---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/05/09: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:08 AM - Reminder (Matt Dralle) 1. 06:28 AM - Rocket insurance (Frazier, Vincent A) 2. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Lee Logan) 3. 06:38 AM - Re: Rocket insurance (CalBru@aol.com) 4. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Ernest Hale) 5. 07:35 AM - Re: Road Landing (Speedy11@aol.com) 6. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Michael W Stewart) 7. 07:45 AM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09 (larry@ncproto.com) 8. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Ernest Hale) 9. 01:53 PM - Re: Rocket insurance (Rob Ray) 10. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Rob Ray) 11. 02:09 PM - High Temps! (Rob Ray) 12. 02:54 PM - Re: High Temps! (Ernest Hale) 13. 03:54 PM - Re: High Temps! (Kevin Shannon) 14. 05:24 PM - Re: High Temps! (Rob Ray) 15. 06:55 PM - Re: High Temps! (Ernest Hale) 16. 07:03 PM - Re: High Temps! (Sprayers@aol.com) 17. 07:03 PM - Re: High Temps! (Ernest Hale) 18. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Lee Logan) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:08 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Rocket-List: Reminder Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:09 AM PST US From: "Frazier, Vincent A" Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket insurance SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP I just renewed my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper. $560 for the year. Contact http://www.auaonline.com/ and tell them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online. LOL Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Lee Logan Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! Have a great weekend! Lee... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:46 AM PST US From: CalBru@aol.com Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket insurance Where do we find AUA? Cal In a message dated 11/5/2009 7:29:04 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, VFrazier@usi.edu writes: --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP I just renewed my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper. $560 for the year. Contact http://www.auaonline.com/ and tell them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online. LOL Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyaccessories.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Ernest Hale I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method o f success in getting yours in range? Ernest N540HB On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" wrote: > Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around th is > area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I-9 5 (or > Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy.- Your ch ances > of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of cleari ng 95 > unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is better in that respect an d has > few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have a n > Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! > > My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land > beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I figure I've > got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing.- I'll h ave > to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power > lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I > recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think).- I > would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situa tion, > but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. > > My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down f or > 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 ran ge > and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will > be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of > my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've made > arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! > > Have a great weekend! > > Lee... > > > om> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:13 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Lee- Smokey nailed it. Next time you're driving a 2 lane, watch for lines crossing the road and you'll notice they cross only where telephone poles are - the poles support the lines. Do the same when you're driving an interstate. Few lines cross them and they are only the large high tension ones - which are easier to ID from a distance. Actually, an emergency landing on a major highway should be at a higher than normal approach angle. The engine is likely dead and you will need to have a little additional speed for the flare and landing. Also, most highway traffic is moving 70-80 MPH. If that is your normal approach speed, assuming no wind. you'll be descending directly on top of the road vehicles. That's not what you want to do. The better option is to approach at 100 to 110 MPH (depending on wind) into a gap in the traffic (assuming you can't find a clear section of highway). As you pass over the 80 MPH traffic and begin your flare, the drivers will see you and slow down - thus giving you room to slow to a stop. So, with a dead engine and a high approach speed, the descent angle is going to be much greater than normal. And it is not at optimum glide - but you don't care since you have a landing surface in front of you. Also, you won't normally care whether or not you're landing into the wind. The reason we takeoff and land into the wind is because our runway lengths are limited. A highway landing offers a much longer surface, so no problem landing with the wind. If fact, it could help you if you're in a Cub and maintaining a 100 MPH to get in front of traffic would be challenging. Regards, Stan Sutterfield Do not archive When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, power lines, telephone lines)? They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast). Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines would have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "gauntlet"of them of one sort or another. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Michael W Stewart Ernest. What is Huge? What is High? What have you done to this point to solve the problem? With this information we can begin to help you. There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where yo u are and what you have done. Mike do not archive From: Ernest Hale To: Date: 11/05/2009 09:59 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your meth od of success in getting yours in range? Ernest N540HB On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" wrote: Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally !) is fine but it is very busy.- Your chances of getting down unsc athed are good, I suspect, but your chances of clearing 95 unscathed ar e much less.-- The frontage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing.- I'll have to make a couple of practice passes n ext time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spo t from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but norm ally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think).- I would rea lly like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps i n the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very please d with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the a ir, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! Have a great weekend! Lee... onth -- me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) ="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> <:http://www.buildersbooks.com.> ef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com.">http://www.homebuilthelp.com .