Today's Message Index:
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1. 02:57 PM - Some basic F1 kit questions... (Ken Balch)
2. 07:35 PM - Re: Some basic F1 kit questions... (A1AVIATON@aol.com)
3. 10:05 PM - Re: Some basic F1 kit questions... (u2nelson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Some basic F1 kit questions... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Ken Balch <kbalch@cfl.rr.com>
Hello All,
I well remember how valuable the RV-list was during the construction of
my RV-8 a few years back and I'm hoping to find the same sort of
fellowship and technical resource in the Rocket community. I'm strongly
considering the F1 as my next project and I have a number of general
questions. Rather than bothering Mark F. at this point (since my kit
purchase is still at least six months away), I thought I'd address them
to the collective wisdom of the list. In no particular order:
- How do the F1 plans & instruction manual compare to current RV materials?
- How do the F1 kit parts compare to current RV materials? Are all
steel parts powdercoated? Are skins prepunched? How would current
builders assess the quality of the qb kits? Any consistent areas of
concern?
- How would current F1 builders characterize factory support,
availability & willingness to provide assistance if/when necessary?
- Have any F1 wings (standard or EVO) been subjected to actual testing
(with sand/shot bags) to ultimate loads, or do the published limits
represent calculated values only?
- How many planes are currently flying with the EVO wing? What real
performance benefits can be expected with the EVO wing?
- Can anyone provide w&b data sufficient for me to model the aircraft
and perform some 'what if' calculations for my own anticipated loadings?
- How sensitive is the plane to variations in c.g., particularly with
the EVO wing?
- How nose heavy does the airplane feel in flight? Is most of the
nose-down trim needed for level flight? Is the elevator authority
sufficient for a good flare to the three-point attitude, or are most
people wheeling it on?
- Is the plane's handling solid & predictable at pattern speeds, ala the
RV series?
- Are the trim servos a good match for the F1's performance range? Not
too fast at high speed or too slow at pattern speeds?
- Does the control feel stiffen substantially at higher speeds, or is it
fairly consistent throughout the entire speed envelope?
- Is the plane good to +6/-3g at 2000 pounds, or is there a lower
aerobatic gross weight?
- Which model(s) of the -540 are builders typically using?
- How does the F1's control feel & responsiveness (especially roll rate)
compare to the RV-8's?
- Can anyone provide a full list of applicable V speeds for the F1?
- Can anyone provide some actual performance figures for, say, a 300hp F1?
That's all I've got off the top of my head at the moment, though more is
sure to follow. Once I get a little closer to making the commitment to
the project, I'll have to start looking for an F1 demo flight. For now,
I'll keep scouring the net for every builder's website I can find.
Regards,
Ken Balch
RV-8 N118KB (sold)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Some basic F1 kit questions... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: A1AVIATON@aol.com
THE ONES I HAVE SEEN POOR SHEET METAL WORK ON QUICK BUILD, CALL JOHN H AND GO
FLY HRII, YOU WILL LIKE IT, MIKE HR-N212HR
Message 3
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| Subject: | Some basic F1 kit questions... |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "u2nelson" <u2nelson@prodigy.net>
Check out the awards at Oshkosh 05, Outstanding workmanship award, F-1
Rocket out of Stockton CA. The F-1's I have seen are beautiful and the
later kits are even better. The EVO wing looks like it belongs on a
business jet, very well built and designed and appears very solid. There is
nothing wrong with the sheet metal work on the F-1 series. Professional
engeneering has been accomplished on the Rockets, I'm not sure loading a AL
wing with sand bags proves anything other than it held umpteen sand bags
once, there is so much more to it than that anyway. ACRO 6 G is at a
reduced weight, 1700LBs I think, but who really needs 6 Gs. 4 is plenty for
everything that these airplanes need.
Real world performance is solid 200 knot(230MPH) cruise at 11GPH for a 300HP
F-1 fat wing, faster if you want to burn more, but that is not usually worth
it. Top speed is typically 220 knots, with a VNE of 240Knots. EVO is
slightly faster but not by much. The vertical component of the performance
envelope is what will set these rockets apart from the RVs, but they still
have all the nice handling qualities the RVs are famous for. Roll rates are
higher in the rockets, 200 deg/sec compared with RVs that are about
140-160/sec. Ground handling is typical tail dragger, but with very springy
gear so low sink rate landings are a must. If you like the way a -8 handles
you will like the rockets better, they are better in every regard. Slider
canopy on the F-1s, flip over on the HRII, although the slider can be
adapted to the HRII. F-1's may be slightly faster than a similarly equipped
HRII, but this appears to be only about a 5-10 Knot difference. Passenger
and baggage loading is usually not a factor as the ships start out with the
CG far forward when solo, and it moves aft with the load, but I can carry
just about anything I can stuff into it with out worry. I use standard MAC
trim servos with no speed reducers and found the rate to be just fine as is.
I can trim the entire speed envelope solo,(worst case) including down to
approach speed, so no problems there.
Bottom line, a F-1 QB will cost you about triple up front for the kit, vr
HRII kit but the finished airplane cost difference will not be as dramatic
as everything that goes in the ships is the same. Compared to an RV it
really doesn't cost any more to build a HRII than it would an RV-8, but the
finished airplane is far superior than a RV-8. It really depends on your
budget and your time, and to some extent your skill level. The support is
excellent from both John H. or Mark F., so I would not worry about that
either way. I think it would cost around 110-130 big ones for a F-1 and a
HRII could probably be built for around 75-95, that is total cost ready to
fly with reasonable VFR instruments and a 30K engine.
Greg Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
A1AVIATON@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Some basic F1 kit questions...
--> Rocket-List message posted by: A1AVIATON@aol.com
THE ONES I HAVE SEEN POOR SHEET METAL WORK ON QUICK BUILD, CALL JOHN H AND
GO
FLY HRII, YOU WILL LIKE IT, MIKE HR-N212HR
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