Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Re: San Diego Layover (N395V)
2. 08:54 AM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07 (Bob & Toodie Marshall)
3. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07 (nico css)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07 (Chuck Jensen)
5. 11:51 AM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (mark936@webtv.net)
6. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points ()
7. 12:58 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Larry Schneider)
8. 02:30 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (mark936@webtv.net)
9. 03:00 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Smith, Stuart)
10. 03:03 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Tom Martin)
11. 06:55 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Walter Tondu)
12. 07:52 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Tom Gummo)
13. 08:04 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Walter Tondu)
14. 08:48 PM - Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points (Tom Gummo)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: San Diego Layover |
I had the same problem. Tried to get insurance the day after one augered in. Ended
up flying without insurance for a year. Finally Falcon got me covered.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124054#124054
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07 |
Hi Jim Stone, I was faced with the same insurance issue except with Avemco,
I have insured with them for over twenty years. Even with thousands of hours
Tail dragger(Pawnee Scouts 180 C) it made no difference. they still wanted
twenty five HRS dual in the rocket before insuring, they didn't seem to care
about phase one or test periods. So I Flew it for 25 hours and called them
up and received the insurance, If you have faith in your ability it will be
a non issue. When buying insurance you are betting you will have an
accident, they have the odds on their side that you will not have an
accident. They just want the odds even better! Bob Marshall -----
Original Message -----
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07 |
The main thing about self-insured flights, as I understand that practice, is
the probability of third-party liability. You hit someone's building and set
it on fire; you could be liable for everything in there that goes up in
flames plus some.
The main objective would be to contain the damage if it occurs and one
method is to build a wall around the risk so that it cannot ravage whatever
you own outside of those walls - also called a corporate veil.
It might be a good couple of bucks spent to talk to an expert in the field.
Options that immediately come to mind is to sell your aircraft to your own
company or other entity that you own and so limit the scope of the liability
to the value and ability of the entity. Or, you could build the plane for
the entity and record a huge bill against it already making it insolvent
except for your (gracious) deferment of payment, which you maintain
indefinitely. Your relationship with the entity as pilot will require
careful planning, which only an expert can guide you on. The cost of such a
consultation might be worth your while.
Just my 2c worth.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob & Toodie
Marshall
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07
<rtmarshall@osbtown.com>
Hi Jim Stone, I was faced with the same insurance issue except with Avemco,
I have insured with them for over twenty years. Even with thousands of hours
Tail dragger(Pawnee Scouts 180 C) it made no difference. they still wanted
twenty five HRS dual in the rocket before insuring, they didn't seem to care
about phase one or test periods. So I Flew it for 25 hours and called them
up and received the insurance, If you have faith in your ability it will be
a non issue. When buying insurance you are betting you will have an
accident, they have the odds on their side that you will not have an
accident. They just want the odds even better! Bob Marshall -----
Original Message -----
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07 |
This corporate veil thing is a widely held belief that rises almost to
level of myth. First, I'm not an attorney--I work for a living---but
some of the legal concepts are quite simple.
If you put the plane into a corporation and its owned by the
corporation, the legal protection this maneuver affords is miniscule.
If you wreck it and burns somebody's house down doing so, the home owner
(well, actually the home owner's insurer, under subrogation) is going to
sue somebody to recover their loss. So who are they going to sue; the
plane, or you? Dah! Since you were the one that built, maintained and
flew the plane, they are going after you, not the plane, so the
corporate veil may be intact, but it protects you from nothing.
One is hard pressed to think of a circumstance that the corporate veil
is useful to an owner except if aircraft(s) are being used for charters
or flying clubs and the owner of a plane doesn't maintain or fly the
plane(s), but simply receives rent or other compensation from use of the
plane by others. Under those circumstances, the veil might/can protect
the owner from litigation if the aircraft is involved in an accident.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nico css
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07
The main thing about self-insured flights, as I understand that
practice, is the probability of third-party liability. You hit someone's
building and set it on fire; you could be liable for everything in there
that goes up in flames plus some. The main objective would be to contain
the damage if it occurs and one method is to build a wall around the
risk so that it cannot ravage whatever you own outside of those walls -
also called a corporate veil. It might be a good couple of bucks spent
to talk to an expert in the field. Options that immediately come to mind
is to sell your aircraft to your own company or other entity that you
own and so limit the scope of the liability to the value and ability of
the entity. Or, you could build the plane for the entity and record a
huge bill against it already making it insolvent except for your
(gracious) deferment of payment, which you maintain indefinitely. Your
relationship with the entity as pilot will require careful planning,
which only an expert can guide you on. The cost of such a consultation
might be worth your while.
