---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/17/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:52 AM - Clocking the prop. Real world data (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 2. 08:20 AM - Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Randy Lervold) 3. 09:46 AM - Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Dan Checkoway) 4. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 5. 04:06 PM - canopy overspray (Jim Stone) 6. 04:42 PM - Re: canopy overspray (Professor Fate) 7. 04:45 PM - Re: canopy overspray (Professor Fate) 8. 04:51 PM - Re: canopy overspray (nico css) 9. 07:49 PM - Re: canopy overspray (Rob Ray) 10. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data (Rob Ray) 11. 08:46 PM - Re: canopy overspray (Aaron Villery) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:57 AM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it makes ALL the difference. Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was. I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new plane as a result. Best, Mike ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:33 AM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking but there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop clocking experimentation with an O-360? If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation I can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro MicroVibe II balancer.... http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing Best, Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) To: rocket-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it makes ALL the difference. Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was. I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new plane as a result. Best, Mike ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:18 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Randy, you might find this interesting: http://www.rvproject.com/m20j/pdfs/service_bulletins/sbm20-206.pdf On my last Mooney, I flew behind an IO-360-A3B6D. What made it an -A3... vs an -A1... were the reindexed prop flange bushings, and thus the clocking of the prop (per the SB listed above). That was one very smooth engine, but I can't say I had the opportunity to fly it before the conversion was done. The -A1B6 I have in my RV-7 had notable vibration early on, but after I broke it in, I had it dynamically balanced by Jim Fackler to 0.01 IPS (http://www.rvproject.com/20040427.html). While I did originally consider converting my -A1B6 to an -A3B6, it didn't end up being necessary in the end. The dynamic balance took care of it. Kahuna, I assume you dynamically balanced the prop before diving into the reclocking project? I didn't see any notes about that on your site. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Lervold To: rv-list@matronics.com ; rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking but there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop clocking experimentation with an O-360? If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation I can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro MicroVibe II balancer.... http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing Best, Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) To: rocket-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it makes ALL the difference. Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was. I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new plane as a result. Best, Mike href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:19 AM PST US Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Yes it was dynamically balanced on 6 different occasions. 3 different individuals. No weight required. .02-.04ips on each run. Ill make a note of it on the web page. Mike _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Randy, you might find this interesting: http://www.rvproject.com/m20j/pdfs/service_bulletins/sbm20-206.pdf On my last Mooney, I flew behind an IO-360-A3B6D. What made it an -A3... vs an -A1... were the reindexed prop flange bushings, and thus the clocking of the prop (per the SB listed above). That was one very smooth engine, but I can't say I had the opportunity to fly it before the conversion was done. The -A1B6 I have in my RV-7 had notable vibration early on, but after I broke it in, I had it dynamically balanced by Jim Fackler to 0.01 IPS (http://www.rvproject.com/20040427.html). While I did originally consider converting my -A1B6 to an -A3B6, it didn't end up being necessary in the end. The dynamic balance took care of it. Kahuna, I assume you dynamically balanced the prop before diving into the reclocking project? I didn't see any notes about that on your site. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Lervold To: rv-list@matronics.com ; rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking but there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop clocking experimentation with an O-360? If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation I can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro MicroVibe II balancer.... http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing Best, Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) To: rocket-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can safely say that clocking the prop doesn't just make a difference, it makes ALL the difference. Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine Rockets and RV's. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was. I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new plane as a result. Best, Mike href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:03 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Does anyone have a good way to remove paint overspray from the plastic canopy? Despite my best masking job, some overspray made its way onto the canopy. TIA, Jim ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:05 PM PST US From: "Professor Fate" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Magic Clay and Maguire's final inspection spray. You can get the clay at any body supply shop, The spray should be available at almost any auto parts house. Spray a liberal coat of final inspection on the plastic then rub off the overspray with the clay, as the surface dries out apply more spray to keep the surface wet. Make sure the surface is VERY clean before starting. The only problem you may encounter is if you got etching primer in there it may have etched the plastic. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Stone To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Does anyone have a good way to remove paint overspray from the plastic canopy? Despite my best masking job, some overspray made its way onto the canopy. TIA, Jim ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:35 PM PST US From: "Professor Fate" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Next time use "Spraylat" on the canopy before painting. Spraylat is like a skin, you paint it on the canopy with a brush or spray gun then you peal it off when your ready to go . since it actually sticks to the canopy nothing can get under it. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Stone To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Does anyone have a good way to remove paint overspray from the plastic canopy? Despite my best masking job, some overspray made its way onto the canopy. TIA, Jim ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:53 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Try to get your hands on a small quantity of n-methyl-2-pyrrolidone (NMP). If you google that, you should find a US company near you that'll sell it. It's very expensive but you won't find any other paint remover that's organic and water based. Aircraft paint flies off the aluminum in flakes which you can pick up and dispose of without contaminating water sources. Its only enemy is water. To deactivate it, wash it off with water. Control the effect on the plexiglass with a rag with NMP in one hand and a rag doused in water in the other. Wipe with NMP until the paint is gone and immediately wipe with the water-rag. Once done, wash the area again with water. Don't use the water sparingly. Leave it on and your Merc overnight and it might become a shiny De Lorean with the paint nicely peeling off like it's been sun-burnt. Nico _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Does anyone have a good way to remove paint overspray from the plastic canopy? Despite my best masking job, some overspray made its way onto the canopy. TIA, Jim ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:06 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Mineral Spirits works well, won't hurt the plexi... RR Professor Fate wrote: Magic Clay and Maguire's final inspection spray. You can get the clay at any body supply shop, The spray should be available at almost any auto parts house. Spray a liberal coat of final inspection on the plastic then rub off the overspray with the clay, as the surface dries out apply more spray to keep the surface wet. Make sure the surface is VERY clean before starting. The only problem you may encounter is if you got etching primer in there it may have etched the plastic. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Stone To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Does anyone have a good way to remove paint overspray from the plastic canopy? Despite my best masking job, some overspray made its way onto the canopy. TIA, Jim href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:26 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Awesome! I have been trying to nail down a "pesky" harmonic in my Rocket at 2100-2400 rpm. After a dynamic balance, clean fuel injectors, new plugs and re-timing the mag and checking electronic ignition, vibration continues. Sounds like this is the ticket...thanks! RR Dan Checkoway wrote: @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-compose } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } Randy, you might find this interesting: http://www.rvproject.com/m20j/pdfs/service_bulletins/sbm20-206.pdf On my last Mooney, I flew behind an IO-360-A3B6D. What made it an -A3... vs an -A1... were the reindexed prop flange bushings, and thus the clocking of the prop (per the SB listed above). That was one very smooth engine, but I can't say I had the opportunity to fly it before the conversion was done. The -A1B6 I have in my RV-7 had notable vibration early on, but after I broke it in, I had it dynamically balanced by Jim Fackler to 0.01 IPS (http://www.rvproject.com/20040427.html). While I did originally consider converting my -A1B6 to an -A3B6, it didn't end up being necessary in the end. The dynamic balance took care of it. Kahuna, I assume you dynamically balanced the prop before diving into the reclocking project? I didn't see any notes about that on your site. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Lervold To: rv-list@matronics.com ; rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:06 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data Wow Mike, great info!!! I've long been curious about prop clocking but there are some obstacles to just trying it as you ran into with the crank flange bosses. Of course you're working on a 6-cylinder where most of us are flying 4-cylinders. Anyone out there want to do some prop clocking experimentation with an O-360? If anyone in the Northwest wants to try some clocking experimentation I can assist with the measurement. Our EAA chapter has a DSS Micro MicroVibe II balancer.... http://www.eaa105.org/Programs/programs.htm#PropBalancing Best, Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) To: rocket-list@matronics.com ; rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: RV-List: Clocking the prop. Real world data After weeks of trial and error, I have finally reached a point where I can safely say that clocking the prop doesnt just make a difference, it makes ALL the difference. Several weeks ago I set out on a mission to run to ground a vibration in my RV-8. An IO-540 C4B5 with a Hartzell 2 blade prop. There has been a vibration that I would characterize as objectionable. Common on big engine Rockets and RVs. The lower the RPM, the more objectionable it was. I was able to instrument the plane and do some real tests and get real results with real data. The net of it is that by changing the prop clocking, I was able to improve my vibration by 83%. And no Im not kidding. You can read all the details here. http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/super8/index.htm I captured a lot of data. I sure hope others find it useful. I have a new plane as a result. Best, Mike href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:43 PM PST US From: "Aaron Villery" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Kerosene might do the trick as well. Had to get 15 year old masking tape off a -6 canopy. Aaron Villery ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:48 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Mineral Spirits works well, won't hurt the plexi... RR Professor Fate wrote: Magic Clay and Maguire's final inspection spray. You can get the clay at any body supply shop, The spray should be available at almost any auto parts house. Spray a liberal coat of final inspection on the plastic then rub off the overspray with the clay, as the surface dries out apply more spray to keep the surface wet. Make sure the surface is VERY clean before starting. The only problem you may encounter is if you got etching primer in there it may have etched the plastic. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Stone To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:05 PM Subject: Rocket-List: canopy overspray Does anyone have a good way to remove paint overspray from the plastic canopy? Despite my best masking job, some overspray made its way onto the canopy. TIA, Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! 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