Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: Rockets For Sale (XIUYAN1)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/27/08 (capmrp)
3. 06:11 AM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/27/08 (capmrp)
4. 01:58 PM - Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Rob Ray)
5. 07:36 PM - safety seminar (Frazier, Vincent A)
6. 10:44 PM - Re: 8 versus 4 tail ? (Im7shannon@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rockets For Sale |
Luckily I saw the website, I wish all the people happy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190234#190234
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/27/08 |
Jeff,
This is the kind of thinking that helps save lives and airframes and
all aviation communities need more of it.
The more exposure I get to this kind stand-down thinking, the safer I
am.
I'll be there if I make it to OSH this year.
R/
Mike P.
MM-1
F-1
Waterloo, Iowa
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/27/08 |
Doug,
Are you reading this?
I thought you could inject some useful thinking along this guy's line.
When I get closer w/ my F-1, I'd like to visit w/ you and your F-1 for
some refresher time.
R/
pappy
On Jun 28, 2008, at 1:57 AM, Rocket-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
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> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 06/27/08: 8
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:05 AM - ACRO in Rockets (Jeff Linebaugh)
> 2. 06:05 AM - Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Jeff Linebaugh)
> 3. 07:44 AM - Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (ACTIVE NZ -
> Andrew)
> 4. 08:53 AM - Re: first10 hr report (Im7shannon@aol.com)
> 5. 11:04 AM - 8 versus 4 tail ? (Gerry Filby)
> 6. 02:09 PM - Re: 8 versus 4 tail ? (Tom Gummo)
> 7. 02:11 PM - Re: first10 hr report (Tom Gummo)
> 8. 07:59 PM - Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Jim Stone)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:05:38 AM PST US
> From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Rocket-List: ACRO in Rockets
>
>
> Andrew and all...
>
> Tom and Danny did a nice job of trying to discourage acro without
> Qualified
> Instruction, but let me tag a few more things on to this...
>
> 1) Don't believe everything you read... (Insurance agents must be
> horrified to read people learning about acro on the internet...!)
> Example:
> On the Rocket forum, on individual advised that recovering from an
> inverted
> spin is "basically the same" as a normal spin... Couldn't be more
> untrue!
> Falling out of a vertical maneuver, with crossed controls is a
> recipe for a
> spin...upright or inverted...depending on which way it goes... Do
> you know
> the source that you are receiving instruction from?
>
> 2) Most Acro CFIs teach in Citabrias/Decathlons or Pitts. Acro in a
> rocket
> is quite different due to low drag/high power. Techniques that work
> in those
> airplanes could be dangerous in a rocket without applying a healthy
> dose of
> knowledge/experience. An Extra is a better tool to learn by...
> High
> performance jet jocks (Smokey Ray and others here excepted! ;^)
> typically
> leave their feet flat on the floor and don't understand p-factor or
> torque.
>
> 3) My oil pressure drops quickly on vertical up-lines! I have
> inverted oil
> in my Rocket (Christen system) and an audible warning when oil
> pressure
> drops below 30. I hate hearing that noise! As a result, I avoid
> sustained
> vertical lines, hammerheads, left knife-edge (right is OK!) and any
> sustained "zero G" flight. (Inverted flight is fine, positive G is
> fine, but
> hanging around zero isn't.) If you are worrying about flying the
> airplane
> on that up-line, watching airspeed, etc, are you going to be good
> about
> checking your oil pressure too?!
>
> I am all for fun...the Rocket is a great acro ship and I enjoy acro
> nearly
> every flight. I learn something every time I fly it. Risk assessment
> is
> something we all must do. Unfortunately, reading the accident
> reports, we
> don't do it well, especially when our egos are involved. What's the
> number
> one accident cause in "sport" aviation? Please don't just "give it
> a try"!
>
>
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net
> F1 Rocket "Sport"
> Collierville, TN
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:05:38 AM PST US
> From: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
>
> Anybody up for a "sit down and chat" style safety seminar at OSH? I
> think it
> would be good to see if we could brainstorm some safety ideas to
> help each
> other stay out of trouble.
>
> About a year ago, I set up a deal with an insurer to give a 10%
> discount for
> taking a formal initial and annual recurrent training course in the
> rocket.
> To date exactly "NOBODY" has taken advantage of the program! Is it
> because
> we are all "better" than to need that? (I know I'm not that good...)
> Is it
> that the training program is worthless? (If so, I'd sure like
> suggestions on
> how to make it better!) Is it that the 10% discount won't even pay
> for the
> gas to do the training...probably? Oh well...
