---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/24/07: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:36 AM - Re: High compression, high CHTs (Rob Ray) 2. 06:44 AM - Re: High compression, high CHTs (Wernerworld) 3. 07:06 PM - Re: High compression, high CHTs (Jim Stone) 4. 07:18 PM - Re: High compression, high CHTs (Jim Stone) 5. 08:10 PM - Re: High compression, high CHTs (Jones15183@aol.com) 6. 08:54 PM - Re: High compression, high CHTs (Bob J.) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:10 AM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: RE: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, I have the exact same setup in my HR2, a LyCon IO-540 with 10:1's and a EI ignition. I have low CHT's comparatively, 330F in cruise on the lowest, 350F on the highest. Since you are still breaking it in, I would give a chance for the rings to seat, something highly evident inflight. You get a noticeable CHT and oil temp drop. You need to run it hard, I mean HARD the first 5 hours. I typically do a full power climb to 10,000+ feet on a new engine several times. The timing issue sounds like the Mag, but one easy way to check is to isolate them inflight which it sounds like you have. The EI timing is pretty straightforward and works good, lasts a long time. I would check the timing on both, clean the plugs and try it again... Rob Ray Tom Martin wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Jim I have had ok service from the elctro air systems but others have noted erratic ignition timing . Contact Jim Winings, in Indianapolis regarding his electro air situation, as it sounds similar to what you are experiencing. Tom Martin --------------------------------- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: September 23, 2007 7:47 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs First let me announce the fact that N918JK is flying, as of about a week ago. Second, I need some advice to clear up high CHTs. I am running ElectroAir's ignition on lower plugs and a Slick Mag on the upper plugs. I have 10-1 pistons in new Lycoming jugs. On the first few short flights my CHTs climbed right through redline on 5 or 6 cylinders in less than 5 minutes. My EIS timing was factory set to 23 deg to account for the high compression and I set the mag at 25 deg per the engine placard. I reduced the EIS to 20 degrees and saw some relief but two of the CHTs (6 and 2) still climbing into the low to mid 400s. Today I plan on retarding the Mag to 20 degrees because during cruise I felt a vibration and turned the Mag off and the vibration went away so I feel like the two ignitions were not working together. CHT #4 is my coolest with a difference from the hottest (#6) 80-100 deg. Question: What timing have you high compression guys been using to get reasonable CHTs? Other than ensuring no leaks in the baffles what else can I do? BTW, a friend installed the louvers on the bottom of his F-1 cowl and it had no effect so I'm not going there until last. Thanks for you time, Jim Stone Louisville KY Release Date: 20/09/2007 12:07 PM 20/09/2007 12:07 PM --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:47 AM PST US From: "Wernerworld" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, I run my mag at 25 degrees. What kind of temp did you see? Lycoming redline is 500F. Hope you dind't get that high. Russ ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:33 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, I have the exact same setup in my HR2, a LyCon IO-540 with 10:1's and a EI ignition. I have low CHT's comparatively, 330F in cruise on the lowest, 350F on the highest. Since you are still breaking it in, I would give a chance for the rings to seat, something highly evident inflight. You get a noticeable CHT and oil temp drop. You need to run it hard, I mean HARD the first 5 hours. I typically do a full power climb to 10,000+ feet on a new engine several times. The timing issue sounds like the Mag, but one easy way to check is to isolate them inflight which it sounds like you have. The EI timing is pretty straightforward and works good, lasts a long time. I would check the timing on both, clean the plugs and try it again... Rob Ray Tom Martin wrote: Jim I have had ok service from the elctro air systems but others have noted erratic ignition timing . Contact Jim Winings, in Indianapolis regarding his electro air situation, as it sounds similar to what you are experiencing. Tom Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: September 23, 2007 7:47 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs First let me announce the fact that N918JK is flying, as of about a week ago. Second, I need some advice to clear up high CHTs. I am running ElectroAir's ignition on lower plugs and a Slick Mag on the upper plugs. I have 10-1 pistons in new Lycoming jugs. On the first few short flights my CHTs climbed right through redline on 5 or 