Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:51 AM - UK Rocket Website (Lee Armstrong)
2. 11:06 AM - Re: UK Rocket Website (JOHN STARN)
3. 01:16 PM - Re: Lean side of peak running (Tom Gummo)
4. 02:05 PM - Re: Lean side of peak running (nico css)
5. 02:28 PM - Re: Lean side of peak running (jnbolding1)
6. 03:40 PM - Re: Lean side of peak running (Tom Gummo)
7. 03:48 PM - Re: Lean side of peak running (Hr2pilot@aol.com)
8. 04:00 PM - Re: UK Rocket Website (Dorothy Ruschke)
9. 04:57 PM - Hot starts, Was: Lean side of peak running (Wernerworld)
10. 06:22 PM - Hot starts (nico css)
11. 06:28 PM - Re: Hot starts (A1AVIATON@aol.com)
12. 07:18 PM - Re: Hot starts (Dan Checkoway)
Message 1
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| Subject: | UK Rocket Website |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Lee Armstrong <kevin@bondedcomponents.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi guys,
I've posted a couple of times on here for the odd bit of info and help,
and as part of a thanks and 'cos it might be of interest, i've knocked
up a site for my fathers Rocket. Its gots some nice pics of it more or
less finished and a few pics in build, the odd link and a few other
snippets of info.
http://www.bondedcomponents.co.uk/rocket/
Enjoy,
Lee
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: UK Rocket Website |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Thank for the photo's and "knocking up" the site 8*). If it flys half as
good as it looks it must be great. But then aren't all Rockets. My wife just
returned from London Wednesday and now says I have to go as she has seen the
museums and needs someone to tote the luggage. KABONG HRII N561FS Do Not
Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Armstrong" <kevin@bondedcomponents.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Rocket-List: UK Rocket Website
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Lee Armstrong
> <kevin@bondedcomponents.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I've posted a couple of times on here for the odd bit of info and help,
> and as part of a thanks and 'cos it might be of interest, i've knocked
> up a site for my fathers Rocket. Its gots some nice pics of it more or
> less finished and a few pics in build, the odd link and a few other
> snippets of info.
>
> http://www.bondedcomponents.co.uk/rocket/
>
> Enjoy,
> Lee
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lean side of peak running |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
OH wise one,
Teach me how to start my IO-540 when it is hot.
Tom
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "H PAINE" <bluebird266@dslextreme.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Lean side of peak running
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: H PAINE <bluebird266@dslextreme.com>
>
> After about two months of intermittent test I finally archived the desired
> results. Working with Don Rivera at Airflow Performance and changing the
> injector nozzles to the size that evened out the cylinders Egt peak within
> .2 GPH. He would make recommendations based upon fuel flow and EGT data
> that I gave to him about five different times.
> Here are the results
>
> at 21.5"MP and 22OO RPM at 8500 to 10500 between 8.5 GPH and 10 GPH that
> good but for you rocket drivers with High CHT on these summer days listen
> to this!!
>
> Took off form Lamar Col on the hottest day in recorded history for that
> area AWOS said 104F at 3700 ft
> OAT digital thermometer said 117 degrees or 45C for you metric folks was
> surprised to get bluebird started after heat soaking for 1/2 hour but to
> date I have not failed to hot start on first try for two years now and
> that
> my friends was the ultimate test! Took off fully loaded and did slow 1000
> fpm climb to 7500 ft before CHT hit 430 oil 220 leveled off and
> stablelized
> settings to 21.5 "MP and 2200 RPM then proceeded to Go to lean of peak
> about 50 F and watched the CHT's drop to 370 F and oil down to 180
> as Vince would say Wahoo!!! First time bluebird has run so cool or yeah it
> was still indicating 99F oat
> at 7500. After that I just maintained that MP pressure as long as possible
> slowly step climbing to
> 15500 and sucking on the nose tube. Yes TAS is slower but not by much
> about
> 170Kts.
>
> More on my Hot start procedure later
>
> Harry Paine
> 266HP 360 hrs
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lean side of peak running |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Tom,
You might know this already, but I always flooded hot Lycomings and then
proceeded the startup with fuel cut off and throttle to the wall. It takes a
bit of practice to acquire the knack. I found that flooding the engine
circulates cooler fuel through the fuel system and gets airlocks and other
mysteries out of the system that comes with a hot engine. It cranks a while
but it always fired up.