>
> In any case, I know I could learn from others experiences in the
> rocket.
> Perhaps we could all come with one "there I was" rocket story to
> share... ya
> know...one that we could all benefit from? Flying or maintenance
> related?
>
> In the Yak community I compiled a summary of all the accidents and
> incidents
> I could find in those particular types. The hope was that if we knew
> where
> the trouble areas were maybe we could avoid repeating the same errors.
> Perhaps it would be revealing to do the same for the Rocket? I think
> it
> would show that the airplane was not at fault in virtually all cases
> for the
> Rocket. Perhaps we should all look each other in the eye and remind
> ourselves to be weary of the "control actuator" in our aircraft...
>
> Whaddaya guys think? Could we find an hour during the week to
> dedicate to
> safety and accident prevention?
> _________________
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net <mailto:jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net>
> F1 "Sport" #33, 135 hours of shear joy...
> Collierville, TN
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:44:55 AM PST US
> Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
> From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew@nzactive.com>
>
> Count me in, for sure if I actually make it to OSH.
>
> And thx for the thoughts, Jeff. I hear ya. NB, I said most of my
> "dual"
> instruction was in the Citabria (10 hours or so of dual aerobatic
> training) but I've also had a few sessions of dual aerobatic
> "coaching"
> in the Rocket, a little dual aero stuff in my RV-4....and have done
> lots
> of solo aeros in the Rocket, to the point that, as I have
> embarrassedly
> admitted, that I find it a bit boring. (And am therefore wondering
> what
> I'm doing wrong! It's a ROCKET!!) . So, while I think you guys are
> basically correct, and I will, indeed, get some training sorted out
> for
> pushing on with more interesting manuevres, I do wonder if there's a
> time and a place for extending your aerobatic envelope, very
> carefully,
> very gently, on your own. I mean, you can't get dual for every single
> experience you'll face as a pilot, right? I'm certainly not proposing
> jumping into aerobatics without training - I actually have quite a bit
> of aerobatic training already. So presumably once you understand the
> basic principles of aerobatic flying, and have a fair amount of time
> in
> type with the brown stuff up and the blue stuff down....well, I'm not
> sure. I certainly agree, unreservedly, with the concept of taking
> safely seriously, getting lots of training, and definitely NOT
> believing
> everything you read. And if there were any Rocket-qualified
> instructors
> in NZ I'd certainly get more instruction from them....and ditto, if I
> knew anyone who could give dual in an Extra. Except I don't think we
> have any in New Zealand. It's, um, a small country! The entire
> population of NZ is about the same as San Diego.
>
> I think the idea of an accident/incident summary for Rockets is an
> excellent one, and would be happy to help, Jeff. I've personally
> trawled
> the NTSB records pretty comprehensively, for all sorts of aircraft,
> and
> it seems that aerobatics/inpromptu airshows/buzzjobs are an
> extraordinarily high proportion of the total in many high performance
> experimentals. (For a larger sample group, for instance, take a quick
> squiz at the RV4 records on the NTSB database.) Pilot error can happen
> to all of us - to err is human - and yes, it seems that most accidents
> seem to be caused by pilot error, and we need to do our damndest to
> avoid that, particularly in these high performance machines. Still, I
> worry a little about the aircraft as well - Richard Van Grunsven
> designed an extraordinary series of aircraft, but I understand that he
> doesn't approve of his airframes being hotted up and hauled through
> the
> air a la Rocket....and he, surely, knows a fair bit about aeronautical
> design. My main fear is overstressing my tail feathers. Was the
> aircraft
> REALLY designed to have a VNE as high as a Rocket? How about VNO and
> VA?
> Anyone know how many Rocket accidents have involved vertical or
> horizontal stabiliser failure?
>
> For the record, with 400 happy hours of Rocket time under my belt,
> mainly mountain flying, I don't think there are unsafe aircraft, per
> se.
> I just wonder if they have any weak points, apart from the obvious
> ones
> like being a little nose heavy, and, um, well, that's it for weak
> points. Rockets are great machines! But seriously, anyone care to
> comment on the strength of the HRII tail, which as far as I know is
> stock RV4? Was the tail beefed up for the F1???
>
> Andrew
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Linebaugh
> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:16 AM
> Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
>
>
> Anybody up for a "sit down and chat" style safety seminar at OSH? I
> think it would be good to see if we could brainstorm some safety ideas
> to help each other stay out of trouble.