Just my 2c worth.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob &
Toodie Marshall
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:52 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 07/15/07
<rtmarshall@osbtown.com>
Hi Jim Stone, I was faced with the same insurance issue except with
Avemco,
I have insured with them for over twenty years. Even with thousands of
hours
Tail dragger(Pawnee Scouts 180 C) it made no difference. they still
wanted
twenty five HRS dual in the rocket before insuring, they didn't seem to
care
about phase one or test periods. So I Flew it for 25 hours and called
them
up and received the insurance, If you have faith in your ability it will
be
a non issue. When buying insurance you are betting you will have an
accident, they have the odds on their side that you will not have an
accident. They just want the odds even better! Bob Marshall -----
Original Message -----
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list@matronics.com>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
how are you guys lifting or jacking your planes up for tire changes?
I got ready to use a wing jack on the tie down point and John Harmon
shot that down, said aft of CG and 3/16th bolts.
Lots of RV TW guys are using wing jacks and jacking plane off ground
albeit lighter by two hundred pounds.
I didn't want to stress it by lifting it by the engine mount .
Just curious about different methods.
thx
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
We had some 1/2 thick aluminum scrap and a piece of angle. Cut a 2" hole in the
6" round piece so it kinda looks like a fat horse shoe. Drilled holes in the
open end & used a 3/4 angle to close the opening buy installing two bolts. The
open end is wide enough to slip onto the gear leg. The angle hits the bottom
"thru bolt" and the horse shoe solid end rests on the gear leg. The hole is such
that when installed it is level with the ground, we then just put a floor jack
under the large part of the horseshoe end (facing inside) & jack it up. We
have 2X4" cut & screwed together & rest the axle on them once the wheel is removed......Guess
I have to take some photos of our "tools". KABONG
>From: mark936@webtv.net
>Date: 2007/07/16 Mon PM 01:50:38 CDT
>To: rocket-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points
>
>how are you guys lifting or jacking your planes up for tire changes?
>
>I got ready to use a wing jack on the tie down point and John Harmon
>shot that down, said aft of CG and 3/16th bolts.
>
>Lots of RV TW guys are using wing jacks and jacking plane off ground
>albeit lighter by two hundred pounds.
>
>I didn't want to stress it by lifting it by the engine mount .
>
>Just curious about different methods.
>
>thx
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
What would John think of doing one wheel at a time using wing jacks? It
leaves the CG more neutral with one wheel left on the ground and low fuel.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <mark936@webtv.net>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points
>
> how are you guys lifting or jacking your planes up for tire changes?
>
> I got ready to use a wing jack on the tie down point and John Harmon
> shot that down, said aft of CG and 3/16th bolts.
>
> Lots of RV TW guys are using wing jacks and jacking plane off ground
> albeit lighter by two hundred pounds.
>
> I didn't want to stress it by lifting it by the engine mount .
>
> Just curious about different methods.
>
> thx
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
john likes to lift with straps on engine mount but I heard somewhere
that you could do possible damage. So I was looking for jacks.
we have a gizmo like Kabong mentioned but with 10 inches of chain for
one wheel/leg at a time.
I heard that a hoist on the engine for AFT problems along with the wing
jacks works well since there are six bolts in there.
I'll probably do the hoist either on the engine with straps or leg gear
after Harry H. finishes with the cherry picker on the field. And I'm
not there so I won't have much say so. It will just get done.
I have full fuel in the wing.
Thanks for input. (you know how hard it was getting those unused three
legged jacks in the C-182 from a RV friend at Compton?) ;)
and I'll still have to buy him a bottle of wine.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
Hey Mark:
Thanks for the feedback and information - I will be very careful if I decide to
lift from the engine mount again!! :( Lifting with straps around the engine
sounds like a real good idea - Stu.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
mark936@webtv.net
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points
john likes to lift with straps on engine mount but I heard somewhere
that you could do possible damage. So I was looking for jacks.
we have a gizmo like Kabong mentioned but with 10 inches of chain for
one wheel/leg at a time.
I heard that a hoist on the engine for AFT problems along with the wing
jacks works well since there are six bolts in there.
I'll probably do the hoist either on the engine with straps or leg gear
after Harry H. finishes with the cherry picker on the field. And I'm
not there so I won't have much say so. It will just get done.
I have full fuel in the wing.
