---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/26/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:39 AM - Re: first10 hr report (Rob Ray) 2. 06:21 AM - On vertical rolls... (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew) 3. 06:50 AM - Re: On vertical rolls... (Tom Martin) 4. 07:48 AM - Re: On vertical rolls... (Michael W Stewart) 5. 10:03 AM - Re: first10 hr report (Jim Stone) 6. 02:08 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Michael W Stewart) 7. 03:21 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Jim Stone) 8. 03:52 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Rob Ray) 9. 03:57 PM - Re: On vertical rolls... (Rob Ray) 10. 03:57 PM - Re: first10 hr report (CalBru@aol.com) 11. 04:05 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Danny) 12. 04:18 PM - On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting other Rocket pilots..... (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew) 13. 04:35 PM - ...and a note on safety.... (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew) 14. 05:12 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Jim Stone) 15. 05:14 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Jim Stone) 16. 08:40 PM - Re: On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting other Rocket pilots..... (Tom Gummo) 17. 11:36 PM - Re: first10 hr report (nico css) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:10 AM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) - Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first- 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:18 AM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it seems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat there and coached me through all the manuevers, without access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ________________________________ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:37 AM PST US From: Tom Martin Subject: RE: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... Andrew I am not trying to take the fun out of flying but our rocket community had a loss of two people last weekend that we should all take note of. There are no official reports out yet but here is what is known from the news media and from pictures. The aircraft was seen to be doing aerobatics before the accident. The aircraft landed upside down with no sign of skid marks. This would lead one to believe it was in an inverted spin. What we need to do is to find out what type of situation would have caused this scenario. Be careful, these are fun fast airplanes that can do aerobatics, but when things go wrong they go wrong fast. Tom Martin _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: June 26, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it seems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat there and coached me through all the manuevers, without access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin _____ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient HYPERLINK "http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007" \nused cars. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Rocket-List "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 4:13 PM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... From: Michael W Stewart Toms well stated comments not withstanding. I recommend beginning your vert roll training slowly. They are very disorienting. Start with quarter rolls, then half and slowly work your way up to as many as you can get. Its the pressure on the elev that is the key and you will get that feel as you increase the amount of roll you carry . My early training techniques were quartrer stop, quarter stop, quarter sto p on the way up. Think of it as 4 point rolls in the vertical. Then halfs an d so forth. The key is an unloaded plane. If your carrying any G on the plan e in the vertical, you will know it. I can do 5 vert rolls in the S8 before I have to quit and hold it stopp ed before its time to fall off or do a hammer head. Takes a couple of seco nds for my brain to stop spinning. I have to stop rolls and stop brain spin ning before I get going back down hill again, else I get sick. At least for the RV, torque rolls seem impossible for me past one-ish Mike "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" Sent by: cc owner-rocket-list -server@matronics Subj ect .com Rocket-List: On vertical rolls.. . 06/26/2008 09:20 AM Please respond to rocket-list@matro nics.com ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it s eems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pil ots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most sen ior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat there and coached me thro ugh all the manuevers, without access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citab ria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used c ars. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"> http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com /c ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:45 AM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report To: rocket-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:32 AM 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report From: Michael W Stewart Pull up at any speed over 100. In the vertical look straight out the wing and keep yourself 90 to the ground all the way up. Elevator used only to maintain the vertical. Casual glances at airspeed, but always looking straight out that wing. I look left only from habit in an Extra that had the triangles on the win g left side. Just pick a side and stick to it. ~40kts feed left rudder, right aileron (NO ELEVATOR) Relax stick as the nose swings around. When you get better, let the speed get slower and slower and make your control inputs more kicking em in rather than feeding em in. Eventually you want to be stopped at the top and kick in the inputs. Thats when they l ook and FEEL beautiful. It is a very rewarding maneuver. Also as you get better, you will need opposite rudder when the nose swi ngs around and points down. Opposite rudder stops the nose from swinging pa st the vertical down line. Mike "Jim Stone" To Sent by: owner-rocket-list cc -server@matronics .com Subj ect Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr repo rt 06/26/2008 12:59 PM Please respond to rocket-list@matro nics.com Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please desc ribe