Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:46 AM - Re: On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting other Rocket pilots..... (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew)
2. 12:47 PM - Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Larry James)
3. 05:08 PM - Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Fred Weaver)
4. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Jim Stone)
5. 10:08 PM - Re: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (nico css)
6. 10:14 PM - Re: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew)
7. 10:51 PM - Re: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH (Tom Gummo)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and meeting |
other Rocket pilots.....
Will do, Tom. It's real close to Agua Dulce, where my 340 is based right
now.
Andrew
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gummo
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls, recovering from them, and
meeting other Rocket pilots.....
Next time you are in APV stop by.
Tom "GummiBear" Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: ACTIVE NZ - Andrew <mailto:andrew@nzactive.com>
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls, recovering from them,
and meeting other Rocket pilots.....
Hmmmm. Upon reflection:
1. Many thanks for the technique advice, you guys, I appreciate
it, and wil give it a go......when....
2. I'm satisfied I can do it safely, and recover from anything.
I thought I could, but maybe Tom's right. I have not, in fact, done
inverted spin recoveries in the Rocket, although I spun the Citabria
till my instructor got sick. I read about the recent Rocket accident,
(TX?) and I was very sorry to hear about it. I've lost a few friends,
and it's never easy. So easy to forget the risks we deal with, although
a near-fatal training accident 7 years ago solved that problem for me. I
guess, at the back of my mind,
I was sort guessing that I "knew" the cause of the accident (low
level stunting) whereas in fact, of course, I don't. My hubris, I guess,
and assumptions based on reading lots of NTSB reports. But Tom's right -
we don't know, yet. It's not "taking the fun out of it", Tom, it's
acknowledging that risk management is the inseparable flipside of the
aviation coin, and I appreciate your thoughts. I'll wait till Jim, my
military friend, is back from deployment, and we'll go and push the
envelope together. Thanks again for the advice.
You know, I mainly do short-strip/rough strip/NZ mountain flying
in my Rocket, which is lots of fun. I live just on the verge of the
Southern Alps, so there are plenty of glaciers, mountains, "canyons" and
so on to go and fly around/over/thru. This may sound sacrilegous, and
I'm sorry and surprised to have to say it, but I find aeros in the
Rocket a bit boring compared to that. Any suggestions as to other
interesting aerobatic manuevers in the Rocket? I find it bizarre that I
find aeros a tad boring in the Rocket, and I wonder if I'm just doing
the wrong stuff. Admittedly I'm only doing the more basic manuevres. Any
thoughts/suggestions?
And any aerobatically (or not) flying Rocket pilots interested
in taking me up and showing me what you and YOUR Rocket get up to, on my
dime, (at $5.50 a gallon it BETTER be on my dime, but you try running a
340!) next time I'm in the US? I have a Cessna 340 based north of LA, so
I get around the US a bit. Even did a diversionary landing into Apple
Valley on our last X/C to Houston, and was thinking, damn, I know one of
the Rocketeers lives here - (is it Tom? wasn't sure) as our fuel
pressure gauge filled up with, er, FUEL! - but we met a capable and
friendly mechanic quickly, tied off the lines before the aeroplane blew
up, and were on our way to Houston within an hour. Anyway. Next time I'm
tooling around the US/Western Canada, would enjoy meeting and maybe
flying with (or not) other Rocketeers, particularly if you're doing
interesting aerobatic stuff in your Rocket, but no worries if not. I
just became the second Rocket owner in NZ, as one has finally been built
in-country, and there's another just been started down my way, but I've
put 400 hours on mine without anyone to compare notes with. Would enjoy
doing so next time I'm in North America. Feel free to email me offlist
on andrew@activenewzealand.com.
Andrew
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Martin
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:01 AM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls...
Andrew
I am not trying to take the fun out of flying but
our rocket community had a loss of two people last weekend that we
should all take note of. There are no official reports out yet but here
is what is known from the news media and from pictures. The aircraft
was seen to be doing aerobatics before the accident. The aircraft
landed upside down with no sign of skid marks. This would lead one to
believe it was in an inverted spin. What we need to do is to find out
what type of situation would have caused this scenario. Be careful,
these are fun fast airplanes that can do aerobatics, but when things go
wrong they go wrong fast.
Tom Martin
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: June 26, 2008 9:21 AM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: Rocket-List: On vertical rolls...
...just a question on whether someone-who-knows can tell me the
best technique for vertical rolls in a Rocket. Entry speed, exit speed,
technique? I do have an aerobatic rating (required in NZ), and already
do loops, rolls, & various combinations thereof, stall turns, as well a
reasonable amount of spin training, botched manuever recovery, etc, so I
feel happy enough to go out and give it a go (but would listen, if it
seems dumb to try vertical rolls without an appropriate CFI - there's
old pilots, and bold pilots.....) My problem with dual in my HRII is
that I have a. no appropriate CFIs around here and b. no rudder pedals
in the rear, so my aero instruction in the Rocket was with one of our
Air Force's most senior instructors...a brave guy who just calmly sat
there and coached me through all the manuevers, without access to
rudders...but he's current off on deployment somewhere. So most of my
dual aerobatics has been in a Citabria, which of course doesn't do
vertical rolls very well. Anyway...