Thanks for input. (you know how hard it was getting those unused three
legged jacks in the C-182 from a RV friend at Compton?) ;)
and I'll still have to buy him a bottle of wine.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
Take a standard gear clamp, or two if you are nervous, and put them on the
lower gear leg socket. Around where the bolt goes through the leg. Place
them so that the "screw" portion is facing down. The provides a lip that a
standard floor jack can grip on to. I, and others, have used this method
for years. Have some blocks ready to put under the axle after the wheel is
removed so that you can take the weight off the jack while you work on the
tire. Make sure you chock the other wheel.
Tom Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mark936@webtv.net
Sent: July 16, 2007 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points
john likes to lift with straps on engine mount but I heard somewhere
that you could do possible damage. So I was looking for jacks.
we have a gizmo like Kabong mentioned but with 10 inches of chain for
one wheel/leg at a time.
I heard that a hoist on the engine for AFT problems along with the wing
jacks works well since there are six bolts in there.
I'll probably do the hoist either on the engine with straps or leg gear
after Harry H. finishes with the cherry picker on the field. And I'm
not there so I won't have much say so. It will just get done.
I have full fuel in the wing.
Thanks for input. (you know how hard it was getting those unused three
legged jacks in the C-182 from a RV friend at Compton?) ;)
and I'll still have to buy him a bottle of wine.
2:21 PM
2:21 PM
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
On 07/16 2:28, mark936@webtv.net wrote:
>
> john likes to lift with straps on engine mount but I heard somewhere
> that you could do possible damage. So I was looking for jacks.
>
> we have a gizmo like Kabong mentioned but with 10 inches of chain for
> one wheel/leg at a time.
>
> I heard that a hoist on the engine for AFT problems along with the wing
> jacks works well since there are six bolts in there.
>
> I'll probably do the hoist either on the engine with straps or leg gear
> after Harry H. finishes with the cherry picker on the field. And I'm
> not there so I won't have much say so. It will just get done.
>
> I have full fuel in the wing.
>
> Thanks for input. (you know how hard it was getting those unused three
> legged jacks in the C-182 from a RV friend at Compton?) ;)
>
> and I'll still have to buy him a bottle of wine.
Dettori Badde Nigolosu from Sardegna, Italy, 1999 vintage. Oh wait,
you can't get any, I just bought the last bottle. How about a beer...
Actually you would think those wings would be able to handle it especially
with a grade 8 bolt, especially if you raised the tail. I thought
rockets were stronger than that. :) Using the engine mount seems
like a worse idea. The engine mount bolts aren't designed to lift
an entire airplane, just the motor and associated power the engine
develops. Plus, you are going to need a tall jack to get the wheels
off the ground. Just pondering outloud.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!
http://www.evorocket.com - Building
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
>
> Actually you would think those wings would be able to handle it especially
> with a grade 8 bolt, especially if you raised the tail. I thought
> rockets were stronger than that. :) Using the engine mount seems
> like a worse idea. The engine mount bolts aren't designed to lift
> an entire airplane, just the motor and associated power the engine
> develops. Plus, you are going to need a tall jack to get the wheels
> off the ground. Just pondering outloud.
>
> --
> Walter Tondu
It has to do with CG. When I tried to jack the plane at both tie down
points, I looked up to see the tailwheel leave the ground. You have to
either tie the tail down or add weight to the tail to jack both wheels off
the ground at the same time. Say to align the wheel pants.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
> It has to do with CG. When I tried to jack the plane at both tie down
> points, I looked up to see the tailwheel leave the ground. You have to
> either tie the tail down or add weight to the tail to jack both wheels off
> the ground at the same time. Say to align the wheel pants.
I see, makes sense. I would get a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with
concrete with a tough chain in it, sticking up through the concrete.
Use it to keep the tail imobile. I just don't like the idea of jacking
with the engine mount, just a personal preference.
It's easy with the nose gear planes, which is my only experience.
Thanks for the information.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!
http://www.evorocket.com - Building
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points |
My is a Harmon Rocket II, I don't know anything about the CG with the new
wing.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Tondu" <walter@tondu.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Harmon Rocket HR-2 jack points
>
> > It has to do with CG. When I tried to jack the plane at both tie down
> > points, I looked up to see the tailwheel leave the ground. You have to
> > either tie the tail down or add weight to the tail to jack both wheels
> > off
> > the ground at the same time. Say to align the wheel pants.
>
> I see, makes sense. I would get a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with
> concrete with a tough chain in it, sticking up through the concrete.
> Use it to keep the tail imobile. I just don't like the idea of jacking
> with the engine mount, just a personal preference.
>
> It's easy with the nose gear planes, which is my only experience.
>
> Thanks for the information.
> --
> Walter Tondu
> http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!
> http://www.evorocket.com - Building
>
>
>
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