Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: HRList... Vx Vy, placards...more? (blairclan)
2. 06:57 AM - Empenage fairing (Frazier, Vincent A)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: Re:Performance and Cert (Russ)
4. 08:27 AM - Re: Empenage fairing (Ron Carter)
5. 09:36 AM - Re: Re:Performance and Cert (Milt)
6. 03:14 PM - Re: Re:Performance and Cert (jnbolding1)
7. 03:37 PM - Re: Re:Performance and Cert (Hr2pilot@aol.com)
8. 04:39 PM - Re: Empenage fairing (Morocketman@aol.com)
9. 04:54 PM - Re: Re:Performance and Cert (Morocketman@aol.com)
10. 05:06 PM - Re: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans (JOHN STARN)
11. 06:25 PM - Re: Re:Performance and Cert (nico css)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: HRList... Vx Vy, placards...more? |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "blairclan" <blairclan@bigpond.com>
I can squeeze 105 Litres in each tank and the unusable fuel is about
none!
Anything less than 1500 ft runway is going to make you sweat each
landing.
You can do less but I wouldn't want the pressure for every landing.
Cheers
Tony Blair
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JOHNTMEY@aol.com
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: HRList... Vx Vy, placards...more?
--> Rocket-List message posted by: JOHNTMEY@aol.com
Listers....good thread recently.
Mine's about flight ready. I'm trying to nail down some things for my
brain
to rehearse before 1st flight. Also making a rudimentary Airplane
Flight
Manual. Making placards too.
1. John (or others), what is the fuel capacity with bigger tanks ?
2. Anyone know the unusable fuel value ?
3. Insurance. I know the general protocol on insurance ... just
wondering
what the current rates and rules are ?
Who is a good agent? I can show reasonable currency and tailwheel
recency
in Cubs, Champs, Luscombe, PT22.
4. What is the customary, assigned local flight time limit assigned by
the
DAR ?
5. When you'all are looking at landing your beauty at a boondock
destination, paved airstrip, what is the shortest, narrowist strip you
would consider ?
Maybe that's a hard question to put numbers upon... how about same
question
relative to the usually quoted landing distance over a 50' obstacle,
zero
wind, moderate braking.?
Many thanks for any replies.
John Meyers HRII N5800 sn 233 do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Empenage fairing |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
Bryan,
I have made both all aluminum and all fiberglass RV-4/Rocket empenage
fairings. I copied what I did off of others that I saw at Oshkosh.
You can use flat wrapped aluminum, U-section rubber moulding, etc. to
make an all aluminum tail fairing. It's a heckuva lot less work than
fiberglass and it won't warp. But it can be tricky to get the aluminum
to do want you want on the first, second or third try. But it can
definitely be done.
Make some patterns out of shoebox cardboard and go wild.
My fairings required 9 pieces. One piece for each leading edge. Two
sides pieces and two aft parts. And two thin fillers below the HS.
The rubber moulding isn't required if you do it right. But it can be
handy to fill small gaps below the HS.
Good luck,
Vince
Time: 09:28:43 AM PST US
From: "Bryan Carr" <b.m.carr@telus.net>
Subject: Rocket-List: Empenage fairing
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bryan Carr" <b.m.carr@telus.net>
What is the best fitting empennage fairing for the Harmon Rocket 2?
I hate fiberglassing.
Bryan Carr
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re:Performance and Cert |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Russ <russ@wernerworld.com>
Some misc. thoughts on the subject:
I know some who are comfortable with shorter and more narrow runways than
me, but I find several things to be challenging in the Rocket. Runways
narrower than 50 feet don't allow much to see when the tail comes down.
Wheel landings help, but I can stop the plane much faster with a nearly 3
point landing. Wheeling onto a 1500 paved runway would be tough for me.
Slow, power-on approaches work best for me on short runways. Power comes
off AFTER breaking the descent.
Guys are getting insurance for the first flights IF they have some quality,
relative aircraft type time. Often they need time in type.
Rates. My first year was 3700 with 130 hull. Just renewed and changed
companies and got it for 2900 through Global. I had 250 tailwheel and
15000 total. At renewal I had 475 tailwheel with 230 in an HRII. RV time
helps.
Fuel. With experience it is easy to average burns well below 15 gph. It's
a bit harder during testing and break-in.
Most important:
A one buck increase in the price of gas will increase your per-hour cost to
fly by 10-12 bucks an hour. That won't keep most of us out of our birds!
Russ
...... Original Message .......
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:34:22 EDT JOHNTMEY@aol.com wrote:
>--> Rocket-List message posted by: JOHNTMEY@aol.com
>
>Wow, good information.