6 cylinders in less than 5 minutes. My EIS timing was factory set to 23 deg to account for the high compression and I set the mag at 25 deg per the engine placard. I reduced the EIS to 20 degrees and saw some relief but two of the CHTs (6 and 2) still climbing into the low to mid 400s. Today I plan on retarding the Mag to 20 degrees because during cruise I felt a vibration and turned the Mag off and the vibration went away so I feel like the two ignitions were not working together. CHT #4 is my coolest with a difference from the hottest (#6) 80-100 deg. Question: What timing have you high compression guys been using to get reasonable CHTs? Other than ensuring no leaks in the baffles what else can I do? BTW, a friend installed the louvers on the bottom of his F-1 cowl and it had no effect so I'm not going there until last. Thanks for you time, Jim Stone Louisville KY ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/23/2007 1:53 PM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:39 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Thanks Rob, What timing do have your mag and EI set at? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:33 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, I have the exact same setup in my HR2, a LyCon IO-540 with 10:1's and a EI ignition. I have low CHT's comparatively, 330F in cruise on the lowest, 350F on the highest. Since you are still breaking it in, I would give a chance for the rings to seat, something highly evident inflight. You get a noticeable CHT and oil temp drop. You need to run it hard, I mean HARD the first 5 hours. I typically do a full power climb to 10,000+ feet on a new engine several times. The timing issue sounds like the Mag, but one easy way to check is to isolate them inflight which it sounds like you have. The EI timing is pretty straightforward and works good, lasts a long time. I would check the timing on both, clean the plugs and try it again... Rob Ray Tom Martin wrote: Jim I have had ok service from the elctro air systems but others have noted erratic ignition timing . Contact Jim Winings, in Indianapolis regarding his electro air situation, as it sounds similar to what you are experiencing. Tom Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: September 23, 2007 7:47 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs First let me announce the fact that N918JK is flying, as of about a week ago. Second, I need some advice to clear up high CHTs. I am running ElectroAir's ignition on lower plugs and a Slick Mag on the upper plugs. I have 10-1 pistons in new Lycoming jugs. On the first few short flights my CHTs climbed right through redline on 5 or 6 cylinders in less than 5 minutes. My EIS timing was factory set to 23 deg to account for the high compression and I set the mag at 25 deg per the engine placard. I reduced the EIS to 20 degrees and saw some relief but two of the CHTs (6 and 2) still climbing into the low to mid 400s. Today I plan on retarding the Mag to 20 degrees because during cruise I felt a vibration and turned the Mag off and the vibration went away so I feel like the two ignitions were not working together. CHT #4 is my coolest with a difference from the hottest (#6) 80-100 deg. Question: What timing have you high compression guys been using to get reasonable CHTs? Other than ensuring no leaks in the baffles what else can I do? BTW, a friend installed the louvers on the bottom of his F-1 cowl and it had no effect so I'm not going there until last. Thanks for you time, Jim Stone Louisville KY ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Hey Russ, The second flight they were climbing to redline and I had to land at my emergency field. They have responded to retarding the timing to 20 deg. I also discovered the mag was not timed where I had set it, it was way early, probably a rookie mistake. I think I may have seen the drop that comes with initial breakin just today, temps were better (less than 410). The engine does not seem to be as smooth as I would like but I have little experience behind a souped up 540. I will keep moving the timing around until I find the setting that is best for my engine. Jim Stone Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: Wernerworld To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, I run my mag at 25 degrees. What kind of temp did you see? Lycoming redline is 500F. Hope you dind't get that high. Russ ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:33 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, I have the exact same setup in my HR2, a LyCon IO-540 with 10:1's and a EI ignition. I have low CHT's comparatively, 330F in cruise on the lowest, 350F on the highest. Since you are still breaking it in, I would give a chance for the rings to seat, something highly evident inflight. You get a noticeable CHT and oil temp drop. You need to run it hard, I mean HARD the first 5 hours. I typically