Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:32 AM - canopy bow drag (Swaney, Mark CAPT NAVAIRWARCENWPNDIV Bldg 36, Rm 2305)
2. 05:36 PM - canopy bow drag (Larry James)
3. 06:38 PM - Re: canopy bow drag (Bill and Janet Asbell)
4. 07:40 PM - Re: canopy bow drag (Denis Walsh)
Message 1
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Swaney, Mark CAPT NAVAIRWARCENWPNDIV Bldg
36, Rm 2305" <mark.swaney@navy.mil>
Seems to me the canopy bow gives you somewhat more of a "roll bar" too, in the
event of an unfortunate event.
Mark Swaney
Time: 07:19:09 PM PST US
From: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
Actually this is one of the lowest pressure areas, but you are correct that
any disturbance there would be bad. I have a slider and I went out of my
way to keep the bump as small as possible, to keep the potential drag
penalty low. I believe I succeeded, as my rocket is one of the fastest out
there. Check out the Reno race results, compare with the other rockets,
just a tad behind John and the impressive HRIII, and better than the other
HRIIs with flip overs.
I think the choice really comes down to better visibility (only marginally)
vrs hanging your arm over the edge on a hot day. The slider is really a nice
addition IMOP for ground operations.
Greg Nelson
N144X
Do not archive.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 06:16:48 PM PST US
From: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
"Rocket List" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
Hi All,
I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy. I was discussing
this with a fellow builder this past week, and he offered that he'd seen
some fluid dynamic data that showed the very crest of the canopy to be one
of the highest pressure areas of the airframe; and therefore any
discontinuity in this area would be very draggy. If this is true, another
point against a slider. Anyone with some experience with this ??
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II fuselage/systems
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 07:19:09 PM PST US
From: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
Actually this is one of the lowest pressure areas, but you are correct that
any disturbance there would be bad. I have a slider and I went out of my
way to keep the bump as small as possible, to keep the potential drag
penalty low. I believe I succeeded, as my rocket is one of the fastest out
there. Check out the Reno race results, compare with the other rockets,
just a tad behind John and the impressive HRIII, and better than the other
HRIIs with flip overs.
I think the choice really comes down to better visibility (only marginally)
vrs hanging your arm over the edge on a hot day. The slider is really a nice
addition IMOP for ground operations.
Greg Nelson
N144X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry James
Subject: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
Hi All,
I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy. I was discussing
this with a fellow builder this past week, and he offered that he'd seen
some fluid dynamic data that showed the very crest of the canopy to be one
of the highest pressure areas of the airframe; and therefore any
discontinuity in this area would be very draggy. If this is true, another
point against a slider. Anyone with some experience with this ??
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II fuselage/systems
Message 2
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"RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
Thanks for the input so far!
Pro's for the tip over:
simple
light
better visibility
easier ingress/egress
Pro's for the slider:
safety in fixed windscreen (thanks Doug)
safety in stronger windscreen (my original reason for exploring this option)
cool factor (well, it does count; doesn't it?)
My reasoning so far goes like this: I think I can build a slider with very
little to no weight penalty to a tip-over; and I like having that fixed
windscreen in case of a bird strike; and I have significantly changed my
cockpit layout such that ingress/egress to the pilot would be fine with the
slider. I also think I can build the canopy bow to minimize visibility
impairment and drag (all composite bow and canopy frame/skirt). So far the
slider is winning. Any more input ??
cheers,
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA HR2 fuselage/systems
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: canopy bow drag |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bill and Janet Asbell" <cottonwood@charter.net>
how much bird do you think is going to make it thru that prop. jets I grant
ya that is a big prob,but from experience just alot of blood,guts,and small
pieces came in to visit me,helluva mess on the windshield.Didn`t even crack
the w/s.
Bill A #32 helper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
>
> Thanks for the input so far!
> Pro's for the tip over:
> simple
> light
> better visibility
> easier ingress/egress
>
> Pro's for the slider:
> safety in fixed windscreen (thanks Doug)
> safety in stronger windscreen (my original reason for exploring this
option)
> cool factor (well, it does count; doesn't it?)
>
> My reasoning so far goes like this: I think I can build a slider with
very
> little to no weight penalty to a tip-over; and I like having that fixed
> windscreen in case of a bird strike; and I have significantly changed my
> cockpit layout such that ingress/egress to the pilot would be fine with
the
> slider. I also think I can build the canopy bow to minimize visibility
> impairment and drag (all composite bow and canopy frame/skirt). So far
the
> slider is winning. Any more input ??
> cheers,
> Larry E. James
> Bellevue, WA HR2 fuselage/systems
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: canopy bow drag |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
On the six My balance sheet was: The tip up is cheaper, faster to
build, less drag, better visibility, lighter and better on ingress.
The slider is harder to build, costlier, worse visibility, more drag,
heavier, harder to get into.
The slider wins the cool factor and leaks less.
ABSOLUTELY NO CONTEST! SLIDER WINS. Asks any one who owns one.
Probably because all the negatives are very small but the cool factor
and the no water leaks on instruments are very large/
Denis
On Jan 11, 2005, at 7:44 PM, Bill and Janet Asbell wrote:
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bill and Janet Asbell"
> <cottonwood@charter.net>
>
> how much bird do you think is going to make it thru that prop. jets I
> grant
> ya that is a big prob,but from experience just alot of blood,guts,and
> small
> pieces came in to visit me,helluva mess on the windshield.Didn`t even
> crack
> the w/s.
> Bill A #32 helper
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
> To: "Rocket List" <rocket-list@matronics.com>; "RV List"
> <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag
>
>
>> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James" <larry@ncproto.com>
>>
>> Thanks for the input so far!
>> Pro's for the tip over:
>> simple
>> light
>> better visibility
>> easier ingress/egress
>>
>> Pro's for the slider:
>> safety in fixed windscreen (thanks Doug)
>> safety in stronger windscreen (my original reason for exploring this
> option)
>> cool factor (well, it does count; doesn't it?)
>>
>> My reasoning so far goes like this: I think I can build a slider with
> very
>> little to no weight penalty to a tip-over; and I like having that
>> fixed
>> windscreen in case of a bird strike; and I have significantly changed
>> my
>> cockpit layout such that ingress/egress to the pilot would be fine
>> with
> the
>> slider. I also think I can build the canopy bow to minimize
>> visibility
>> impairment and drag (all composite bow and canopy frame/skirt). So
>> far
> the
>> slider is winning. Any more input ??
>> cheers,
>> Larry E. James
>> Bellevue, WA HR2 fuselage/systems
>>
>>
>
>
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