Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: responses on faster Rockets (Rob Ray)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: conditonal inspection checklist (Michael W Stewart)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: responses on faster Rockets |
Andrew,
- I think you have decent numbers right in the heart of "Standard Rocket
Performance". For a Hershey Bar wing airplane capable of operating out of S
TOL airports that cruises at 3 nautical miles a minute plus, that's impress
ive.
-- If you want faster, you're going to have to retract your wheels (Lan
cair, Glasair), go to a composite airframe (yuk) and more moving parts. Or,
turbo charge and go really high...
For me, the Rocket is THE BEST of both worlds.
Smokey
HR2
--- On Sun, 9/14/08, ACTIVE NZ - Andrew <andrew@nzactive.com> wrote:
From: ACTIVE NZ - Andrew <andrew@nzactive.com>
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: responses on faster Rockets
<andrew@nzactive.com>
Many thanks to everyone (particularly Lee, for his exceptionally
comprehensive post) for thoughts and ideas. A few things to consider.
Dave Anders certainly did an extraordinary job on his RV4, and I'll see
what I can pillage :) Interesting, the concept of Lycon maybe being a
tad optimistic on the dyno front - I guess I thought a C4B5 that had
higher compression pistons that would run at 2700 would automatically
put out 280 hp-ish, since a standard (Aztec) C4B5 w normal pistons does
250 hp at 2575. I'll think about all this stuff, and will probably reply
individually.
w gratitude
Andrew
PS anyone happen to know reasonable performance figures for a CLEANED
UP, light HR2? Sounds like my 198-199 TAS up high could actually be
plenty good? It seems "the wing is the thing"...but it's both too
late
to change the wing, and I really need that low-ish stall speed for NZ
flying. The extra knot is just the ego talking....I'd really like to see
210 - 215, (KTAS) but am not sure if that's reasonable or possible?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Martin
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: HR 2 - any ideas on where to start looking to
make my HR2 faster
Andrew
Both of my HRIIs with stock engines were 200 knot airplanes.
This is what John Harmon advertises and my numbers match his. I have
spent a lot of work on the cowling over the years, on a total of seven
rockets, and I can tell you that the stock cowling is pretty efficient.
The main thing that can be done to improve cooling is the proper shape
and size of the inlets. This has been mentioned by previous posters and
it is quite important. Obviously no leaks from the upper to lower plenum
is a given. I have found that the outlet is an area that can use some
work. Often I see outlets that have been cut off and this allows more
air for cooling. More cooling air is directly related to increased
drag. Particularly if you cut the cowling off to a point where the air
flows directly down the firewall and enters the free air stream at an
acute angle. My cowl lip extends aft of the firewall at least three
inches. Note that my comments regarding the cowling mainly relate to
cooling. I have been able to make a lot of adjustments to aid in
cooling but I have yet to see an increase in total speed from cowling
modifications. You can make is slower, but increasing speed, has been
elusive.
Weight kills speed and performance.
Upper and lower gear leg farings also can have an impact on
speed.
Here you need a tight fit and a generous fillet aft of the faring.
The choice of propellers can make about as much difference as
anything you can do. The MT prop, although smooth is going to cost you
speed. The new two blade blended airfoil Hartzell is quite a bit faster
and much smoother than the old paddle blade Hartzell.
There is a dip in the fuselage at the lower firewall. If you
look at a F1 rocket it does not have as much of a dip at that location.
I estimate that dip costs an average of three knots.
The main limitation to increasing speed on a HRII, or the
standard wing F1, is the wing. Although in many ways it is the perfect
wing for this airplane it does limit top speed. Keep in mind that there
are only a handful of planes of any kind that are true 200 knot
airplanes.
Currently I am flying a F1 with the EVO wing. It is my fastest
rocket to date and I have been making a series of minor improvements
over the last three flying seasons. My original MT prop was limiting my
speed and the new Hartzell has been a real improvement. In the
AirVenture cup race this year my average speed over 405 nautical miles
was 232 knots. I believe this to be the fastest recorded rocket speed
in an official race.