>
> About a year ago, I set up a deal with an insurer to give a 10%
> discount
> for taking a formal initial and annual recurrent training course in
> the
> rocket. To date exactly "NOBODY" has taken advantage of the program!
> Is
> it because we are all "better" than to need that? (I know I'm not that
> good...) Is it that the training program is worthless? (If so, I'd
> sure
> like suggestions on how to make it better!) Is it that the 10%
> discount
> won't even pay for the gas to do the training...probably? Oh well...
>
> In any case, I know I could learn from others experiences in the
> rocket.
> Perhaps we could all come with one "there I was" rocket story to
> share... ya know...one that we could all benefit from? Flying or
> maintenance related?
>
> In the Yak community I compiled a summary of all the accidents and
> incidents I could find in those particular types. The hope was that if
> we knew where the trouble areas were maybe we could avoid repeating
> the
> same errors. Perhaps it would be revealing to do the same for the
> Rocket? I think it would show that the airplane was not at fault in
> virtually all cases for the Rocket. Perhaps we should all look each
> other in the eye and remind ourselves to be weary of the "control
> actuator" in our aircraft...
>
> Whaddaya guys think? Could we find an hour during the week to dedicate
> to safety and accident prevention?
> _________________
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net
> F1 "Sport" #33, 135 hours of shear joy...
> Collierville, TN
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:53:57 AM PST US
> From: Im7shannon@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report
>
>
> One other thing to consider about safety, you're all gonna think I
> am a dumb
> ass when you read this but take the rear stick out first before you do
> anything other than straight and level. My back seat cushion went
> wandering around
>
> by itself in the cabin the other day and wound up lodged between
> the stick
> and the side of the fuse. I did not know what was going on until I
> landed, I
> thought I bent something in the airframe, but I had to fly home 30
> miles
> pushing the stick left very hard to stay level. It was an
> interesting landing
>
> too, lucky there was no wind!
> I took the rear stick out and went flying again just to make sure my
> airplane still worked!
> be safe out there guys and make sure you have plenty of altitude to
> recover
> from anything you are unsure of.
> Kevin Shannon
> 18 hours and the grin keeps getting bigger..
>
> Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :)
> Smokey
>
> --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com <Im7shannon@aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: Im7shannon@aol.com <Im7shannon@aol.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report
>
>
> 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows:
> 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far.
> 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do?
> Kevin
>
>
> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
> fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007
> )
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:04:51 AM PST US
> From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf@gerf.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: 8 versus 4 tail ?
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Any of you flying the 8 tail on your HR rather than the 4's tail ?
> Curious
> if there's any experiences that will sway me beyond the price and
> pre-punched convenience.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Gerry.
>
>
> (Flying an RV-9, was going to build an RV-10, but decided I could
> put the
> same IO-540 to better use :D)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:09:28 PM PST US
> From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: 8 versus 4 tail ?
>
> Excellent, thinking.
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
> Harmon Rocket-II
>
> do not archive
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gerry Filby
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:00 AM
> Subject: Rocket-List: 8 versus 4 tail ?
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Any of you flying the 8 tail on your HR rather than the 4's tail ?
> Curious if there's any experiences that will sway me beyond the price
> and pre-punched convenience.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Gerry.
>
>
> (Flying an RV-9, was going to build an RV-10, but decided I could put
> the same IO-540 to better use :D)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 02:11:15 PM PST US
> From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report
>
> I always remove the lower rear seat when flying solo. It is just held
> in place with Velcro. The rear seatback is held in by connecting the
> shoulder hardness and seat belt.
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
> Harmon Rocket-II
>
> do not archive
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Im7shannon@aol.com
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 8:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: first10 hr report
>
>
> One other thing to consider about safety, you're all gonna think I am
> a dumb ass when you read this but take the rear stick out first before
> you do anything other than straight and level. My back seat cushion
> went
> wandering around by itself in the cabin the other day and wound up
> lodged between the stick and the side of the fuse. I did not know what
> was going on until I landed, I thought I bent something in the
> airframe,
> but I had to fly home 30 miles pushing the stick left very hard to
> stay
> level. It was an interesting landing too, lucky there was no wind!
> I took the rear stick out and went flying again just to make sure my
> airplane still worked!
> be safe out there guys and make sure you have plenty of altitude to
> recover from anything you are unsure of.
> Kevin Shannon
> 18 hours and the grin keeps getting bigger..