> ://www.matronics.com/contribution ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. Email Forum - ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - matronics.com ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:51 AM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09 From: larry@ncproto.com I have many off-airport landings albeit under different circumstances - in flying sailplanes cross-country. I have always landed in fields with no mishap; although I agree with Smokey's assessment that most RV's tend to end up upside down. For me the difference lies in the wingspan. Our sailplanes are 49 feet and as such anything on the side of the road is cause for a groundloop. A good friend broke his sailplane twice in this scenario. That said I now consider roads as options while flying my Decathlon and will do so when my Rocket is in the air. Just more info. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Rocket-List Digest Server Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 11/04/09 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-11-04&Archive=Rocket Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-11-04&Archive=Rocket =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/04/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:52 PM - Re: Road Landing (Speedy11@aol.com) 2. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Lee Logan) 3. 08:56 PM - Re: Re: Road Landing (Rob Ray) 4. 10:08 PM - Rocket Insurance (Tom Gummo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:16 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Smokey, I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. Stan Sutterfield My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Lee Logan When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, power lines, telephone lines)? They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast). Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines would have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "gauntlet"of them of one sort or another. Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is... Lee... On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote: > Smokey, > I agree 100%. In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I > always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. > There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. > Stan Sutterfield > > > My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie > ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back > , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high > on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:14 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Lee, Growing up around an AG strip the spray pilots always looked for wires, eve rywhere. The trick on roads is to look for the power poles alongside, there you will find the where the wires cross. On larger roads and interstates, only large high tension lines cross as they are required 50 feet vertical f or large vehicle clearance and are marked. Interstates are actually designa ted as emergency runways and stressed for load bearing in national crisis s cenarios, the minimum distance between overpasses is 1 mile, for a reason. - BTW, how's your new Rocket running? - Smokey HR2 - --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Lee Logan wrote: From: Lee Logan Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing When landing on roads, what's the trick to avoiding lines (drop lines, powe r lines, telephone lines)?- They are difficult to see, especially in the shadows of the trees (a commonplace issue here in the Southeast).- Coming in at a low angle (3-4 degrees would be typical, I would think), lines wou ld have to be pretty far apart for you not to have to run fairly serious "g auntlet"of them of one sort or another. Not arguing, just wondering what the "trick" is... Lee... On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, wrote: Smokey, I agree 100%.- In fact I have a briefing I give on emergency landings and I always recommend a road - for many reasons, one of which you mentioned. - There are very safe ways to accomplish a road landing. Stan Sutterfield - My first choice for forced landings is a paved road rather than a fie ld. Reason? Every RV forced landing I have helped clean up was on it's back , trapping the pilot. Growing up around an AG strip, roads were always high on our list as "alternate airfields" and used often. - _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List tp://forums.matronics.com =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:19 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket Insurance Just a heads up. I just got my insurance from Falcon for my Harmon Rocket II for next year. It is underwritten by Global-AAU: the EAA program underwriter. It states that Global will not underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo N-561FS 360 great hours. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Ernest Hale Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=B9 to maintain a CHT o f 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced the baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to hel p pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air through. I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. Any help would be appreciated. Ernest On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote: > Ernest. > What is Huge? > What is High? > What have you done to this point to solve the problem? > With this information we can begin to help you. > There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you are > and what you have done. > Mike > do not archive > > Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high > cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your > > > From: > Ernest Hale > > To: > > > Date: > 11/05/2009 09:59 AM > > Subject: > Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing > > Sent by: > owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com > > > > > I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of > success in getting yours in range? > > Ernest > N540HB > > > On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote: >>> Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this >>> area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I -95 >>> (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy.- Y our >>> chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of >>> clearing 95 unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is better in t hat >>> respect and has few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky >>> as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! >>> >>> My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and t o >>> land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I >>> figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear >>> landing.- I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm u p to >>> see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altit ude >>> (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committe d by >>> then, I would think).