Yes I did have some nice tail winds but this plane is showing some good
numbers now. My data leads me to believe that my 8000 foot TAS is
approaching 215 knots.
This winter it goes back in the shop for some more clean up and
a new primer paint scheme, the original is getting a bit scruffy. If
you are interested in speed, do not paint your airplane as it will
definitely limit your will to make modifications.
Tom Martin
EVO I 280 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: September 13, 2008 4:31 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: HR 2 - any ideas on where to start looking to make
my
HR2 faster
Hi guys. I'm about to get serious about getting a little more speed out
of my Rocket. I think it's, maybe, 10 knots (or more) slower than many
of the HRs/F1s I read about. TAS in level flight seems to be a hair
under 200 knots, WOT, at any altitude under 8000 feet. I'm wondering if
anyone has any recommendations as to resources, ie, where can I start
looking for information about how to tweak a little more speed out of an
aircraft? Any books, websites, companies or other resources out there on
this subject?
I'm presuming it's mainly about drag, cos I have a good condition 280
hp
engine, and a ROC that's as good as any I've read about. I note that
the
elevator is down quite a bit in cruise, and wonder if could be robbing a
few knots? The aircraft also flies with a constant very slight right
hand aileron down to maintain wings level, and also has a couple of
external antennae. Anyone care to comment on whether any of this stuff
makes much of a difference? As I understand basic aerodynamic theory,
parasitic drag is squared, in terms of its impact on airspeed, so I'm
wondering if even the really small things matter when you're talking
about c 200 knots?
Also,the cockpit isn't well sealed. I have a flip-over canopy, and when
it's closed, there's still a 5 mm gap. Is this important?
Anything else that should be looked at? At this stage, a turbine is out
of the question :)
Last question, I guess, is the most important. Am I being unrealistic in
hoping to see TAS of 210 knots????
I'd really appreciate any comments you guys might have on this matter. I
know there's a wealth of experience out there...
Andrew (NZ)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rocket-List
Digest Server
Sent: Sat 9/13/2008 7:15 PM
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 09/12/08
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Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 09/12/08: 5
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:22 AM - Re: tails and trailing edges (Im7shannon@aol.com)
2. 09:29 AM - Re: tails and trailing edges (Im7shannon@aol.com)
3. 09:42 AM - Re: tails and trailing edges (nico css)
4. 09:50 AM - Re: tails and trailing edges (Fred Weaver)
5. 09:53 AM - Re: tails and trailing edges (nico css)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 09:22:11 AM PST US
From: Im7shannon@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
In a message dated 9/11/2008 11:37:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
Perhaps selling it to other RV owners is not that good an idea. Cheap
doesn't justify putting someone else in danger, or having it paid,
shipped and then realizing your were out to recover some of your
mistakes.
That's not nice, Kevin
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion
blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 09:29:14 AM PST US
From: Im7shannon@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
I am not trying to sell it. In fact I have had several emails from guys
wanting it and that was the reason for my previous post explaining that
it is
defective. So for alert readers like yourself, I will say it one more
time.
The FI tail I have is not in good condition, I didnt want it on my
airplane
and you dont want it on yours either but it might be good for spare
parts for
somebody who banged up his elevator.
Kevin Shannon
do not archive
Perhaps selling it to other RV owners is not that good an idea. Cheap
doesn't justify putting someone else in danger, or having it paid,
shipped and then realizing your were out to recover some of your
mistakes.
That's not nice, Kevin
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion
blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 09:42:03 AM PST US
From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
I responded purely to what you said in your email, that you wanted to
sell it "cheep" (sic). You didn't say that you want to part with
it as
spare parts. If I am wrong, I would gladly apologize. If semantics were
in the way, I would still apologize - we are not wordsmiths and I would
gladly accept the clarification.
No swords were drawn
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Im7shannon@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
I am not trying to sell it. In fact I have had several emails from guys
wanting it and that was the reason for my previous post explaining that
it is defective. So for alert readers like yourself, I will say it one
more time.
