Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:23 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:42 AM - Re: High Temps! (Tom Martin)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: High Temps! (Lee Logan)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: High Temps! (Ernest Hale)
4. 05:54 PM - Re: Road Landing (Speedy11@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
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Message 1
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It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine
cooling,
especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on
for
quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not only been to
properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. If you
open
the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. However
if
not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed.
Yes
I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any
degradation of speed but that has not been my experience.
Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the
firewall.
If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your
airplane.
The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating
turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is
rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better
to
drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work
but
what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same
direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the
lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and
reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air.
All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed
properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there
should
be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the
upper
plenum.
My work has been proven in the races that I have participated
in
during the last few years HYPERLINK
"http://sportairrace.org/index.html"http://sportairrace.org/index.html
note the recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5
knots
placing me in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The
HRIIs,
over the last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as
compared to the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very
fast
RV8. He has been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit
air
outlets on any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not
be
interested in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save
you
money on each and every flight you take.
Checked by AVG.
15/05/2009
6:16 AM
Checked by AVG.
15/05/2009
6:16 AM
Message 2
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Tom: I hear you loud and clear. My plan, now that my temps are quite low
all around, is to incrementally close my exit back up until the temps react
upward and then to "tune" the outlet smaller and smaller until I reach
(hopefully) faster speeds and acceptable temps. Right now, I have some
"excess" to play with---and I'm glad to have it!
Regards,
Lee...
2009/11/7 Tom Martin <fairlea@amtelecom.net>
> It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! Engine
> cooling, especially with rockets, has been something that I have been
> working on for quite a few years on quite a few planes. My focus has not
> only been to properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing dra
g.
> If you open the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling
.
> However if not done properly this will also increase drag and hence redu
ce
> speed. Yes I know that there will be those that say that they have not
> noticed any degradation of speed but that has not been my experience.
>
> Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewall
.
> If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplane.
> The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating
> turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is
> rushing past the cowling. If you need more opening it would be better to
> drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. Yes this is more work b
ut
> what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same
> direction as the air going past the airplane. Internal ductwork in the
> lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and
> reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air.
>
> All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed
> properly. By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there shou
ld
> be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the uppe
r
> plenum.
>
> My work has been proven in the races that I have participated in
> during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html note the
> recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placing
me
> in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. The HRIIs, over the
> last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared to
> the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=92s very fast RV8. He h
as
> been kicking some rocket butt. You will not see huge exit air outlets on
> any of the fast airplanes in these races. While you may not be intereste
d
> in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money on
> each and every flight you take.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
Message 3
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Well, the saga of N540HB continues. Yesterday we built some aluminum box
extenders that fit into the air inlets and protruded about an inch out in
front of the cowling. Additionally I had the lip on the outlet at the
bottom of the cowling cut off. Well, took off and the CHT=B9s were climbing
faster than the rocket. Hit 470 before I got to 1,000 feet. Got back into
the pattern and landed worried about causing major problems since the CHT=B9s
were having a hard time coming down. Took off again, this time with not
much power, and flew around the airport at 17=B2 of MP. All of the CHT=B9s wer
e
above 400 with most being around 420. Again, full mixture, 17=B2 and 2,000
feet. Landed, decided that our miracle patch wasn=B9t what it was expected t
o
be and took the extenders off. Feeling a bit discouraged I decide to take
it up again without our device in place and see what was going on. Eureka,
the CHT=B9s were cooler than I have seen them in a long time. I flew around
a
bit, it seemed as though the CHT and EGT were acting almost normal. I am
not sure if I can attach pics or not but am going to try. I think that wha
t
made the difference was taking the lip off of the exit area. After reading
the post by Lee I guess that the additional area that was created in the
exit was more beneficial than the lip that used to be there. It is a bit
perplexing though as I have been told on the list that 1.5:1 is the correct
ratio for exit area as opposed to entry area and I have way more than that.