- I would really like to be able to pick my spot e arly >>> in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical t hat >>> is. >>> >>> My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down for >>> 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 r ange >>> and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming i t >>> will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish t he >>> rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've >>> made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well ! >>> >>> Have a great weekend! >>> >>> Lee... >>> >>> >>> onth -- >>> me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) >>> ="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> >>> > >>> ef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >>> ://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> Email Forum - >>> ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List >>> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>> matronics.com >>> > > > ==================================== > com/">www.aeroelectric.com > ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > > p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ==================================== > ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List > > ==================================== > u>http://forums.matronics.com > ==================================== > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:33 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket insurance I too use AUA, in my 20th year. absolute best in the business. Call Rob Kam sch at 800-727-3823. Smokey HR2 http://www.auaonline.com/ --- On Thu, 11/5/09, CalBru@aol.com wrote: From: CalBru@aol.com Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Rocket insurance =0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AWhere do we find AUA?=0A-=0ACal=0A-=0A=0AIn a messa ge dated 11/5/2009 7:29:04 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, =0AVFrazier@usi.edu writes:=0A--> =0A Rocket-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" =0A SNIP I just got my insurance from Falcon for =0A my Harmon Rocket II for n ext year.- It is underwritten by Global-AAU: =0A the EAA program underwriter .- It states that Global will not =0A underwrite new F-1 or Harmon Rockets as new business. For =0A Liability ONLY, it increased $125 from last year. SNIP I just renewed =0A my coverage through AUA and the liability only rate was $50 cheaper.- =0A $560 for the year. Contact http://www.auaonline.com/- and tell =0A them that they owe me a t-shirt for plugging them online.- =0A LOL Vince Frazier Flyboy Accessories 3963 Caborn =0A Road Mount Vernon, IN =0A 47620 812-464-1839 1-888-8FLYBOY 1-888-835-9269 www.flyboyac===================== ==nbsp; =0A - - - -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE =0A =0A to f ind =0A Gifts =0Atric =0Are =0Ab =0Ak you for =0Ap; - =0A - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, =0A List =0A======== ================ =0A the =0Aties =0ADay =0A ======================= - - - - - -- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =0A======== ================ ===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:27 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Awesome! Come see me here at the Swamp sometime! SmokeyHR2@FD33 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Lee Logan wrote: From: Lee Logan Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Smokey:- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around th is area, I see power lines everywhere.- Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. - Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your ch ances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less.-- The frontage road is be tter in that respect and has few powerlines itself.- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I nee d one! =0A My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to la nd beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.- That way, I fig ure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing. - I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see h ow easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then , I would think).- I would really like to be able to pick my spot early i n an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that i s. =0A My Rocket is running much better.- My last flight before I took it down f or 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 ra nge and the oil temp at 190-195.- I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish t he rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.- I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is we ll! =0A Have a great weekend! Lee... ===============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:21 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Rocket-List: High Temps! Ernest, =C2-=C2-An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exc eed inlet area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended up finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started b y cutting quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of the U even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 30 degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders.=C2-After t he modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180 oil, 310 av erage on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared down low my cy llinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope that helps. =C2- SmokeyHR2 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing =0A=0A=0A=0A =0AHuge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000 =99 to maintain a CHT of 415 or so. =C2-On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. =C2-I have replaced the baffling, reconstructed the bottom of th e top cowling to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to help pull air through the engine. =C2-We a re about to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowlin g to hopefully force more air through. =C2-I was having a bad time with o il temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. =0A =0AAny help would be appreciated. =0A =0AErnest =0A =0A =0AOn 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote : =0A =0AErnest. =0AWhat is Huge? =0AWhat is High? =0AWhat have you done to this point to solve the problem? =0AWith this information we can begin to help you. =0AThere are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you are and what you have done. =0AMike =0Ado not archive =0A =0AErnest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your =0A =0A =0AFrom: =0AErnest Hale =0A =0ATo: =0A =0A =0ADate: =0A11/05/2009 09:59 AM =0A =0ASubject: =0ARe: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing =0A =0ASent by: =0Aowner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0AI have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your metho d of success in getting yours in range? =0A =0AErnest =0AN540HB =0A =0A =0AOn 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote: =0ASmokey:=C2- That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive aro und this area, I see power lines everywhere.=C2- Our major north-south hi ghway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is ver y busy.=C2- Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, b ut your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less.=C2-=C2- The fro ntage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself.=C2- I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage ro ad handy when I need one! =0A =0AMy plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible.=C2- That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear lan ding.=C2- I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitu de (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think).=C2- I would really like to be able to pick my s pot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely pract ical that is. =0A =0AMy Rocket is running much better.=C2- My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320- 350 range and the oil temp at 190-195.=C2- I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time.=C2- I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! =0A =0AHave a great weekend! =0A =0ALee... =0A =0A =0Aonth -- =0Ame AWESOME FREE Gifts!) =0A="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> =0A > =0Aef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com> =0A://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A; =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0AEmail Forum - =0Aist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =0A; =C2-- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =0Amatronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0A======================== ============ =0Acom/">www.aeroelectric.com =0Aildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com =0Ap.