Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:18 AM - Re: Re: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise (Rob Ray)
2. 03:42 AM - Re: Cowl clearance? (Tom Martin)
3. 10:19 AM - control surfaces (Frazier, Vincent A)
4. 10:51 AM - Re: control surfaces (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
5. 12:00 PM - Re: control surfaces (Tom Martin)
6. 12:47 PM - Re: control surfaces (Blair)
7. 11:24 PM - Re: Rocket survey (Mark swaney)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise |
My Rocket has RV4 tail feathers with .020 moving surfaces. Works great and I have
plenty of pitch authority right down to minimum controllable flying speeds.
My strip is 1900' with trees, so I fly final at 68 knots with no problems.
The .020 skins have held up well, my Rocket is 10 years old, the 9th to fly.
Rob Ray
Fred LaForge <fred.laforge@verizon.net> wrote:
Be aware the early tail kits had elevators and rudders skinned with .016
skins, for a rocket you should use .020. Van has these.
Fred LaForge EAA tech counselor,RV-4, HR-II project
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise
Never been up in a HRII but have seen a few and they are beautiful just sitting
there!
Tom in Ohio (10G)
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN STARN
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:15 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise
The original RV-4 kits were not & are not available in QB, pre-punched, pre-marked,
pre-aligned, pre-anything, no jigs required....in other words. YOU measure,
build, drill, jig, alignment line, one step up from plans built. Since you
have a 6A, think about a HRII Rocket. Ya take some -4 parts, some parts from
John Harmon, invest in a 540 Lyco as we did and build an HRII for about the same
price as a -4. But you get an RV-4 on steroids. Since the RV-10 the price
of 540's has gone up. When we build the Rocket they were cheaper than a IO-360.
I assume you have ridden in both the -4 & an HRII.....if not do so as soon as
possible. Is the HRII harder to build than a -4 ?..Yes, a little, but well worth
the extra work. Too bad your in Ohio or we would give a ride in N561FS. I'm
going to post on the Rocket list so watch your e-mail, someone near ya'll may
offer you a ride. I assume you built the -6A so an HRII is just more of the
same and "Mo Better". Do Not Archive KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom & Cathy Ervin
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Tail Kit Advise
List, I am getting the urge to build an RV-4 to set next to my RV6-A in the
hanger. Since I want to build this one as reasonable as possible orphaned kits
are a good option.
I have located a 1989 Tail Kit with very little done at an excellent
price. Question for RV-4 Builders: Are the 1989 kits less advanced than
the newer ones? RV-4 kits appear to have made fewer advances.......pre drilled
skins....QB, etc? Any reason other than corrosion to stay away from the 1989
tail kit?
Thanks, Tom in Ohio
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Message 2
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Chris
I believe that AFP makes an additional little angle wedge that you
can use to get your clearance. While you are at it order one of their
little waffle valves. It is a good idea for that unit.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fordham
Sent: February 9, 2007 12:56 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Cowl clearance?
Hi
I'm looking for advice on a cowl -- fuel injector servo clearance
problem. I have a HRII with Airflow Performance Fuel injector servo and
elbow. There is lots of clearance between the elbow and the stock HRII cowl
but when the Fuel servo is bolted on there is major interference between
cowl and leading edge of the fuel injector. Has anyone encountered this
problem?
I think a fix would be to have the elbow at an angle greater than the 95
deg. Is this what John's induction elbow does? As a last resort I could cut
the cowling but I really don't want to go there!
Any advice or comments much appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
Fordham
Message 3
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| Subject: | control surfaces |
************SNIP I have a HR2 with F1 tail (there a few around in this
config). As you might guess, this works well. My only hesitation, I'm
not convinced about the riveted trailing edge on the elevator.
Many F1 guys complain of high stick force but you don't here that from
the HR guys with folded trailing edges. Of course, the control surface
is larger too but I suspect the trailing edge shape to be contributing.
(SNIP)****************
Let's get Jim Winings in on this... he'll tell ya that rounded is
lighter.
My F1H has an RV-4 tail. Works great. I added Jim Winings elevator
bellcrank mod to lighten the stick forces even more at low speed (not
enough trim to hold the nose up when solo). It works great.