how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report To: rocket-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:32 AM 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'> http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:27 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Awesome, thanks, Jim Louisville KY ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael W Stewart To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Pull up at any speed over 100. In the vertical look straight out the wing and keep yourself 90 to the ground all the way up. Elevator used only to maintain the vertical. Casual glances at airspeed, but always looking straight out that wing. I look left only from habit in an Extra that had the triangles on the wing left side. Just pick a side and stick to it. ~40kts feed left rudder, right aileron (NO ELEVATOR) Relax stick as the nose swings around. When you get better, let the speed get slower and slower and make your control inputs more kicking em in rather than feeding em in. Eventually you want to be stopped at the top and kick in the inputs. Thats when they look and FEEL beautiful. It is a very rewarding maneuver. Also as you get better, you will need opposite rudder when the nose swings around and points down. Opposite rudder stops the nose from swinging past the vertical down line. Mike "Jim Stone" ---06/26/2008 01:14:53 PM---Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, "Jim Stone" Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com 06/26/2008 12:59 PM Please respond to rocket-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report To: rocket-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:32 AM 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'>http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =========== ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =========== u>http://forums.matronics.com =========== ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:20 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Jim, - I practice hammerheads often, perfecting them requires a good feel for when to kick rudder.Waiting too long and it stalls vertical with a pronounced n ose drop. Too early and you skid uphill with a vertical rudder turn. - -I start from a vertical pull, crosschecking the wingtips and canopy rail 90 degrees to the horizon reducing throttle to 1/4, not idle. As airsp eed decays to a "potatoe" prior to dead stop I add power and kick full rudd er and full opposite aileron. The big IO-540 does the rest, bringing the no se around to pure vertical down, add power, recover. - Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket?- If so please descri be how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) - Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first- 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'>http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com /contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:11 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... Patty Wagstaff once stated vertical rolls were her hardest item to perfect. I believe her, in the F16, pulling vertical at 5000' and 500 knots the upp er limit of the airspace at 28K was the limit, not the number of rolls it w ould do! In the Rocket, it's maintaining a vertical line while rolling. The y can-be disorienting, but counting outloud usually helps and looking lef t and right to insure vertical... - Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Michael W Stewart wrote: From: Michael W Stewart Subject: Re: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... Toms well stated comments not withstanding. I recommend beginning your vert roll training slowly. They are very disorie nting. Start with quarter rolls, then half and slowly work your way up to a s many as you can get. Its the pressure on the elev that is the key and you will get that feel as you increase the amount of roll you carry. My early training techniques were quartrer stop, quarter stop, quarter stop on the w ay up. Think of it as 4 point rolls in the vertical. Then halfs and so fort h. The key is an unloaded plane. If your carrying any G on the plane in the vertical, you will know it. I can do 5 vert rolls in the S8 before I have to quit and hold it stopped b efore its time to fall off or do a hammer head. Takes a couple of seconds f or my brain to stop spinning. I have to stop rolls and stop brain spinning before I get going back down hill again, else I get sick. At least for the RV, torque rolls seem impossible for me past one-ish Mike "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" ---06/26/2008 09:35:22 AM---...just a question on whet her someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exi "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com 06/26/2008 09:20 AM Please respond to rocket-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best techni que for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I d o have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it seems dumb to try vertical r olls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs arou nd here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave gu y who just calmly sat there and coached me through all the manuevers, witho ut access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So mos t of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =========== ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =========== u>http://forums.matronics.com =========== ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:34 PM PST US From: CalBru@aol.com Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report I am assuming that the vert rolls and hammerheads require inverted fuel and oil systems? Cal B. **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report From: Danny Please, please be careful about learning this stuff on your own. I love acro but I've also lost a few friends to it. Hammerheads can end up as a very interesting entry into an inverted spin if you get too slow at the top and don't use enough opposite aileron. Get some training from a qualified acro instructor. It will be the best money you have ever spent and a real hoot to boot. Sermon over Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Michael W Stewart Sent: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 5:05 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Pull up at any speed over 100. In the vertical look straight out the wing