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com =0Aion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A======================== ============ =0A?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =0A======================== ============ =0Au>http://forums.matronics.com =0A======================== ============ =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! From: Ernest Hale Thanks Smokey, I will look at that, I also have the stock Harmon Cowl. My compression is the same as yours as well, hopefully I can get it running like yours. Ernest On 11/5/09 4:34 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: > Ernest, > An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed inle t > area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended u p > finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started by cuttin g > quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of the U > even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 30 > degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a C4B5 > injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. > After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180 o il, > 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared down l ow my > cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope that hel ps. > > Smokey > HR2 > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: >> >> From: Ernest Hale >> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing >> To: rocket-list@matronics.com >> Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM >> >> Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=B9 to maintain a C HT of >> 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced the >> baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better flow , >> placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to help >> pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions onto the air >> inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air through. I >> was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding an other >> oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. >> >> Any help would be appreciated. >> >> Ernest >> >> >> On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote : >> >>> Ernest. >>> What is Huge? >>> What is High? >>> What have you done to this point to solve the problem? >>> With this information we can begin to help you. >>> There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where yo u are >>> and what you have done. >>> Mike >>> do not archive >>> >>> Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high >>> cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your >>> >>> >>> From: >>> Ernest Hale >>> >>> To: >>> >>> >>> Date: >>> 11/05/2009 09:59 AM >>> >>> Subject: >>> Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing >>> >>> Sent by: >>> owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your meth od of >>> success in getting yours in range? >>> >>> Ernest >>> N540HB >>> >>> >>> On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" >> > wrote: >>>>> Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive aroun d >>>>> this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highw ay is >>>>> I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very b usy. >>>>> Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your >>>>> chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road i s >>>>> better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't f igure >>>>> I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I >>>>> need one! >>>>> >>>>> My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to >>>>> land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I >>>>> figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear >>>>> landing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up >>>>> to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising >>>>> altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pret ty >>>>> committed by then, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick >>>>> my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolu tely >>>>> practical that is. >>>>> >>>>> My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it do wn >>>>> for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320 -350 >>>>> range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and >>>>> assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will qu ickly >>>>> finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime >>>>> time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so >>>>> all is well! >>>>> >>>>> Have a great weekend! >>>>> >>>>> Lee... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> onth -- >>>>> me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) >>>>> ="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> >>>>> > >>>>> ef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >>>>> ://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>>> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>> Email Forum - >>>>> ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List >>>>> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>> matronics.com >>>>> >>> >>> >>> =========== >>> com/">www.aeroelectric.com >>> ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >>> >>> p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> >>> ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> =========== >>> ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List >>> >>> ==================================== >>> u>http://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> ==================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:58 PM PST US From: "Kevin Shannon" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! I have trimmed my lower cowl off a couple times too, and added louvers under the exhaust on both sides. On hot days 95 and above running lean of peak brings the cht's down pretty quick. I also added a second oil cooler which is controllable from the cockpit. Kevin Shannon HR2 ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Ray To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 2:34 PM Subject: Rocket-List: High Temps! Ernest, An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed inlet area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended up finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started by cutting quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of the U even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 30 degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180 oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared down low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope that helps. Smokey HR2 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing To: rocket-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=99 to maintain a CHT of 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced the baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to help pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air through. I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. Any help would be appreciated. Ernest On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote: Ernest. What is Huge? What is High? What have you done to this point to solve the problem? With this information we can begin to help you. There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you are and what you have done. Mike do not archive Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your From: Ernest Hale To: Date: 11/05/2009 09:59 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting yours in range? Ernest N540HB