As far as the rudder/fin go, I've got the RV-4 rudder/fin and really
can't imagine why you'd want a bigger rudder/fin. That's just MHO, but
I think it's fine and it's gotta add 10 knots due to less drag. ;-)
Vince
Message 4
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| Subject: | control surfaces |
No question rounded is lighter, but slower. Rounded disturbs the air
flow off the trailing edge and allows the surface to deflect easier. A
sharp trailing edge allows for the upper and lower air to meet
cleanly(read speed) , but does not like to be disturbed, ie: deflected.
It's a tradeoff. If you look at mods to some very aerobatic planes, like
SP's and Sukois, many have wooden strips glued to the top side trailing
surfaces to REALLY disrupt the airflow coming off the trailing edge and
allows for a ridiculously light control feel. Depends on what you want.
Mike
Super 8, tapped my trailing edges with a mallet to round em more and
lighted the feel at higher speeds. Works.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier,
Vincent A
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: control surfaces
<VFrazier@usi.edu>
************SNIP I have a HR2 with F1 tail (there a few around in this
config). As you might guess, this works well. My only hesitation, I'm
not convinced about the riveted trailing edge on the elevator.
Many F1 guys complain of high stick force but you don't here that from
the HR guys with folded trailing edges. Of course, the control surface
is larger too but I suspect the trailing edge shape to be contributing.
(SNIP)****************
Let's get Jim Winings in on this... he'll tell ya that rounded is
lighter.
My F1H has an RV-4 tail. Works great. I added Jim Winings elevator
bellcrank mod to lighten the stick forces even more at low speed (not
enough trim to hold the nose up when solo). It works great.
As far as the rudder/fin go, I've got the RV-4 rudder/fin and really
can't imagine why you'd want a bigger rudder/fin. That's just MHO, but
I think it's fine and it's gotta add 10 knots due to less drag. ;-)
Vince
Message 5
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| Subject: | control surfaces |
On my RV4 I had a "tail wagging the dog" feeling one occasion. Turbulent
air would set it off, a tap with the rudder seemed to stop this. Other RV4
drivers have reported the same thing. When I built my first HRII I did not
want this so I opted for the RV8 tail which not only had larger vertical
surfaces but also had a counterweighted rudder. A little extra weight in the
back of a standard wing rocket is a good thing so I thought that with a
counterweighted rudder at least the weight would be doing something useful.
I have never felt this wagging sensation on any of my rockets, which have
all had RV8 or F1 tails. It is quite possible that the RV4 tail does not do
this on a HRII, others can report on their experiences compared to a RV4.
There is no doubt that the F1 elevators are heavier but I believe it
may have more to do with the increased chord size than the trailing edge.
Either way, Jim Winnings bell crank mod will greatly relieve the stick
pressure and I would recommend the modification. This is not the case with
the EVO wing which has, in my opinion, light elevator forces with the F1
tail and the standard bell crank. The trade off with heavier stick forces
is more pitch stability in cruise, so it really depends on your mission.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier,
Vincent A
Sent: February 9, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: control surfaces
************SNIP I have a HR2 with F1 tail (there a few around in this
config). As you might guess, this works well. My only hesitation, I'm
not convinced about the riveted trailing edge on the elevator.
Many F1 guys complain of high stick force but you don't here that from
the HR guys with folded trailing edges. Of course, the control surface
is larger too but I suspect the trailing edge shape to be contributing.
(SNIP)****************
Let's get Jim Winings in on this... he'll tell ya that rounded is
lighter.
My F1H has an RV-4 tail. Works great. I added Jim Winings elevator
bellcrank mod to lighten the stick forces even more at low speed (not
enough trim to hold the nose up when solo). It works great.
As far as the rudder/fin go, I've got the RV-4 rudder/fin and really
can't imagine why you'd want a bigger rudder/fin. That's just MHO, but
I think it's fine and it's gotta add 10 knots due to less drag. ;-)
Vince
Message 6
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| Subject: | control surfaces |
Someone should probably mention that the F1 tail is stronger than an RV4
tail and designed specifically for the Rocket. At the end of the day,
they all work satisfactorily.