and keep yourself 90 to the ground all the way up. Elevator used only to maintain the vertical. Casual glances at airspeed, but always looking straight out that wing. I look left only from habit in an Extra that had the triangles on the wing left side. Just pick a side and stick to it. ~40kts feed left rudder, right aileron (NO ELEVATOR) Relax stick as the nose swings around. When you get better, let the speed get slower and slower and make your control inputs more kicking em in rather than feeding em in. Eventually you want to be stopped at the top and kick in the inputs. Thats when they look and FEEL beautiful. It is a very rewarding maneuver. Also as you get better, you will need opposite rudder when the nose swings around and points down. Opposite rudder stops the nose from swinging past the vertical down line. Mike "Jim Stone" ---06/26/2008 01:14:53 PM---Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, "Jim Stone" Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com 06/26/2008 12:59 PM Please respond to rocket-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D============================================ href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 3D============================================ href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D============================================ href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D============================================ ==================================== ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List ==================================== u>http://forums.matronics.com ==================================== ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== [Image Removed] ==================================== ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== [Image Removed] [Image Removed] ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:11 PM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting other Rocket pilots..... From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" Hmmmm. Upon reflection: 1. Many thanks for the technique advice, you guys, I appreciate it, and wil give it a go......when.... 2. I'm satisfied I can do it safely, and recover from anything. I thought I could, but maybe Tom's right. I have not, in fact, done inverted spin recoveries in the Rocket, although I spun the Citabria till my instructor got sick. I read about the recent Rocket accident, (TX?) and I was very sorry to hear about it. I've lost a few friends, and it's never easy. So easy to forget the risks we deal with, although a near-fatal training accident 7 years ago solved that problem for me. I guess, at the back of my mind, I was sort guessing that I "knew" the cause of the accident (low level stunting) whereas in fact, of course, I don't. My hubris, I guess, and assumptions based on reading lots of NTSB reports. But Tom's right - we don't know, yet. It's not "taking the fun out of it", Tom, it's acknowledging that risk management is the inseparable flipside of the aviation coin, and I appreciate your thoughts. I'll wait till Jim, my military friend, is back from deployment, and we'll go and push the envelope together. Thanks again for the advice. You know, I mainly do short-strip/rough strip/NZ mountain flying in my Rocket, which is lots of fun. I live just on the verge of the Southern Alps, so there are plenty of glaciers, mountains, "canyons" and so on to go and fly around/over/thru. This may sound sacrilegous, and I'm sorry and surprised to have to say it, but I find aeros in the Rocket a bit boring compared to that. Any suggestions as to other interesting aerobatic manuevers in the Rocket? I find it bizarre that I find aeros a tad boring in the Rocket, and I wonder if I'm just doing the wrong stuff. Admittedly I'm only doing the more basic manuevres. Any thoughts/suggestions? And any aerobatically (or not) flying Rocket pilots interested in taking me up and showing me what you and YOUR Rocket get up to, on my dime, (at $5.50 a gallon it BETTER be on my dime, but you try running a 340!) next time I'm in the US? I have a Cessna 340 based north of LA, so I get around the US a bit. Even did a diversionary landing into Apple Valley on our last X/C to Houston, and was thinking, damn, I know one of the Rocketeers lives here - (is it Tom? wasn't sure) as our fuel pressure gauge filled up with, er, FUEL! - but we met a capable and friendly mechanic quickly, tied off the lines before the aeroplane blew up, and were on our way to Houston within an hour. Anyway. Next time I'm tooling around the US/Western Canada, would enjoy meeting and maybe flying with (or not) other Rocketeers, particularly if you're doing interesting aerobatic stuff in your Rocket, but no worries if not. I just became the second Rocket owner in NZ, as one has finally been built in-country, and there's another just been started down my way, but I've put 400 hours on mine without anyone to compare notes with. Would enjoy doing so next time I'm in North America. Feel free to email me offlist on andrew@activenewzealand.com. Andrew ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Martin Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:01 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... Andrew I am not trying to take the fun out of flying but our rocket community had a loss of two people last weekend that we should all take note of. There are no official reports out yet but here is what is known from the news media and from pictures. The aircraft was seen to be doing aerobatics before the accident. The aircraft landed upside down with no sign of skid marks. This would lead one to believe it was in an inverted spin. What we need to do is to find out what type of situation would have caused this scenario. Be careful, these are fun fast airplanes that can do aerobatics, but when things go wrong they go wrong fast. Tom Martin ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: June 26, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it seems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat there and coached me through all the manuevers, without access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ________________________________ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:36 PM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: ...and a note on safety.... From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" Re learning acro on your own, Danny, I agree. I was exploring the