> Three, but the third ends up vertical in the other direction :)
>
>
> Smokey
>
> --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Im7shannon@aol.com <Im7shannon@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Im7shannon@aol.com <Im7shannon@aol.com>
> Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:32 AM
>
>
> 450KS first 15 hour report is as follows:
> 1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far.
> 2. Hey Smokey how many can you do?
> Kevin
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used
> cars.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:59:50 PM PST US
> From: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
>
> Great idea Jeff,
> Count me in.
> Jim Stone
> 110 hrs HRII
> Louisville KY
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Linebaugh
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:02 AM
> Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
>
>
> Anybody up for a "sit down and chat" style safety seminar at OSH? I
> think it would be good to see if we could brainstorm some safety ideas
> to help each other stay out of trouble.
>
> About a year ago, I set up a deal with an insurer to give a 10%
> discount for taking a formal initial and annual recurrent training
> course in the rocket. To date exactly "NOBODY" has taken advantage of
> the program! Is it because we are all "better" than to need that? (I
> know I'm not that good...) Is it that the training program is
> worthless?
> (If so, I'd sure like suggestions on how to make it better!) Is it
> that
> the 10% discount won't even pay for the gas to do the
> training...probably? Oh well...
>
> In any case, I know I could learn from others experiences in the
> rocket. Perhaps we could all come with one "there I was" rocket
> story to
> share... ya know...one that we could all benefit from? Flying or
> maintenance related?
>
> In the Yak community I compiled a summary of all the accidents and
> incidents I could find in those particular types. The hope was that if
> we knew where the trouble areas were maybe we could avoid repeating
> the
> same errors. Perhaps it would be revealing to do the same for the
> Rocket? I think it would show that the airplane was not at fault in
> virtually all cases for the Rocket. Perhaps we should all look each
> other in the eye and remind ourselves to be weary of the "control
> actuator" in our aircraft...
>
> Whaddaya guys think? Could we find an hour during the week to
> dedicate
> to safety and accident prevention?
> _________________
> Jeff Linebaugh
> jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net
> F1 "Sport" #33, 135 hours of shear joy...
> Collierville, TN
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
Two's in Jeff, I'll be there most of the week. I'm staying with my wingman
from OIF who is currently the 12AF Chief of safety and owns an RV4. He is i
nterested and maybe can help...
Smokey
--- On Fri, 6/27/08, Jim Stone <jrstone@insightbb.com> wrote:
From: Jim Stone <jrstone@insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
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Great idea Jeff,
Count me in.
Jim Stone
110 hrs HRII
Louisville KY
----- Original Message -----
From:
Jeff Linebaugh
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:02 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Safety
Seminar at OSH
Anybody
up for a "sit down and chat" style safety seminar at OSH? I think it woul
d be
good to see if we could brainstorm some safety ideas to help each other s
tay
out of trouble.
About a year ago, I
set up a deal with an insurer to give a 10% discount for taking a formal
initial and annual recurrent training course in the rocket. To date exact
ly
"NOBODY" has taken advantage of the program! Is it because we are all "be
tter"
than to need that? (I know I'm not that good...) Is it that the training
program is worthless? (If so, I'd sure like suggestions on how to make it
better!) Is it that the 10% discount won't even pay for the gas to do the
training...probably? Oh well...
In any case, I know I
could learn from others experiences in the rocket. Perhaps we could all c
ome
with one "there I was" rocket story to share... ya know...one that we cou
ld
all benefit from? Flying or maintenance related?
In the Yak community I
compiled a summary of all the accidents and incidents I could find in tho
se
particular types. The hope was that if we knew where the trouble areas we
re
maybe we could avoid repeating the same errors. Perhaps it would be revea
ling
to do the same for the Rocket? I think it would show that the airplane wa
s not
at fault in virtually all cases for the Rocket. Perhaps we should all loo
k
each other in the eye and remind ourselves to be weary of the "control
actuator" in our aircraft...
Whaddaya guys think?
Could we find an hour during the week to dedicate to safety and accident
prevention?
_________________
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@bellsouth.net
F1 "Sport" #33, 135
hours of shear joy...
Collierville,
TN
-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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Jeff,
I think it's a great idea. I'll be there... with my mouth shut.
Vince
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 8 versus 4 tail ? |
I put a Cessna 150 tail on mine.
Kevin N450KS
do not archive
Hi Folks,
Any of you flying the 8 tail on your HR rather than the 4=99s tail ?
Curious
if there=99s any experiences that will sway me beyond the price and p
re-punched
convenience.
Regards,
Gerry.
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050
000000007)
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