>
>I weigh about 150 and should have a middleweight airframe.
>
>Home airstrip is 1600' paved with 500' solid grassy smooth runout. Paved
>about 35' wide and has 80' trees at one end.
>
>I won't try landing there until well-practiced. Wheel landings are my
>favorite mode. Complex is current. Guess I will see what the insurers say.
>
>Can one get any coverage in the flight test phase ?
>
>My engine is re-built as a C4B5 but is undoc-ed and logless. Guess that's
>experimental. Let's see... 40 hours at 15 gph x $10/gallon equals... gulp *
>
>John Meyers do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Empenage fairing |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Ron Carter" <ronc@metropolisdesign.com>
Why do you hate fiberglass?
It dosent hate you?
Why do all you rv metal heads hate 'glass? Treat it like the high accuracy
precision material it wants to be and you will have a lot more success.
Here are a few pointers:
1. Use a sharpie marker to lay out the outline of the piece you are laying
up. Cut the glass an inch or more beyond the trim lines you just drew.
2. Get the tail surfaces and intersection areas formed up in clay and get
them precise before getting resin any where near them.
3. Use clear packing tape as a release agent. Lay it down smooth and
wrinkle free. Then add carnuba(wood floor) wax coats, 3-5 typically.
4. Use very, very light coats of spray adhesive to hold the cloth in place
on the form. This works like magic.
5. After that, and only after the glass is exactly how you want it, when
it is done - add resin. At this point what you see is what you will get. You
will not get good results by adding resin. Resin will complicate things not
simplify, hide, or smooth things out.
By far the spray adhesive is the best trick I have ever found in 30 years of
glassin' to make glass work tolerable. Treat the materials with attention,
respect, accuracy, work clean, and you will be rewarded with excellent
results.
Be nice to fiberglass and it will be nice to you. If you feel the yang. . .
. or , uh, itch. You arent doing it right.
Ron Carter
HR2 #49 517 ttsn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Carr" <b.m.carr@telus.net>
Subject: Rocket-List: Empenage fairing
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Bryan Carr" <b.m.carr@telus.net>
>
> What is the best fitting empennage fairing for the Harmon Rocket 2?
> I hate fiberglassing.
> Bryan Carr
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re:Performance and Cert |
RPD=4.00.0003;
RPDID=303030312E30413039303230332E34333334324244412E303037362D412D;
ENG=IBF; TS=20050923163620; CAT=NONE; CON=NONE;
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "Milt" <rocket@swmrmc.org>
Wow! never expected this much of a response esp ; Airgasms excellent
dissertation on speeds.
I have been using 90KTS VX, 120 VY and 110-120 Best glide. Not for any
scientific reason but because they feel good. The caveat is I have a Blue
Mountain EFIS. I have never seen one register anything other than 35KTS when
sitting still. Below 100KTS mine is grossly innacurate and my IAS at stall
is 67 KTS Vsi and
62KTS Vso. Like Les climbing off the deck at 1.2 Vsi is an angle I find
uncomfortable in the event of engine failure.
I frequently fly into a 2000' grass strip over 70'+ trees approx 200 feet
off the approach end of the runway. Come in steep at 90 KIAS (on my BluMntn)
the numbers at about 75-80KIAS. (I usually stall before I can 3 point it).
If all goes well I can usually get stopped at about the halfway point. Not
too infrequently it doesn't all go well and I end up going around which
isn't a problem as there are no obstacles at the departure end.
Coming in from the other end I use a flatter approach otherwise the same .
On occasion I have botched this and the go around over the trees has not
been a problem. After 200+ hours my landings still need work. Maybe at
1000hrs I will become consistent
I asked the question originally because on my maiden cross country I lost
power and had to put down on a short grass strip with not much more than
idle power. It was not a pretty landing.
It appears a contaminent had gotten into the fuel and the screen in the
throttle body had varnished over as if it had beenrunning on Mogas.
Next day I went out and spent an hour practicing deadstick approaches (not
landings) and I have come to the conclusion that the sink rate at any
airspeed is such that you can probably walk away from the landing but will
probably be doing some repairs.
Has anyone put one of these on the ground absolutely powerless?
Insurance!!!!ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!
I only have about 500hrs taildragger time about 260 of that in the Rocket.
90% of my time is in twins. With a com, inst, me and cfi tickets the best
quote I could get for 110K hull value was $4800. I have settled for ground
only not in motion ins and it is $3200.
If I didn't think the Rocket was better than sex and wasn't addicted to it I
would move to an RV 8 just because of insurance. But alas I am infected with
Rocket fever.