I haven't done vertical rolls yet. Any pointers?
Andrew, in NZ...
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Im7shannon@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:46 PM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: Rocket-List: first10 hr report
450KS first 15 hour report is as follows:
1. Vertical rolls are the most fun so far.
2. Hey Smokey how many can you do?
Kevin
________________________________
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient
used cars <http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007> .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
h
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG.
Checked by AVG.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
h
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
Count me in too. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle may be just getting the
word out ???
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon (flying to OSH 2008)
Rocket (still in basement)
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
To all in the Rocket community........
I'm sure this "safety thing" will make some of the builders
happy.....and maybe some of the flyers too.
Sadly, the thing is: The Rocket is getting a bad rap. It's such a nice
plane to fly. Good manners and habits..... Flies like a good plane should.
Sadly, we have lost a few nice planes and probably some nice people
too.... To accidents that had nothing to do with the safe and good
flying capabilities of the Rocket. The Harmon Rocket is a really nice
plane to fly. It's not tricky or twitchy.... It's just a fabulous
airplane that some people just get carried away with and end up making a
pretty huge divot. I hope this safety seminar isn't aimed at trying to
placate some insurance company or program.
A Rocket is no different than a good/great Gun... In most hands, it is
a wonderful thing.
Personally, I hate attending "Safety Seminars" because it always seems
they are for all the wrong reasons....... A few people got a hold of a
good airplane and then decided to test their skill level & judgement.
Unfortunately for those of us that continue to fly the Rocket, we have
to deal with "their" decisions and the results "they" produced.
Just my two cents.......
Weav
Larry James wrote:
>
> Count me in too. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle may be just getting
> the word out ???
>
>
>
> Larry E. James
>
> Bellevue, WA
>
> Super Decathlon (flying to OSH 2008)
>
> Rocket (still in basement)
>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
Well said Fred,
I nominate you to lead the "Safety Seminar" and make it what YOU think
it should be. I'll be glad to help.
All those in favor?
Jim Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:05 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
To all in the Rocket community........
I'm sure this "safety thing" will make some of the builders
happy.....and maybe some of the flyers too.
Sadly, the thing is: The Rocket is getting a bad rap. It's such a nice
plane to fly. Good manners and habits..... Flies like a good plane
should.
Sadly, we have lost a few nice planes and probably some nice people
too.... To accidents that had nothing to do with the safe and good
flying capabilities of the Rocket. The Harmon Rocket is a really nice
plane to fly. It's not tricky or twitchy.... It's just a fabulous
airplane that some people just get carried away with and end up making a
pretty huge divot. I hope this safety seminar isn't aimed at trying to
placate some insurance company or program.
A Rocket is no different than a good/great Gun... In most hands, it
is a wonderful thing.
Personally, I hate attending "Safety Seminars" because it always seems
they are for all the wrong reasons....... A few people got a hold of a
good airplane and then decided to test their skill level & judgement.
Unfortunately for those of us that continue to fly the Rocket, we have
to deal with "their" decisions and the results "they" produced.
Just my two cents.......
Weav
Larry James wrote:
Count me in too. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle may be just
getting the word out ???
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon (flying to OSH 2008)
Rocket (still in basement)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Checked by AVG.
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
I agree to some extent with what you are saying, except the antipathy with
safety seminars. Depending on its objective, a safety seminaar is a very
valuable thing, because those folks who know could just pass information
along that might save my life. And even if a thousand other people sit
around bored to tears, it was all worth it.
Nico
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 5:05 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
To all in the Rocket community........
I'm sure this "safety thing" will make some of the builders happy.....and
maybe some of the flyers too.
Sadly, the thing is: The Rocket is getting a bad rap. It's such a nice plane
to fly. Good manners and habits..... Flies like a good plane should.
Sadly, we have lost a few nice planes and probably some nice people too....
To accidents that had nothing to do with the safe and good flying
capabilities of the Rocket. The Harmon Rocket is a really nice plane to fly.
It's not tricky or twitchy.... It's just a fabulous airplane that some
people just get carried away with and end up making a pretty huge divot. I
hope this safety seminar isn't aimed at trying to placate some insurance
company or program.
A Rocket is no different than a good/great Gun... In most hands, it is a
wonderful thing.
Personally, I hate attending "Safety Seminars" because it always seems they
are for all the wrong reasons....... A few people got a hold of a good
airplane and then decided to test their skill level & judgement.
Unfortunately for those of us that continue to fly the Rocket, we have to
deal with "their" decisions and the results "they" produced.
Just my two cents.......
Weav
Larry James wrote:
Count me in too. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle may be just getting the
word out ???
