---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/04/06: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:36 AM - .Preaching to the choir...again (JOHN STARN) 2. 07:49 AM - Re: .Preaching to the choir...again (nico css) 3. 09:36 AM - Re: .Preaching to the choir...again (Tom Gummo) 4. 09:48 AM - Re: .Preaching to the choir...again (Fred Weaver) 5. 09:58 AM - Re: .Preaching to the choir...again (JOHN STARN) 6. 10:00 AM - Aluminum spinner (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 7. 10:26 AM - Re: .Preaching to the choir...again (nico css) 8. 12:47 PM - Re: Aluminum spinner (Kevin Shannon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:05 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again I think I posted my first "tie the tail down", "go very easy on the brakes" warnings about 6 years ago & have repeated it every so often. RV tail draggers WILL, not might, not could, but WILL nose over at high RPM and/or C/S prop runups with the proper conditions. RV noseovers, retractable gear up & groundlooping a Champ all fall into the category "Those who have & those who will". KABONG Do Not Archive...It's in there several times already. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:29 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail lifting during full power static test > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Probably good advice to anyone that is not comfortable doing it. As I >> Meant to reply to this thread sooner but this advice should never be >> forgotten!!! >> I have a -6 with 160 HP fixed pitch and learnt the hard way! >> During run up to 2000rpm, stick right back, a gust of wind fron the side >> removed the prop wash and any down force I might have had to keep my tail >> on the ground and -you guessed it - KABOOM. I had my hand on the throttle >> and chopped the engine immediately but over she went!! New prop, engine >> strip and all that. >> To say that one can lift the tail etc.....If the a/c is not tied down be >> very wary about taking power with the brakes on - same thing never apply >> brakes with power on - especially that time when you are doing a power >> check and you didn't have enough pressure on the pedals and stomp on the >> brakes when you notice the a/c creeping forward!! watch out, that little >> bit of inertia might just be enough to tip you over. Many Airliners can >> reverse be means of utilising reverse thrust but this practise is banned >> by most companies and if permitted, bold letters to not use brakes! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:35 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again Why would an airliner be prohibited from using the brakes? Surely, there are no more tail-dragger airliners around, are there? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:27 AM Subject: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again I think I posted my first "tie the tail down", "go very easy on the brakes" warnings about 6 years ago & have repeated it every so often. RV tail draggers WILL, not might, not could, but WILL nose over at high RPM and/or C/S prop runups with the proper conditions. RV noseovers, retractable gear up & groundlooping a Champ all fall into the category "Those who have & those who will". KABONG Do Not Archive...It's in there several times already. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:29 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail lifting during full power static test > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Probably good advice to anyone that is not comfortable doing it. As I >> Meant to reply to this thread sooner but this advice should never be >> forgotten!!! >> I have a -6 with 160 HP fixed pitch and learnt the hard way! >> During run up to 2000rpm, stick right back, a gust of wind fron the side >> removed the prop wash and any down force I might have had to keep my tail >> on the ground and -you guessed it - KABOOM. I had my hand on the throttle >> and chopped the engine immediately but over she went!! New prop, engine >> strip and all that. >> To say that one can lift the tail etc.....If the a/c is not tied down be >> very wary about taking power with the brakes on - same thing never apply >> brakes with power on - especially that time when you are doing a power >> check and you didn't have enough pressure on the pedals and stomp on the >> brakes when you notice the a/c creeping forward!! watch out, that little >> bit of inertia might just be enough to tip you over. Many Airliners can >> reverse be means of utilising reverse thrust but this practise is banned >> by most companies and if permitted, bold letters to not use brakes! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:05 AM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again I assume it is the same as for the OV-10. With reversible props, it could back up. However to stop, if you used the brakes, it would tip backwards over onto its tail. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II, N561FS, 300 hours flying Major, USAF Retired F-4G and OV-10 Pilot do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:49 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again > > Why would an airliner be prohibited from using the brakes? Surely, there > are > no more tail-dragger airliners around, are there? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:27 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com; rocket-list > Subject: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again > > > I think I posted my first "tie the tail down", "go very easy on the > brakes" > warnings about 6 years ago & have repeated it every so often. RV tail > draggers WILL, not might, not could, but WILL nose over at high RPM and/or > C/S prop runups with the proper conditions. RV noseovers, retractable gear > up & groundlooping a Champ all fall into the category "Those who have & > those who will". KABONG Do Not Archive...It's in there several times > already. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Springer" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail lifting during full power static test > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >> >> Probably good advice to anyone that is not comfortable doing it. As I >>> Meant to reply to this thread sooner but this advice should never be >>> forgotten!!! >>> I have a -6 with 160 HP fixed pitch and learnt the hard way! >>> During run up to 2000rpm, stick right back, a gust of wind fron the side >>> removed the prop wash and any down force I might have had to keep my >>> tail > >>> on the ground and -you guessed it - KABOOM. I had my hand on the >>> throttle > >>> and chopped the engine immediately but over she went!! New prop, engine >>> strip and all that. >>> To say that one can lift the tail etc.....If the a/c is not tied down be >>> very wary about taking power with the brakes on - same thing never apply >>> brakes with power on - especially that time when you are doing a power >>> check and you didn't have enough pressure on the pedals and stomp on the >>> brakes when you notice the a/c creeping forward!! watch out, that little >>> bit of inertia might just be enough to tip you over. Many Airliners can >>> reverse be means of utilising reverse thrust but this practise is banned >>> by most companies and if permitted, bold letters to not use brakes! > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:27 AM PST US From: "Fred Weaver" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again Because the airliner can tip over backwards if you apply the brakes after using reverse thrust to back up... ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:49 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again > > Why would an airliner be prohibited from using the brakes? Surely, there > are > no more tail-dragger airliners around, are there? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:27 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com; rocket-list > Subject: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again > > > I think I posted my first "tie the tail down", "go very easy on the > brakes" > warnings about 6 years ago & have repeated it every so often. RV tail > draggers WILL, not might, not could, but WILL nose over at high RPM and/or > C/S prop runups with the proper conditions. RV noseovers, retractable gear > up & groundlooping a Champ all fall into the category "Those who have & > those who will". KABONG Do Not Archive...It's in there several times > already. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Springer" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail lifting during full power static test > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >> >> Probably good advice to anyone that is not comfortable doing it. As I >>> Meant to reply to this thread sooner but this advice should never be >>> forgotten!!! >>> I have a -6 with 160 HP fixed pitch and learnt the hard way! >>> During run up to 2000rpm, stick right back, a gust of wind fron the side >>> removed the prop wash and any down force I might have had to keep my >>> tail > >>> on the ground and -you guessed it - KABOOM. I had my hand on the >>> throttle > >>> and chopped the engine immediately but over she went!! New prop, engine >>> strip and all that. >>> To say that one can lift the tail etc.....If the a/c is not tied down be >>> very wary about taking power with the brakes on - same thing never apply >>> brakes with power on - especially that time when you are doing a power >>> check and you didn't have enough pressure on the pedals and stomp on the >>> brakes when you notice the a/c creeping forward!! watch out, that little >>> bit of inertia might just be enough to tip you over. Many Airliners can >>> reverse be means of utilising reverse thrust but this practise is banned >>> by most companies and if permitted, bold letters to not use brakes! > > > -- > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:56 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again Flying condition C-47/DC-3's (several), C-46's (CAF's) & of course the Grand Canyon "Ford" Tri-Motors all drag a tail wheel. But not sure if any of these have the Beta position. KABONG Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" > Why would an airliner be prohibited from using the brakes? Surely, there > are > no more tail-dragger airliners around, are there? > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >> Many Airliners can >>> reverse be means of utilising reverse thrust but this practise is banned >>> by most companies and if permitted, bold letters to not use brakes! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:22 AM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: Aluminum spinner From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Looking for a polished aluminum spinner. Only archive reference is the Orndorff's and they no longer carry em. Anyone know where I can get one? Need a 13" for my 2 blade hartzell. Thanks Mike Super 8 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:51 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again Ah. Gotit. Very discomforting thing for everyone, huh? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gummo Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again I assume it is the same as for the OV-10. With reversible props, it could back up. However to stop, if you used the brakes, it would tip backwards over onto its tail. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II, N561FS, 300 hours flying Major, USAF Retired F-4G and OV-10 Pilot do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:49 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again > > Why would an airliner be prohibited from using the brakes? Surely, there > are > no more tail-dragger airliners around, are there? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:27 AM > To: rv-list@matronics.com; rocket-list > Subject: Rocket-List: .Preaching to the choir...again > > > I think I posted my first "tie the tail down", "go very easy on the > brakes" > warnings about 6 years ago & have repeated it every so often. RV tail > draggers WILL, not might, not could, but WILL nose over at high RPM and/or > C/S prop runups with the proper conditions. RV noseovers, retractable gear > up & groundlooping a Champ all fall into the category "Those who have & > those who will". KABONG Do Not Archive...It's in there several times > already. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Springer" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Tail lifting during full power static test > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer >> >> Probably good advice to anyone that is not comfortable doing it. As I >>> Meant to reply to this thread sooner but this advice should never be >>> forgotten!!! >>> I have a -6 with 160 HP fixed pitch and learnt the hard way! >>> During run up to 2000rpm, stick right back, a gust of wind fron the side >>> removed the prop wash and any down force I might have had to keep my >>> tail > >>> on the ground and -you guessed it - KABOOM. I had my hand on the >>> throttle > >>> and chopped the engine immediately but over she went!! New prop, engine >>> strip and all that. >>> To say that one can lift the tail etc.....If the a/c is not tied down be >>> very wary about taking power with the brakes on - same thing never apply >>> brakes with power on - especially that time when you are doing a power >>> check and you didn't have enough pressure on the pedals and stomp on the >>> brakes when you notice the a/c creeping forward!! watch out, that little >>> bit of inertia might just be enough to tip you over. Many Airliners can >>> reverse be means of utilising reverse thrust but this practise is banned >>> by most companies and if permitted, bold letters to not use brakes! > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:13 PM PST US From: "Kevin Shannon" Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Aluminum spinner I bought one from Murphy a few years back might want to give them a try -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 9:59 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Aluminum spinner Looking for a polished aluminum spinner. Only archive reference is the Orndorff's and they no longer carry em. Anyone know where I can get one? Need a 13" for my 2 blade hartzell. Thanks Mike Super 8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rocket-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Rocket-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rocket-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rocket-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.