possibility of adding new manuevres to a base of already having done quite a lot of dual aerobatic training, starting over 10 years ago. I'm no expert, but can do the basics reasonably safely, I think. So, for instance, we never did 4 point rolls, dual, but I was happy enough learning on my own, with a bit of reading, cos it looks awfully like a slightly jerky aileron roll to me. Vertical plane manuevers, though, you're probably right. I guess that's an advantage of an online "community" - you can think out loud before you actually go and DO (fly) anything. Problem is, like I said, there are no truly dual capable Rockets in NZ - my military guy is very brave, I think, sitting back there calmly coaching me, with no rudders. But it's all good - I'll wait till he gets back.... As for that F16 pull vertical for 28,000 feet routine, my word. Can't be too many aircraft that make the Rocket look slow, but that's one of them. I'd love to try that - reckon if I just rang up the USAF they'd give me a go? :) Although (warning, editorial coming up) I've flown a number of military jet trainers - Soko Galeb, L-39, Fouga, T-33 - and if I had to choose ONE aircraft, with an unlimited fuel budget, I'd choose a Rocket over any of them. It's hard to describe why, exactly, but there's something about 4000 fpm in the Rocket that seems totally different to 4000 fpm in the Soko. I guess it comes down to responsiveness & subtlety, or something. But yeah, you'd prise my Rocket out of my cold, dead hands, or whatever it is you Americans say :) Andrew ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Martin Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:01 AM Subject: RE: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... Andrew I am not trying to take the fun out of flying but our rocket community had a loss of two people last weekend that we should all take note of. There are no official reports out yet but here is what is known from the news media and from pictures. The aircraft was seen to be doing aerobatics before the accident. The aircraft landed upside down with no sign of skid marks. This would lead one to believe it was in an inverted spin. What we need to do is to find out what type of situation would have caused this scenario. Be careful, these are fun fast airplanes that can do aerobatics, but when things go wrong they go wrong fast. Tom Martin ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: June 26, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it seems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat there and coached me through all the manuevers, without access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ________________________________ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron h ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Thanks Smokey, Full rudder into and aileron opposite sure sounds like pro spin controls but I do realize they are momentary and must be neutralized. Keeping the elevator neutral will help with avoiding a spin. Thanks for your technique and I may strap on a chute soon and give it a try. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Jim, I practice hammerheads often, perfecting them requires a good feel for when to kick rudder.Waiting too long and it stalls vertical with a pronounced nose drop. Too early and you skid uphill with a vertical rudder turn. I start from a vertical pull, crosschecking the wingtips and canopy rail 90 degrees to the horizon reducing throttle to 1/4, not idle. As airspeed decays to a "potatoe" prior to dead stop I add power and kick full rudder and full opposite aileron. The big IO-540 does the rest, bringing the nose around to pure vertical down, add power, recover. Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report To: rocket-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 11:59 AM Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report To: rocket-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:32 AM 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'>http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:27 PM PST US From: "Jim Stone" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Inverted oil, fuel and perhaps a counterweighted prop would be good. Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: CalBru@aol.com To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report I am assuming that the vert rolls and hammerheads require inverted fuel and oil systems? Cal B. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:14 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting other Rocket pilots..... Next time you are in APV stop by. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: ACTIVE NZ - Andrew To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:15 PM Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting other Rocket pilots..... Hmmmm. Upon reflection: 1. Many thanks for the technique advice, you guys, I appreciate it, and wil give it a go......when.... 2. I'm satisfied I can do it safely, and recover from anything. I thought I could, but maybe Tom's right. I have not, in fact, done inverted spin recoveries in the Rocket, although I spun the Citabria till my instructor got sick. I read about the recent Rocket accident, (TX?) and I was very sorry to hear about it. I've lost a few friends, and it's never easy. So easy to forget the risks we deal with, although a near-fatal training accident 7 years ago solved that problem for me. I guess, at the back of my mind, I was sort guessing that I "knew" the cause of the accident (low level stunting) whereas in fact, of course, I don't. My hubris, I guess, and assumptions based on reading lots of NTSB reports. But Tom's right - we don't know, yet. It's not "taking the fun out of it", Tom, it's acknowledging that risk management is the inseparable flipside of the aviation coin, and I appreciate your thoughts. I'll wait till Jim, my military friend, is back from deployment, and we'll go and push the envelope together. Thanks again for the advice. You know, I mainly do short-strip/rough strip/NZ mountain flying in my Rocket, which is lots of fun. I live just on the verge of the Southern Alps, so there are plenty of glaciers, mountains, "canyons" and so on to go and fly around/over/thru. This may sound sacrilegous, and I'm sorry and surprised to have to say it, but I find aeros in the Rocket a bit boring compared to that. Any suggestions as to other interesting aerobatic manuevers in the Rocket? I find it