The theory, so I believe, is that if you flood the engine, then crank it
with fuel cutoff and fully opened throttle, it is inescapable that there
must come a time when the fuel/air mixture is exactly right and then it will
fire, no exceptions. The trick is to maintain sufficient fuel flow with a
combination of mixture lever and boost pump, to sustain the startup once the
first cylinder fires.
For what it's worth.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Lean side of peak running
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
>
> OH wise one,
>
> Teach me how to start my IO-540 when it is hot.
>
> Tom
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "H PAINE" <bluebird266@dslextreme.com>
> To: "Boyd C. Braem" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: Lean side of peak running
>
>
> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: H PAINE <bluebird266@dslextreme.com>
> >
> > After about two months of intermittent test I finally archived the
desired
> > results. Working with Don Rivera at Airflow Performance and changing the
> > injector nozzles to the size that evened out the cylinders Egt peak
within
> > .2 GPH. He would make recommendations based upon fuel flow and EGT data
> > that I gave to him about five different times.
> > Here are the results
> >
> > at 21.5"MP and 22OO RPM at 8500 to 10500 between 8.5 GPH and 10 GPH that
> > good but for you rocket drivers with High CHT on these summer days
listen
> > to this!!
> >
> > Took off form Lamar Col on the hottest day in recorded history for that
> > area AWOS said 104F at 3700 ft
> > OAT digital thermometer said 117 degrees or 45C for you metric folks was
> > surprised to get bluebird started after heat soaking for 1/2 hour but to
> > date I have not failed to hot start on first try for two years now and
> > that
> > my friends was the ultimate test! Took off fully loaded and did slow
1000
> > fpm climb to 7500 ft before CHT hit 430 oil 220 leveled off and
> > stablelized
> > settings to 21.5 "MP and 2200 RPM then proceeded to Go to lean of peak
> > about 50 F and watched the CHT's drop to 370 F and oil down to 180
> > as Vince would say Wahoo!!! First time bluebird has run so cool or yeah
it
> > was still indicating 99F oat
> > at 7500. After that I just maintained that MP pressure as long as
possible
> > slowly step climbing to
> > 15500 and sucking on the nose tube. Yes TAS is slower but not by much
> > about
> > 170Kts.
> >
> > More on my Hot start procedure later
> >
> > Harry Paine
> > 266HP 360 hrs
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lean side of peak running |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
Tom,
>You might know this already, but I always flooded hot Lycomings and then
>proceeded the startup with fuel cut off and throttle to the wall. It takes a
>bit of practice to acquire the knack. I found that flooding the engine
>circulates cooler fuel through the fuel system and gets airlocks and other
>mysteries out of the system that comes with a hot engine. It cranks a while
>but it always fired up.
>
>The theory, so I believe, is that if you flood the engine, then crank it
>with fuel cutoff and fully opened throttle, it is inescapable that there
>must come a time when the fuel/air mixture is exactly right and then it will
>fire, no exceptions. The trick is to maintain sufficient fuel flow with a
>combination of mixture lever and boost pump, to sustain the startup once the
>first cylinder fires.
>
>For what it's worth.
>Nico
Used the same technique on my Seabee with IGO-480 and worked every time. John
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lean side of peak running |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
Thanks Nico,
I don't flood the engine for a hot start but like you start with the
throttle wide open and the fuel cut off. But I have a MT prop and unlike
the Hartzel, it spins up really fast. Therefore, when the engine starts the
RPM increases rapidly and the planes wants to taxi forward. It is do able
but I have to watch out as I don't want the plane on its nose.
Therefore, if Harry has another system, I will give it a try.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Lean side of peak running
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Tom,
> You might know this already, but I always flooded hot Lycomings and then
> proceeded the startup with fuel cut off and throttle to the wall. It takes
> a
> bit of practice to acquire the knack. I found that flooding the engine
> circulates cooler fuel through the fuel system and gets airlocks and other
> mysteries out of the system that comes with a hot engine. It cranks a
> while
> but it always fired up.
>
> The theory, so I believe, is that if you flood the engine, then crank it
> with fuel cutoff and fully opened throttle, it is inescapable that there
> must come a time when the fuel/air mixture is exactly right and then it
> will
> fire, no exceptions. The trick is to maintain sufficient fuel flow with a
> combination of mixture lever and boost pump, to sustain the startup once
> the
> first cylinder fires.
>
> For what it's worth.