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon (flying to OSH 2008)
Rocket (still in basement)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Rocket-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
_____
Checked by AVG.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
I agree, re the safety of the Rocket, and am surprised to hear it's
getting a "bad rap" - that's news to me. It's very stable on the ground,
for a taildragger, and built strong. So long as it's built right, and
not too many "experiments" are conducted when it comes to the powerplant
selection and installation, I think it's a good machine. As ever, it's
the seat/control interface that seems to be the main problem.
That said, I didn't get an answer on my question about the structural
integrity of RV tails on Rockets, and with their higher VA & VNO. I'd be
really interested to hear, from people who know, if I'm the only one
with a (slight) question mark about using an RV tail at relatively high
speeds/G loads...
Feel free to email me offlist...
Andrew
________________________________
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
Well said Fred,
I nominate you to lead the "Safety Seminar" and make it what YOU think
it should be. I'll be glad to help.
All those in favor?
Jim Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver <mailto:Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:05 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
To all in the Rocket community........
I'm sure this "safety thing" will make some of the builders
happy.....and maybe some of the flyers too.
Sadly, the thing is: The Rocket is getting a bad rap. It's such
a nice plane to fly. Good manners and habits..... Flies like a good
plane should.
Sadly, we have lost a few nice planes and probably some nice
people too.... To accidents that had nothing to do with the safe and
good flying capabilities of the Rocket. The Harmon Rocket is a really
nice plane to fly. It's not tricky or twitchy.... It's just a fabulous
airplane that some people just get carried away with and end up making a
pretty huge divot. I hope this safety seminar isn't aimed at trying to
placate some insurance company or program.
A Rocket is no different than a good/great Gun... In most
hands, it is a wonderful thing.
Personally, I hate attending "Safety Seminars" because it always
seems they are for all the wrong reasons....... A few people got a hold
of a good airplane and then decided to test their skill level &
judgement. Unfortunately for those of us that continue to fly the
Rocket, we have to deal with "their" decisions and the results "they"
produced.
Just my two cents.......
Weav
Larry James wrote:
Count me in too. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle may be
just getting the word out ???
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon (flying to OSH 2008)
Rocket (still in basement)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
i
cs.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
o
ntribution
________________________________
Checked by AVG.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
h
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH |
For what its worth, my rocket's tail is a RV-4. All the tailing edges
of the elevator and rudder have been beefed up (doubled) with parts
supplied from John Harmon. The rest of the tail is stock.
I do 95% of my flying at 140 KIAS, at altitude (10500 or 11500), that
works out to 170 knots true. There is 350 hours on the tach and so far,
NO CRACKS or damage of any kind.
I have had it up to 250 KIAS during the test period a couple of times
but have no reason to go that fast during normal flying. During
descents it is very easy to have the speed increase to 180 KIAS and I
can tell by the feel of the controls the difference in speed.
Slowest, ugliest Rocket
But it sure puts a smile on my face.
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II, N561FS
do not archive
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: ACTIVE NZ - Andrew
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
I agree, re the safety of the Rocket, and am surprised to hear it's
getting a "bad rap" - that's news to me. It's very stable on the ground,
for a taildragger, and built strong. So long as it's built right, and
not too many "experiments" are conducted when it comes to the powerplant
selection and installation, I think it's a good machine. As ever, it's
the seat/control interface that seems to be the main problem.
That said, I didn't get an answer on my question about the structural
integrity of RV tails on Rockets, and with their higher VA & VNO. I'd be
really interested to hear, from people who know, if I'm the only one
with a (slight) question mark about using an RV tail at relatively high
speeds/G loads...
Feel free to email me offlist...
Andrew
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:01 PM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
Well said Fred,
I nominate you to lead the "Safety Seminar" and make it what YOU think
it should be. I'll be glad to help.
All those in favor?
Jim Stone
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Weaver
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:05 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket Safety Seminar at OSH
To all in the Rocket community........
I'm sure this "safety thing" will make some of the builders
happy.....and maybe some of the flyers too.
Sadly, the thing is: The Rocket is getting a bad rap. It's such a
nice plane to fly. Good manners and habits..... Flies like a good plane
should.
Sadly, we have lost a few nice planes and probably some nice people
too.... To accidents that had nothing to do with the safe and good
flying capabilities of the Rocket. The Harmon Rocket is a really nice
plane to fly. It's not tricky or twitchy.... It's just a fabulous
airplane that some people just get carried away with and end up making a
pretty huge divot. I hope this safety seminar isn't aimed at trying to
placate some insurance company or program.
A Rocket is no different than a good/great Gun... In most hands, it
is a wonderful thing.
Personally, I hate attending "Safety Seminars" because it always
seems they are for all the wrong reasons....... A few people got a hold
of a good airplane and then decided to test their skill level &
judgement. Unfortunately for those of us that continue to fly the
Rocket, we have to deal with "their" decisions and the results "they"
produced.
Just my two cents.......
Weav
Larry James wrote:
Count me in too. I'm thinking the biggest hurdle may be just
getting the word out ???
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
Super Decathlon (flying to OSH 2008)
Rocket (still in basement)
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Checked by AVG.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|