bizarre that I find aeros a tad boring in the Rocket, and I wonder if I'm just doing the wrong stuff. Admittedly I'm only doing the more basic manuevres. Any thoughts/suggestions? And any aerobatically (or not) flying Rocket pilots interested in taking me up and showing me what you and YOUR Rocket get up to, on my dime, (at $5.50 a gallon it BETTER be on my dime, but you try running a 340!) next time I'm in the US? I have a Cessna 340 based north of LA, so I get around the US a bit. Even did a diversionary landing into Apple Valley on our last X/C to Houston, and was thinking, damn, I know one of the Rocketeers lives here - (is it Tom? wasn't sure) as our fuel pressure gauge filled up with, er, FUEL! - but we met a capable and friendly mechanic quickly, tied off the lines before the aeroplane blew up, and were on our way to Houston within an hour. Anyway. Next time I'm tooling around the US/Western Canada, would enjoy meeting and maybe flying with (or not) other Rocketeers, particularly if you're doing interesting aerobatic stuff in your Rocket, but no worries if not. I just became the second Rocket owner in NZ, as one has finally been built in-country, and there's another just been started down my way, but I've put 400 hours on mine without anyone to compare notes with. Would enjoy doing so next time I'm in North America. Feel free to email me offlist on andrew@activenewzealand.com. Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Martin Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:01 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... Andrew I am not trying to take the fun out of flying but our rocket community had a loss of two people last weekend that we should all take note of. There are no official reports out yet but here is what is known from the news media and from pictures. The aircraft was seen to be doing aerobatics before the accident. The aircraft landed upside down with no sign of skid marks. This would lead one to believe it was in an inverted spin. What we need to do is to find out what type of situation would have caused this scenario. Be careful, these are fun fast airplanes that can do aerobatics, but when things go wrong they go wrong fast. Tom Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Sent: June 26, 2008 9:21 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls... ...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed, technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it seems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat there and coached me through all the manuevers, without access to rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do vertical rolls very well. Anyway... I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers? Andrew, in NZ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Im7shannon@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. Checked by AVG. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:28 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: RE: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Well, you attached seven pictures and they were all blank. But then the file names werer "blank" something, I should've known. _____ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Please, please be careful about learning this stuff on your own. I love acro but I've also lost a few friends to it. Hammerheads can end up as a very interesting entry into an inverted spin if you get too slow at the top and don't use enough opposite aileron. Get some training from a qualified acro instructor. It will be the best money you have ever spent and a real hoot to boot. Sermon over Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Michael W Stewart Sent: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 5:05 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Pull up at any speed over 100. In the vertical look straight out the wing and keep yourself 90 to the ground all the way up. Elevator used only to maintain the vertical. Casual glances at airspeed, but always looking straight out that wing. I look left only from habit in an Extra that had the triangles on the wing left side. Just pick a side and stick to it. ~40kts feed left rudder, right aileron (NO ELEVATOR) Relax stick as the nose swings around. When you get better, let the speed get slower and slower and make your control inputs more kicking em in rather than feeding em in. Eventually you want to be stopped at the top and kick in the inputs. Thats when they look and FEEL beautiful. It is a very rewarding maneuver. Also as you get better, you will need opposite rudder when the nose swings around and points down. Opposite rudder stops the nose from swinging past the vertical down line. Mike Inactive hide details for "Jim Stone" ---06/26/2008 01:14:53 PM---Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, "Jim Stone" Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com 06/26/2008 12:59 PM Please respond to rocket-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Anyone able to do a nice Hammerhead in their Rocket? If so please describe how you do it. Thanks, Jim Stone ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:36 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :) Smokey --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com < Im7shannon@aol.com> wrote: From: Im7shannon@aol.com < Im7shannon@aol.com> Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows: 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far. 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do? Kevin _____ Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 3D=========================3 D=================== href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'>http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Rocket-List 3D=========================3 D=================== href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com "'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=========================3 D=================== href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution 3D=========================3 D=================== ==================================== ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List ==================================== u>http://forums.matronics.com ==================================== ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==================================== [Image Removed] _____ Get the Moviefone Toolbar . 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