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> To: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Lean side of peak running
>
>
>> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
>>
>> OH wise one,
>>
>> Teach me how to start my IO-540 when it is hot.
>>
>> Tom
>> do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "H PAINE" <bluebird266@dslextreme.com>
>> To: "Boyd C. Braem" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Rocket-List: Lean side of peak running
>>
>>
>> > --> Rocket-List message posted by: H PAINE <bluebird266@dslextreme.com>
>> >
>> > After about two months of intermittent test I finally archived the
> desired
>> > results. Working with Don Rivera at Airflow Performance and changing
>> > the
>> > injector nozzles to the size that evened out the cylinders Egt peak
> within
>> > .2 GPH. He would make recommendations based upon fuel flow and EGT data
>> > that I gave to him about five different times.
>> > Here are the results
>> >
>> > at 21.5"MP and 22OO RPM at 8500 to 10500 between 8.5 GPH and 10 GPH
>> > that
>> > good but for you rocket drivers with High CHT on these summer days
> listen
>> > to this!!
>> >
>> > Took off form Lamar Col on the hottest day in recorded history for that
>> > area AWOS said 104F at 3700 ft
>> > OAT digital thermometer said 117 degrees or 45C for you metric folks
>> > was
>> > surprised to get bluebird started after heat soaking for 1/2 hour but
>> > to
>> > date I have not failed to hot start on first try for two years now and
>> > that
>> > my friends was the ultimate test! Took off fully loaded and did slow
> 1000
>> > fpm climb to 7500 ft before CHT hit 430 oil 220 leveled off and
>> > stablelized
>> > settings to 21.5 "MP and 2200 RPM then proceeded to Go to lean of peak
>> > about 50 F and watched the CHT's drop to 370 F and oil down to 180
>> > as Vince would say Wahoo!!! First time bluebird has run so cool or yeah
> it
>> > was still indicating 99F oat
>> > at 7500. After that I just maintained that MP pressure as long as
> possible
>> > slowly step climbing to
>> > 15500 and sucking on the nose tube. Yes TAS is slower but not by much
>> > about
>> > 170Kts.
>> >
>> > More on my Hot start procedure later
>> >
>> > Harry Paine
>> > 266HP 360 hrs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lean side of peak running |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Hr2pilot@aol.com
You should try it with 12 to 1 compression.
John
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: UK Rocket Website |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Dorothy Ruschke" <gdrus@indianvalley.com>
Nice looking Rocket. Congratulations.
Gerry Ruschke
N54GD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Armstrong" <kevin@bondedcomponents.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Rocket-List: UK Rocket Website
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Lee Armstrong
> <kevin@bondedcomponents.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I've posted a couple of times on here for the odd bit of info and help,
> and as part of a thanks and 'cos it might be of interest, i've knocked
> up a site for my fathers Rocket. Its gots some nice pics of it more or
> less finished and a few pics in build, the odd link and a few other
> snippets of info.
>
> http://www.bondedcomponents.co.uk/rocket/
>
> Enjoy,
> Lee
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Hot starts, Was: Lean side of peak running |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Wernerworld" <russ@wernerworld.com>
Here's another hot start technique. I had tried many different ones, but
the one thing that scared the shit out of me was the chance of fire. Many
advocate using the "flooded engine" method of full throttle and mixture at
cutoff.
I've been told of another technique that seems to work even better:
Give the hot engine about 1 second of prime, crazy as is sounds. Put the
mixture to cutoff. Crack the throttle and start cranking. As the engine
cranks, slowly bring the mixture forward and it will fire every time (for
me) on the way up. When it does, it does it nice and gently, unlike the
full throttle method. I've been using this for a month and it seems to work
EVERY time.
As for flooding the engine before trying the start, I quit this one after
someone told me about the ball of fire I spit from the exhaust while trying
to get it started! Rolled all the way down the belly! Nice way to light up
your plane, your airport, or more!
Russ
HRII
Message 10
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Russ,
I agree. There is a lot of hot avgas pouring out the overflow, so the
fireballs do seem to show up with that technique. However, to date I have
not heard of a single fire as a result of this. I may be uniformed.
I once was privileged to attend a Bob Hoover show and an Aero Commander had
a hard time starting up (not Bob). We were on a balcony right above the 500B
and the fireballs that came out on top of the wing were just scary. The
pilot could not get the engines going and had to abandon wherever he was
going, perhaps much to his embarrassment.