On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote: Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear landing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! Have a great weekend! Lee... onth -- me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) ="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> > ef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com> ://www.matronics.com/contribution ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. Email Forum - ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - matronics.com =========== com/">www.aeroelectric.com ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =========== u>http://forums.matronics.com =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/05/09 00:37:00 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:46 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! Ernest, Let me know how it works out, I will take a photo of my lower cowl in case you want to compare...:) Smokey --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! =0A=0A=0A=0A =0AThanks Smokey, I will look at that, I also have the stock H armon Cowl. =C2-My compression is the same as yours as well, hopefully I can get it running like yours. =0A =0AErnest =0A =0A =0AOn 11/5/09 4:34 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: =0A =0AErnest, =0A=C2-=C2-An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed inlet area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended up finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I starte d by cutting quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bot tom of the U even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cool er to a 30 degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon co wl with a C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. =0A=C2-After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180 oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Square d down low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. H ope that helps. =0A =0ASmokey =0AHR2 =0A =0A--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: =0A =0AFrom: Ernest Hale =0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing =0ATo: rocket-list@matronics.com =0ADate: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM =0A =0A=C2-Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=99 to maintain a CHT of 415 or so. =C2-On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. =C2-I have replaced the baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cow ling to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to help pull air through the engine. =C2-We are about to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowling to hope fully force more air through. =C2-I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of thos e. =0A =0AAny help would be appreciated. =0A =0AErnest =0A =0A =0AOn 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote : =0A =0AErnest. =0AWhat is Huge? =0AWhat is High? =0AWhat have you done to this point to solve the problem? =0AWith this information we can begin to help you. =0AThere are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you are and what you have done. =0AMike =0Ado not archive =0A =0AErnest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your =0A =0A =0AFrom: =0AErnest Hale =0A =0ATo: =0A =0A =0ADate: =0A11/05/2009 09:59 AM =0A =0ASubject: =0ARe: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing =0A =0ASent by: =0Aowner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0AI have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your metho d of success in getting yours in range? =0A =0AErnest =0AN540HB =0A =0A =0AOn 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote: =0ASmokey: =C2-That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive aro und this area, I see power lines everywhere. =C2-Our major north-south hi ghway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is ver y busy. =C2-Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, b ut your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. =C2-=C2-The fro ntage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. =C2-I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage ro ad handy when I need one! =0A =0AMy plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. =C2-That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear lan ding. =C2-I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitu de (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would think). =C2-I would really like to be able to pick my s pot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely pract ical that is. =0A =0AMy Rocket is running much better. =C2-My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320- 350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. =C2-I'm very pleased with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. =C2-I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! =0A =0AHave a great weekend! =0A =0ALee... =0A =0A =0Aonth -- =0Ame AWESOME FREE Gifts!) =0A="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> =0A > =0Aef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com> =0A://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A; =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =0AEmail Forum - =0Aist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =0A; =C2-- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =0Amatronics.com =0A =0A =0A =0A=========== =0Acom/">www.aeroelectric.com =0Aildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com =0Ap.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com =0Aion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=========== =0A?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List =0A======================== ============ =0Au>http://forums.matronics.com =0A======================== ============ =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:03 PM PST US From: Ernest Hale Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! That would be great thanks. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 5, 2009, at 8:22 PM, Rob Ray wrote: > Ernest, > > Let me know how it works out, I will take a photo of my lower cowl > in case you want to compare...:) > > Smokey > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: > > From: Ernest Hale > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! > To: rocket-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 2:25 PM > > Thanks Smokey, I will look at that, I also have the stock Harmon > Cowl. My compression is the same as yours as well, hopefully I can > get it running like yours. > > Ernest > > > On 11/5/09 4:34 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: > > Ernest, > An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed > inlet area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area > and ended up finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I > started by cutting quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U > with the bottom of the U even with the lower engine mount tube.I > also moved my oil cooler to a 30 degree angle and went to #8 lines. > BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a C4B5 injected with 10.0 > Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. > After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with > 180 oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 > Squared down low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow > at 6.9 GPH. Hope that helps. > > Smokey > HR2 > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: > > From: Ernest Hale > Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing > To: rocket-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM > > Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=99 to maintain > a CHT of 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have > replaced the baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling > to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet > to promote a suction to help pull air through the engine. We are ab > out to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowl > ing to hopefully force more air through. I was having a bad time wi > th oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so > now I have 2 of those. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Ernest > > > On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" > wrote: > > Ernest. > What is Huge? > What is High? > What have you done to this point to solve the problem? > With this information we can begin to help you. > There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where > you are and what you have done. > Mike > do not archive > > Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge > problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of > success in getting your > > > From: > Ernest Hale > > To: > > > Date: > 11/05/2009 09:59 AM > > Subject: > Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing > > Sent by: > owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com > > > I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your > method of success in getting yours in range? > > Ernest > N540HB > > > On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > > wrote: > Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive > around this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north- > south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is > fine but it is very busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed > are good, I suspect, but your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are > much less. The frontage road is better in that respect and has few > powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have > an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! > > My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads > and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. > That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the > possibility of a clear landing. I'll have to make a couple of > practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines > themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' > as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by then, I would > think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an > engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that > is. > > My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it > down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in > the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased > with that and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the > air, I will quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing > and call it ready for prime time. I've made arrangements for final > painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! > > Have a great weekend! > > Lee... > > > onth -- > me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) > ="http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com> > > > ef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com> > ://www.matronics.com/contribution > ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > Email Forum - > ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List > ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > matronics.com > > > =========== > com/">www.aeroelectric.com > > ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > > p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > > ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > =========== > ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List > > ======================== ============ > u>http://forums.matronics.com > > =========== > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:27 PM PST US From: Sprayers@aol.com Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! This high temp. ---have you checked your timing (mags)...i see you have10-1 pistons. barrett in tulsa times his engines with these pistons at 23deg. (your c4b5) plate on eng says 25 deg. look at the 8.7 to 1 pistons in lyc . 290 hp engines (most are 20deg).good luck _sprayers@aol.com_ (mailto:sprayers@aol.com) In a message dated 11/5/2009 7:25:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, smokyray@rocketmail.com writes: Ernest, Let me know how it works out, I will take a photo of my lower cowl in cas e you want to compare...:) Smokey --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! Thanks Smokey, I will look at that, I also have the stock Harmon Cowl. My compression is the same as yours as well, hopefully I can get it running like yours. Ernest On 11/5/09 4:34 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: Ernest, An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed inlet area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended up finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started by cuttin g quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of the U even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 30 degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 180 oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared down low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope that helps. Smokey HR2 --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: From: Ernest Hale Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=99 to mainta in a CHT of 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced th e baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better flow, placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction to help pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions onto the air inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air throug h. I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed that by adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. Any help would be appreciated. Ernest On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wrote : Ernest. What is Huge? What is High? What have you done to this point to solve the problem? With this information we can begin to help you. There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you are and what you have done. Mike do not archive Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your From: Ernest Hale To: Date: 11/05/2009 09:59 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing Sent by: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com ____________________________________ I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting yours in range? Ernest N540HB On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" > wrote: Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive around this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south highway is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is very busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but your chan ces of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just don't figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road handy when I need one! My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads and to land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That way, I figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clear land ing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I'm up to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruising altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pretty committed by th en, I would think). I would really like to be able to pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how absolutely practical that is. My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with that and assumin g it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I will quickly finish th e rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready for prime