Canopy parts arrived yesterday. Hopefully I'll be back in the air in a month
or so.
Milt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ" <russ@wernerworld.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re:Performance and Cert
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Russ <russ@wernerworld.com>
>
> Some misc. thoughts on the subject:
>
> I know some who are comfortable with shorter and more narrow runways than
> me, but I find several things to be challenging in the Rocket. Runways
> narrower than 50 feet don't allow much to see when the tail comes down.
> Wheel landings help, but I can stop the plane much faster with a nearly 3
> point landing. Wheeling onto a 1500 paved runway would be tough for me.
> Slow, power-on approaches work best for me on short runways. Power comes
> off AFTER breaking the descent.
>
> Guys are getting insurance for the first flights IF they have some
quality,
> relative aircraft type time. Often they need time in type.
>
> Rates. My first year was 3700 with 130 hull. Just renewed and changed
> companies and got it for 2900 through Global. I had 250 tailwheel and
> 15000 total. At renewal I had 475 tailwheel with 230 in an HRII. RV time
> helps.
>
> Fuel. With experience it is easy to average burns well below 15 gph.
It's
> a bit harder during testing and break-in.
>
> Most important:
> A one buck increase in the price of gas will increase your per-hour cost
to
> fly by 10-12 bucks an hour. That won't keep most of us out of our birds!
>
> Russ
>
>
> ...... Original Message .......
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:34:22 EDT JOHNTMEY@aol.com wrote:
> >--> Rocket-List message posted by: JOHNTMEY@aol.com
> >
> >Wow, good information.
> >
> >I weigh about 150 and should have a middleweight airframe.
> >
> >Home airstrip is 1600' paved with 500' solid grassy smooth runout.
Paved
> >about 35' wide and has 80' trees at one end.
> >
> >I won't try landing there until well-practiced. Wheel landings are my
> >favorite mode. Complex is current. Guess I will see what the insurers
say.
> >
> >Can one get any coverage in the flight test phase ?
> >
> >My engine is re-built as a C4B5 but is undoc-ed and logless. Guess
that's
> >experimental. Let's see... 40 hours at 15 gph x $10/gallon equals...
gulp *
> >
> >John Meyers do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re:Performance and Cert |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>Next day I went out and spent an hour practicing deadstick approaches (not
>landings) and I have come to the conclusion that the sink rate at any
>airspeed is such that you can probably walk away from the landing but will
>probably be doing some repairs.
>
>Has anyone put one of these on the ground absolutely powerless?
Not a Rocket but I did an RV3, Had about 1700 hrs on the airplane and thought
I knew it pretty well but was AMAZED at the difference in sink rate at idle power
and sink rate with the prop stopped. John Bolding
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re:Performance and Cert |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Hr2pilot@aol.com
You do the PRS at Reno and you have to demo your skills which includes a
dead stick landing.
John
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Empenage fairing |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Morocketman@aol.com
Ron, You just explained better than any of us ever could; "why do we hate
fiberglass!" Thank you, One who knows!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re:Performance and Cert |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: Morocketman@aol.com
Airspeed is your friend! Having said that, "I hope none of you ever, EVER,
have to remember that! But when it get's quiet, remember my
voice..............AIRSPEED IS YOUR FRIEND! Please fly is "the way it feel's"
and not the
way the book says. Les
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
RE: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vansSeveral years ago I took a ride
at Bakersfield, it was most expensive "FREE" $100,000 ride ever. BUT it was
(and is) worth every penny. No pre-punched, No pre-drilled. No pre-measured,
No perfect plans, Build your own jig nor any QB stuff either.
In the words of the great John Harmon: "Just build the damn thing". 8*)
HRII N561FS 270 hs & counting.
Waiting for a look at the LSA RV-12.
KABONG Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans
I have taken 5 builders or prospective builders for flights. I can tell you the
feeling of putting the stick in your hand and actually flying the RV10 for
30 min. or so is a real kick. Randy
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re:Performance and Cert |
--> Rocket-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
I agree. There is, however, a legitimate argument about having too much
speed, as opposed to altitude, when losing the engine on takeoff. I tend to
fly like you do, Les, having a safe cushion of airspeed above the vairous
speeds on takeoff, especially vmc in me aircraft.
I should, one day, see what you guys are getting all worked up about flying
the Rockets.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <Morocketman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re:Performance and Cert
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: Morocketman@aol.com
>
> Airspeed is your friend! Having said that, "I hope none of you ever,
EVER,
> have to remember that! But when it get's quiet, remember my
> voice..............AIRSPEED IS YOUR FRIEND! Please fly is "the way it
feel's" and not the
> way the book says. Les
>
>
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