The technique you describe works on Continentals, except the throttle is
advanced slowly. If I remember correctly, the Centurion and C206 family
Cessnas had the fuel pump activated when the throttle was advanced, and it
is this that made the Continental technique work well, hot or cold. Once I
had a hard time firing up a 310 and there was nothing we could do to even
get a beat out of the engines. Maybe the Continentals got pissed off that we
tried Lycoming techniques on them. Who knows.
I can imagine that your technique would work since the shot of fuel would
set up fuel pressure which is slowly released as the mixture is advanced,
basically causing the ideal circumstances for combustion at any point during
the fuel release. The flooded method uses the reverse of this process by
having excess fuel evaporate until the ideal circumstances occur. Whether
your technique would work with a vapor lock is not clear, but if it works
without scaring the pilot into soiling his pants immediately before a
flight, it is a distinct advantage. :-)
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wernerworld" <russ@wernerworld.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Hot starts, Was: Lean side of peak running
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Wernerworld" <russ@wernerworld.com>
>
> Here's another hot start technique. I had tried many different ones, but
> the one thing that scared the shit out of me was the chance of fire. Many
> advocate using the "flooded engine" method of full throttle and mixture at
> cutoff.
>
> I've been told of another technique that seems to work even better:
>
> Give the hot engine about 1 second of prime, crazy as is sounds. Put the
> mixture to cutoff. Crack the throttle and start cranking. As the engine
> cranks, slowly bring the mixture forward and it will fire every time (for
> me) on the way up. When it does, it does it nice and gently, unlike the
> full throttle method. I've been using this for a month and it seems to
work
> EVERY time.
>
> As for flooding the engine before trying the start, I quit this one after
> someone told me about the ball of fire I spit from the exhaust while
trying
> to get it started! Rolled all the way down the belly! Nice way to light
up
> your plane, your airport, or more!
>
> Russ
> HRII
>
Tom,
You might know this already, but I always flooded hot Lycomings and then
proceeded the startup with fuel cut off and throttle to the wall. It takes a
bit of practice to acquire the knack. I found that flooding the engine
circulates cooler fuel through the fuel system and gets airlocks and other
mysteries out of the system that comes with a hot engine. It cranks a while
but it always fired up.
The theory, so I believe, is that if you flood the engine, then crank it
with fuel cutoff and fully opened throttle, it is inescapable that there
must come a time when the fuel/air mixture is exactly right and then it will
fire, no exceptions. The trick is to maintain sufficient fuel flow with a
combination of mixture lever and boost pump, to sustain the startup once the
first cylinder fires.
For what it's worth.
Nico
Message 11
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: A1AVIATON@aol.com
TRY A SLICK START, AND SHUT THE ENGINE OFF WITH WITH THE IGN. SWITCH, USE
MIX, AND THROTTLE AS PER WHAT WORKS FOR YOUR ENG. AND WORK AS AN A&P FOR 35
YEARS, MIKE HRII, N212MR
Message 12
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--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Also consider using a purge valve like the one Airflow Performance makes.
This summer I've been using it on just about every hot start. Makes a huge
difference in my case to have fresh, cool fuel circulated before trying to
start up when the OAT gauge reads over 100F and you can still see the heat
coming out of the cowl inlets.
The concept is that the purge valve diverts fuel right before the flow
divider. The diverted fuel is sent back to the tank. The engine is
actually shut down using the purge valve -- completely cutting off fuel to
the flow divider -- instead of the conventional method of just pulling the
mixture.
On startup, the purge valve is still in the purge position (the way it was
shut down). I push the throttle and mixture all the way forward and run the
boost pump for 30 seconds. I watch the fuel flow, which typically
stabilizes around 3.5-3.8 gph. This circulates cool fuel through the system
and purges all the vapor. After 30 seconds or so, purge valve in the run
position, mixture to cutoff, throttle back to just barely cracked open.
Start it up like it's cold.
Photo of the purge valve:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030620_purge_valve2.jpg
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (589 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <A1AVIATON@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Hot starts
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: A1AVIATON@aol.com
>
> TRY A SLICK START, AND SHUT THE ENGINE OFF WITH WITH THE IGN. SWITCH, USE
> MIX, AND THROTTLE AS PER WHAT WORKS FOR YOUR ENG. AND WORK AS AN A&P FOR
> 35
> YEARS, MIKE HRII, N212MR
>
>
>
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