time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly thereafter, so all is well! Have a great weekend! Lee... onth -- me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) ="_http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.com_ (http://www.aeroelectric.com">http//www.aeroelectric.com) > <_http://www.buildersbooks.com_ (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) <_http://www.buildersbooks.com/_ (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) > > ef="_http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp.com_ (http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http//www.homebuilthelp.com) > ://www.matronics.com/contribution ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. Email Forum - ist">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - matronics.com =========== com/">www.aeroelectric.com <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > ion">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) <_http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) > =========== ?Rocket-List">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List) > ======================== ============ u>_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) <_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List) > =========== ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: High Temps! From: Ernest Hale Thanks for the info, it is all very valuable. How do you control the louvers, of do they stay open all the time. E On 11/5/09 6:46 PM, "Kevin Shannon" wrote: > I have trimmed my lower cowl off a couple times too, and added louvers un der > the exhaust on both sides. On hot days 95 and above running lean of peak > brings the cht's down pretty quick. I also added a second oil cooler whic h is > controllable from the cockpit. > Kevin Shannon > HR2 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Rob Ray >> >> To: rocket-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 2:34 PM >> >> Subject: Rocket-List: High Temps! >> >> >> >> Ernest, >> An aeronautical engineer once told me that exit area should exceed i nlet >> area by 1.5%. I carefully measured my inlets and my exit area and ended up >> finding my exhaust pipes ate up alot of my exit area. I started by cutt ing >> quite a bit off my lower cowl in the shape of a U with the bottom of th e U >> even with the lower engine mount tube.I also moved my oil cooler to a 3 0 >> degree angle and went to #8 lines. BTW, I have a stock Harmon cowl with a >> C4B5 injected with 10.0 Compression, Ly-Con cyllinders. >> After the modifications I cruise now at 9500' at 20"/2350 RPM with 18 0 >> oil, 310 average on all 6, 10.5 GPH, 188 Knots TAS. If I run 21 Squared down >> low my cyllinders run at 285, oil at 160 and fuel flow at 6.9 GPH. Hope that >> helps. >> >> Smokey >> HR2 >> >> --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Ernest Hale wrote: >> >>> >>> From: Ernest Hale >>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing >>> To: rocket-list@matronics.com >>> Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 8:06 AM >>> >>> Huge is I am putting 18 gph through my engine at 6,000=B9 to maintain a CHT >>> of 415 or so. On climb out I can hit 440 in minutes. I have replaced the >>> baffling, reconstructed the bottom of the top cowling to get better fl ow, >>> placed a lip on the bottom of the engine outlet to promote a suction t o >>> help pull air through the engine. We are about to build extensions on to >>> the air inlets in the front of the cowling to hopefully force more air >>> through. I was having a bad time with oil temps earlier and fixed tha t by >>> adding another oil cooler so now I have 2 of those. >>> >>> Any help would be appreciated. >>> >>> Ernest >>> >>> >>> On 11/5/09 10:41 AM, "Michael W Stewart" wr ote: >>> >>> >>>> Ernest. >>>> What is Huge? >>>> What is High? >>>> What have you done to this point to solve the problem? >>>> With this information we can begin to help you. >>>> There are a hundred things to list to do, We should start with where you >>>> are and what you have done. >>>> Mike >>>> do not archive >>>> >>>> Ernest Hale ---11/05/2009 09:59:18 AM---I have a huge problem with hi gh >>>> cylinder head temps, what was your method of success in getting your >>>> >>>> >>>> From: >>>> Ernest Hale >>>> >>>> To: >>>> >>>> >>>> Date: >>>> 11/05/2009 09:59 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing >>>> >>>> Sent by: >>>> owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have a huge problem with high cylinder head temps, what was your me thod >>>> of success in getting yours in range? >>>> >>>> Ernest >>>> N540HB >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/5/09 8:22 AM, "Lee Logan" >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Smokey: That's pretty much the way I figure it, but as I drive aro und >>>>>> this area, I see power lines everywhere. Our major north-south hig hway >>>>>> is I-95 (or Navaid 95, as it is known locally!) is fine but it is v ery >>>>>> busy. Your chances of getting down unscathed are good, I suspect, but >>>>>> your chances of clearing 95 unscathed are much less. The frontage road >>>>>> is better in that respect and has few powerlines itself. I just do n't >>>>>> figure I'll be so lucky as to have an Interstate or frontage road h andy >>>>>> when I need one! >>>>>> >>>>>> My plan has always been to look for the houses on our rural roads a nd to >>>>>> land beyond one and short of the next, if at all possible. That wa y, I >>>>>> figure I've got a good starting point for the possibility of a clea r >>>>>> landing. I'll have to make a couple of practice passes next time I 'm up >>>>>> to see how easy the power lines themselves are to spot from cruisin g >>>>>> altitude (not hard from 1,000' as I recall but normally you'd be pr etty >>>>>> committed by then, I would think). I would really like to be able to >>>>>> pick my spot early in an engine out situation, but I don't know how >>>>>> absolutely practical that is. >>>>>> >>>>>> My Rocket is running much better. My last flight before I took it down >>>>>> for 2-3 weeks of updates was very good with cylinder temps in the >>>>>> 320-350 range and the oil temp at 190-195. I'm very pleased with t hat >>>>>> and assuming it will be the same once I get it back in the air, I w ill >>>>>> quickly finish the rest of my operation/flight testing and call it ready >>>>>> for prime time. I've made arrangements for final painting shortly >>>>>> thereafter, so all is well! >>>>>> >>>>>> Have a great weekend! >>>>>> >>>>>> Lee... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> onth -- >>>>>> me AWESOME FREE Gifts!) >>>>>> ="http://www.aeroelectric.com' target=_blank >>>>>> rel=nofollow>http://www.aeroelectric.com">http://www.aeroelectric.co m >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ef="http://www.homebuilthelp.com' target=_blank >>>>>> rel=nofollow>http://www.homebuilthelp.com">http://www.homebuilthelp. com >>>>>> > >>>>>> ://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>>>> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>>>> Email Forum - >>>>>> ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List >>>>>> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >>>>>> matronics.