I didn't want to put you off with the stick force issue - that can be
altered (if you don't like it) with the bellcrank mod.
Good luck,
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Martin
Sent: Saturday, 10 February 2007 7:00 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: control surfaces
On my RV4 I had a "tail wagging the dog" feeling one occasion.
Turbulent
air would set it off, a tap with the rudder seemed to stop this. Other
RV4
drivers have reported the same thing. When I built my first HRII I did
not
want this so I opted for the RV8 tail which not only had larger vertical
surfaces but also had a counterweighted rudder. A little extra weight in
the
back of a standard wing rocket is a good thing so I thought that with a
counterweighted rudder at least the weight would be doing something
useful.
I have never felt this wagging sensation on any of my rockets, which
have
all had RV8 or F1 tails. It is quite possible that the RV4 tail does
not do
this on a HRII, others can report on their experiences compared to a
RV4.
There is no doubt that the F1 elevators are heavier but I
believe it
may have more to do with the increased chord size than the trailing
edge.
Either way, Jim Winnings bell crank mod will greatly relieve the stick
pressure and I would recommend the modification. This is not the case
with
the EVO wing which has, in my opinion, light elevator forces with the F1
tail and the standard bell crank. The trade off with heavier stick
forces
is more pitch stability in cruise, so it really depends on your mission.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier,
Vincent A
Sent: February 9, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: control surfaces
<VFrazier@usi.edu>
************SNIP I have a HR2 with F1 tail (there a few around in this
config). As you might guess, this works well. My only hesitation, I'm
not convinced about the riveted trailing edge on the elevator.
Many F1 guys complain of high stick force but you don't here that from
the HR guys with folded trailing edges. Of course, the control surface
is larger too but I suspect the trailing edge shape to be contributing.
(SNIP)****************
Let's get Jim Winings in on this... he'll tell ya that rounded is
lighter.
My F1H has an RV-4 tail. Works great. I added Jim Winings elevator
bellcrank mod to lighten the stick forces even more at low speed (not
enough trim to hold the nose up when solo). It works great.
As far as the rudder/fin go, I've got the RV-4 rudder/fin and really
can't imagine why you'd want a bigger rudder/fin. That's just MHO, but
I think it's fine and it's gotta add 10 knots due to less drag. ;-)
Vince
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket survey |
John,
Although I haven't flown in a Rocket since 1999 I still vividly
remember my first flight with you in your HR2 at Bakersfield Muni. I
had flown a visiting friend of mine over to take a look at an RV3 you
had built. It was a Saturday, so I got an eye full of the Bakersfield
Bunch Rockets. Having just flown in from CMA in a 1947 Stinson, I was
a bit envious of these speed machines. I remember you said you'd give
me a ride, but I'd better have my checkbook with me because you were
sure I'd want to buy one. Being a Tomcat aviator in the Navy, I was
really impressed with the amount of room in the cockpit when we got in.
You taxied out from the EAA ramp and we were approaching the end of
RWY 16 when a Cessna reported on base leg for RWY 34. I was a bit
surprised when you called taking the runway for departure on 16, just
as the guy in the Cessna was. He excitedly said on the radio that he
was on base just turning to final on 34. Your response was that we'd
be well out of his way and not to worry! Oh boy, you were right. The
takeoff felt almost like a catapult shot from an aircraft carrier and
we were airborne and at pattern altitude almost before the Cessna had
made his turn to final. I was impressed to say the least. You let me
fly out southeast of Bakersfield and I think you told me I could do
anything I wanted. I was a little hesitant to do aerobatics, but some
level wind-up turns soon convinced me that I was flying an fighter, not
a homebuilt. As we returned to the field at over 200 I couldn't
imagine how we'd ever get slowed down to land. But the Rocket handled
that feat well, too, or was it the great pilot I was with? My friend
said I had a smile from ear to ear when we got back on the ground. It
was a real thrill and I thank you for a great aviation experience.
Mark Swaney
On Feb 5, 2007, at 10:33 AM, Hr2pilot@aol.com wrote:
>
> PS
> yep something like that
>
> Just looking for ANY and ALL comments from anyone that has ever been
> in a rocket
>
> EVER been in a rocket.
>
> Its ugly here
>
>
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