity issues to the Internet. I've called the ISP and they are
looking into the problem and may do intrusive testing on the line at some
point this afternoon/evening. For the most part, things seem to be working
right now, but the line will drop out every once in a while for 2 to 3 minutes.
This problem will effect connections to the Matronics Web server as well as
distribution of List mail.
I will post a follow up when the problem has been resolved... Hopefully
later today.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
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