do a full power climb to 10,000+ feet on a new engine several times. The timing issue sounds like the Mag, but one easy way to check is to isolate them inflight which it sounds like you have. The EI timing is pretty straightforward and works good, lasts a long time. I would check the timing on both, clean the plugs and try it again... Rob Ray Tom Martin wrote: Jim I have had ok service from the elctro air systems but others have noted erratic ignition timing . Contact Jim Winings, in Indianapolis regarding his electro air situation, as it sounds similar to what you are experiencing. Tom Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: September 23, 2007 7:47 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs First let me announce the fact that N918JK is flying, as of about a week ago. Second, I need some advice to clear up high CHTs. I am running ElectroAir's ignition on lower plugs and a Slick Mag on the upper plugs. I have 10-1 pistons in new Lycoming jugs. On the first few short flights my CHTs climbed right through redline on 5 or 6 cylinders in less than 5 minutes. My EIS timing was factory set to 23 deg to account for the high compression and I set the mag at 25 deg per the engine placard. I reduced the EIS to 20 degrees and saw some relief but two of the CHTs (6 and 2) still climbing into the low to mid 400s. Today I plan on retarding the Mag to 20 degrees because during cruise I felt a vibration and turned the Mag off and the vibration went away so I feel like the two ignitions were not working together. CHT #4 is my coolest with a difference from the hottest (#6) 80-100 deg. Question: What timing have you high compression guys been using to get reasonable CHTs? Other than ensuring no leaks in the baffles what else can I do? BTW, a friend installed the louvers on the bottom of his F-1 cowl and it had no effect so I'm not going there until last. Thanks for you time, Jim Stone Louisville KY href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Release Date: 9/23/2007 1:53 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:38 PM PST US From: Jones15183@aol.com Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim. are you aware that your EIS has an automatic advance of +7 degrees. So whatever you set the initial setting on , at 2500 RPM degrees the timing is supposed to read 25 degrees BTDC. Or whatever your manufacturer calls for your engine. At 23/23 you might be reading a timing of approx. 32 degrees BTDC. At alt. your highest timing might be 38 degrees BTDC. There are a lot of questions that could be answered about your Eis if I knew all the parameters. Do You have the CSTW or the rear timing mount system. It makes a lots of defference in adjusting your timing system. billy waters ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:46 PM PST US From: "Bob J." Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High compression, high CHTs Jim, congrats on your first flight. Its too bad you have to spend this time debugging and not enjoying something you spent years building. 1. What type of pickup (crank trigger/mag hole trigger)? 2. Which plugs are you running on the bottoms? 3. Have you connected a voltmeter to the the Electroair to determine how much advance there is? 4. Why are your mags not timed exactly to the EI? Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 9/23/07, Jim Stone wrote: > > First let me announce the fact that N918JK is flying, as of about a week > ago. > Second, I need some advice to clear up high CHTs. > I am running ElectroAir's ignition on lower plugs and a Slick Mag on the > upper plugs. I have 10-1 pistons in new Lycoming jugs. On the first few > short flights my CHTs climbed right through redline on 5 or 6 cylinders in > less than 5 minutes. My EIS timing was factory set to 23 deg to account for > the high compression and I set the mag at 25 deg per the engine placard. I > reduced the EIS to 20 degrees and saw some relief but two of the CHTs (6 and > 2) still climbing into the low to mid 400s. Today I plan on retarding the > Mag to 20 degrees because during cruise I felt a vibration and turned the > Mag off and the vibration went away so I feel like the two ignitions were > not working together. CHT #4 is my coolest with a difference from the > hottest (#6) 80-100 deg. > Question: What timing have you high compression guys been using to get > reasonable CHTs? > Other than ensuring no leaks in the baffles what else can I do? > BTW, a friend installed the louvers on the bottom of his F-1 cowl and it > had no effect so I'm not going there until last. > Thanks for you time, > Jim Stone > Louisville KY > > * > > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rocket-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Rocket-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rocket-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rocket-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.