The FI tail I have is not in good condition, I didnt want it on my
airplane and you dont want it on yours either but it might be good for
spare parts for somebody who banged up his elevator.
Kevin Shannon
do not archive
Perhaps selling it to other RV owners is not that good an idea. Cheap
doesn't justify putting someone else in danger, or having it paid,
shipped and then realizing your were out to recover some of your
mistakes.
That's not nice, Kevin
_____
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the
latest fall trends and hair
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> styles at
StyleList.com.
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:50:35 AM PST US
From: Fred Weaver <Mytyweav@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
Get a grip Nico.......
nico css wrote:
> I responded purely to what you said in your email, that you wanted to
> sell it "cheep" (sic). You didn't say that you want to part
with it as
> spare parts. If I am wrong, I would gladly apologize. If semantics
> were in the way, I would still apologize - we are not wordsmiths and I
> would gladly accept the clarification.
> No swords were drawn
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Im7shannon@aol.com
> *Sent:* Friday, September 12, 2008 9:28 AM
> *To:* rocket-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
>
> I am not trying to sell it. In fact I have had several emails from
> guys wanting it and that was the reason for my previous post
> explaining that it is defective. So for alert readers like yourself, I
> will say it one more time.
> The FI tail I have is not in good condition, I didnt want it on my
> airplane and you dont want it on yours either but it might be good for
> spare parts for somebody who banged up his elevator.
> Kevin Shannon
> do not archive
>
> Perhaps selling it to other RV owners is not that good an idea.
> Cheap doesn't justify putting someone else in danger, or having it
> paid, shipped and then realizing your were out to recover some of
> your mistakes.
> That's not nice, Kevin
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus
> the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com
> <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014>.
> *
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronh
ref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
> c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 09:53:52 AM PST US
From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: RE: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
I'm OK.
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Weaver
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
Get a grip Nico.......
nico css wrote:
I responded purely to what you said in your email, that you wanted to
sell it "cheep" (sic). You didn't say that you want to part with
it as
spare parts. If I am wrong, I would gladly apologize. If semantics were
in the way, I would still apologize - we are not wordsmiths and I would
gladly accept the clarification.
No swords were drawn
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Im7shannon@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: tails and trailing edges
I am not trying to sell it. In fact I have had several emails from guys
wanting it and that was the reason for my previous post explaining that
it is defective. So for alert readers like yourself, I will say it one
more time.
The FI tail I have is not in good condition, I didnt want it on my
airplane and you dont want it on yours either but it might be good for
spare parts for somebody who banged up his elevator.
Kevin Shannon
do not archive
Perhaps selling it to other RV owners is not that good an idea. Cheap
doesn't justify putting someone else in danger, or having it paid,
shipped and then realizing your were out to recover some of your
mistakes.
That's not nice, Kevin
_____
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the
latest fall trends
<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> and hair
styles at StyleList.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List>
>http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com"
<http://forums.matronics.com> >http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matroni
cs.c
om/Navigator?Rocket-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntri
bution
_____
Checked by AVG.
Checked by AVG.
2:18 PM
Checked by AVG.
2:18 PM
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: conditonal inspection checklist |
Here is a pretty good one Jim.
http://mstewart.net/Downloads/Annual%20Condition%20Checklist%20Template
.doc
>From here.
http://mstewart.net/Downloads/downloads.htm
Mike:
"Jim Stone"
<jrstone@insightb
b.com>
To
Sent by: <rocket-list@matronics.com>
owner-rocket-list
cc
-server@matronics
.com Subj
ect
Rocket-List: conditonal inspecti
on
checklist
09/15/2008 08:40
PM
Please respond to
rocket-list@matro
nics.com
Hey Guys,
Well I survived my first year in the Rocket, 140 hours or so and lots o
f
fun. To keep it safe and legal for the next year, I'll need to do a
conditional inspection. Anyone have a checklist they like and is set u
p
for the Rocket?
Just send it to me direct.
Thank,
Jim Stone
HRII
Louisville KY
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