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =========== >>>> com/">www.aeroelectric.com >>>> ildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com >>>> >>>> p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com >>>> >>>> ion">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> =========== >>>> ?Rocket-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List >>>> >>>> ==================================== >>>> u>http://forums.matronics.com >>>> >>>> ==================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> - Release Date: 11/05/09 00:37:00 >> ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: Road Landing From: Lee Logan Ernest (Sorry this is so long, but maybe it will help and will be worth your time to read it): I believe it is a settled fact that Rockets have more than enough inlet and exit area to cool just fine. If you have a good cooler, good baffling, smooth inlets, an adequate outlet, and no engine/oil/magneto/sparkplug/FI issues---it will (or can be made to) run cool, if it is properly broken in. In my case, I used the RV-10 baffling kit which was a good start but installed "stock" wasn't just right for my engine. I started with 400+ cylinder head temps and 240+ oil. So, I created a systematic plan to go though the cooling system an item at a time. Developed a "root cause" analysis and stuck with it. I learned not to take anything for granted and question everything. The cooling system on any aircraft engine is truly a "system", everything is interrelated. I got countless recommendations from the usual suspects at the airport and all the ideas were good---the invariable problem with them was that they didn't know what was wrong with MY airplane any more than I did. "Check your timing, my uncle did and it fixed his problem", "You've got fouled plugs, my cousin checked his when his engine ran hot and sure enough, 3 of them were fouled", etc. etc. I heard that constantly. If anyone had ever actually diagnosed my airplane to a real-world root cause, the solution would have been obvious. Solutions are easy, it's figuring out what's wrong that is hard---and here is the major pain in all this: Unless you find an obvious smoking gun, you may have to do like I did---just keep modifying and verifying until the temps go down. Change things one at a time; whatever doesn't improve things, change it back. I went through the vernatherm, the cooler, the connections, the oil itself, the filter, the pump, etc. I swapped vernatherms, tested vernatherms, honed the vernatherm seat, even flew it with a blanked off vernatherm (temp went up). I flipped the cooler (to eliminate air pockets), verified the oil lines were connected to the right openings in the accessory case, tested both oil temp gages, tested both oil pressure gages, flow tested the (brand new Stewart Warner) cooler and lines, drained the oil to verify the right amount was on board, swapped oil filters, used a laser temp gage to verify consistent oil temps throughout the engine to "prove" I had proper engine-wide flow (sump, hoses, front, back, sides, top and bottom of the cooler, cylinder heads, barrels, crankcase, accessory case) etc. Over time, I decided it was not the oil system. Went through engine baffles in detail and sealed everything. No leak is too small to fill with RTV. CHT's dropped 10 degrees; reprofiled upper cowl ramps, temps dropped 5 degrees. Cut down the baffle plates in front of cylinders 1 and 2 incrementally, and their temps went down 3-5 degrees each time. Ended up with no baffles in front of 1 and 2 above the inlet ramps. Incrementally removed trailing edge of aft lower cowl (the cowling inlet opening/exit opening areas in effect, "throttle" the airflow through the cowling). Hint: The air going through cowling does not heat up very much in the process of cooling the engine (8-10 degrees, I'm told), it's FLOW that makes the system work. Oil temp came down along with these changes but not as fast. Sometimes very modest changes to the baffles (sealing, trimming) and the exit/outlet size, made large differences to the temps I saw. The oil temps came down too with the plummeting CHT's but still stayed way too high for me. Decided the oil cooler wasn't getting its share of the flow. My cooler was fed by a 4" opening in the right aft baffle feeding through a smooth silicon rubber hose. Added small baffles to channel air into the oil cooler opening (temps dropped 5 degrees), added 3" under-cowl hose to route air from left cowling inlet direct to the cooler (no effect/removed it). Removed baffle elements directly in front of the cylinder *barrels* (the baffles in front of the cylinder heads were already long gone). Oil temps went up. Added "flow" baffles in front of barrells angled back toward rear (instead of the vertical ones that came with the RV-10 baffle kit). Oil temps back down slightly but still high. Decided that the 4" oil cooler opening was not big enough. Fabricated and installed a full cooler sized opening and air path. This took the oil cooler inlet area from just over 12 sq. in. to 24. I figured this was the "big fix" the oil system needed to finally fall into line with the cylinders. Didn't work; no change in oil temps but cylinder temps went back up (marginally). Fabricated and installed a plenum on the back side of the oil cooler feeding a 4" hose routed down to the lower cowl outlet. Theory was that backflow/backpressure in the lower cowling was inhibiting flow through the cooler. Plan was to go full size with an all new plenum and outlet if there was any improvement at all. There wasn't any. What the heck? So... I went through the engine: Changed timing down by 5 degrees; whole system got hotter and power seemed "off". Changed it back. Pulled all the plugs (they were fine); compression checked fine. Okay. If the engine is good and the oil system is good and the inlets and outlet are reasonably close, the cylinder head temps are (now) low, but the oil temp is still above 210 in cruise (at least it is down from the original 240+), what does that leave? This cowling and oil cooler combination is working fine on other Rockets with smaller oil cooler inlets. Decided I would reinstate my flight test program and "live" with the 210 degree oil temp. OAT's had been highish all summer (80 degrees plus, at altitude). My DAR buddy was convinced that the engine was already broken in and running as cool as it was going to run in and of itself. I wasn't so sure. Decided to try one more thing before continuing the flight test program. I cut a small NACA scoop in the lower cowl centerline about 2/3 of the way aft of the fuel injection inlet to the trailing edge of the cowl. It didn't go anywhere, just brought additional air in from the outside and exhausted it immediately out of the lower cowl a few inches in front of the lower trailing edge lip. The theory was that that little "tornado" of air would entrain the slow moving air in the lower cowl and facilitate it in moving more rapidly to the cowling exit. Flew the airplane and bingo! The oil temp dropped to 190 on both gages (I have two independent oil temp and pressure gages). BUT: OAT was down to 45 degrees that day. Did the NACA scoop really work that well, did the engine just break in, or was the OAT effect that dramatic? I only got to fly it once like this before business trips intervened. In the meantime I had to pull my engine monitor and ship it back for recalibration (unrelated to my cooling problems). Down for three weeks. Finally flew it today for the second time since the NACA scoop was installed. OAT up to 58, oil temp down to 185! What finally did the trick? I don't know yet but I will keep you informed. The airport closes tomorrow for 2-3 weeks for resurfacing. I moved my Rocket to a nearby field though so I can continue my test flights. First up: Seal the NACA scoop and see what happens. I will do that Saturday. I'm hoping for a couple of hotter days, so I can gage a broader range of OAT effects. Could be that my engine in fact just broke in and that was the "remainder" of the problem all along; we'll know in a few days. Honest, sorry for the long post but I wanted to get this all straight in my own mind too. Hope those who are facing the same problems will benefit too. Regards, Lee... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rocket-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Rocket-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rocket-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rocket-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.