Now for the next problem. About 5 years ago I had a rudder cable disconnec
t
from the rudder pedal as I was landing in a 15 knot cross wind. Upon
landing the only thing I could do was to hit the rudder pedal that was stil
l
connected and ground loop the plane. As I looped the gear collapsed and I
ended up damaging the wing spar in one of my wings thus having to replace
the wing. I think, after much consternation, that the new wing isn=B9t an
exact match of the old one and thus I am left wing heavy. We have tried al
l
of the tricks of moving around the flaps but I still have to hold maximum
aileron trim when I am in cruise. Any one have any tricks to changing the
way a wing works short of having a new pair made?
If N540HB were a person she would be a case study at Johns Hopkins.
Tried to send the pics, they wouldn=B9t go, if anyone would like to see them
let me know and I will send them to you out of this system.
Ernest
On 11/7/09 8:11 AM, "Lee Logan" <leeloganster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom:- I hear you loud and clear.- My plan, now that my temps are quite lo
w all
> around, is to incrementally close my exit back up until the temps react u
pward
> and then to "tune" the outlet smaller and smaller until I reach (hopefull
y)
> faster speeds and acceptable temps.- Right now, I have some "excess" to p
lay
> with---and I'm glad to have it!
>
> Regards,
>
> Lee...
>
> 2009/11/7 Tom Martin <fairlea@amtelecom.net>
>>> -------- It is nice to see some action on the rocket list! --Engine coo
ling,
>>> especially with rockets, has been something that I have been working on
for
>>> quite a few years on quite a few planes. -My focus has not only been to
>>> properly cool the engine but to do so without increasing drag. -If you
open
>>> the bottom of the cowling you will, usually, improve cooling. -However
if
>>> not done properly this will also increase drag and hence reduce speed.
--Yes
>>> I know that there will be those that say that they have not noticed any
>>> degradation of speed but that has not been my experience.
>>> -------- Lay on your back under your airplane and look up at the firewa
ll.-
>>> If you can see the firewall you have increased the drag of your airplan
e.-
>>> The air exiting the cowling is pushing down that firewall and creating
>>> turbulence with the rest of the exiting air and the outside air that is
>>> rushing past the cowling. -If you need more opening it would be better
to
>>> drop the floor of the cowling and extend it aft. -Yes this is more work
but
>>> what it does, is to get the air exiting the cowling going in the same
>>> direction as the air going past the airplane. -Internal ductwork in the
>>> lower cowling and cleaning up the outlet area can also improve flow and
>>> reduce drag by increasing the speed of the exit air.
>>> -------- All that work will be for naught if your inlets are not formed
>>> properly. -By that I mean that there should be no rough edges, there sh
ould
>>> be a smooth transition area and tight seals around the inlet and the up
per
>>> plenum. -
>>> -------- My work has been proven in the races that I have participated
in
>>> during the last few years http://sportairrace.org/index.html --note the
>>> recent Pagosa Springs race where my average speed was 220.5 knots placi
ng me
>>> in front of three, count them three, Glassair IIIs. -The HRIIs, over th
e
>>> last few years, have not been doing that well in the races as compared
to
>>> the F1s and particularly in regards to John Huft=B9s very fast RV8.- He h
as
>>> been kicking some rocket butt.- You will not see huge exit air outlets
on
>>> any of the fast airplanes in these races.- While you may not be interes
ted
>>> in racing, drag reduction, with improved cooling, will save you money o
n
>>> each and every flight you take.
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG.
>>
>
>
>
> <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
om>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Road Landing |
Great story.
Nice job getting the airplane tucked away so quickly!
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Not a Rocket but pretty close so I'll throw my nickel in the ring.
Had an engine out in my RV3 several yrs ago, was in the pattern but due
to altitude, wind, runway configuration ect decided to use the County
road that runs next to the Airpark (54T) No traffic so was only
concerned with powerlines as I got low. Had decided that two things were
NOT going to happen, no stalling allowed and no running into any
powerlines. As I got close to the road on final discovered 6 sets of
wires running across the road in my path, altitude and speed allowed me
to overfly 5 of them , as I approached the last set made the decision to
fly over #5 and under #6. Prolly could have overflown #6 too but
speed/altitude were was depleting. Remembered the 2 rules vividly.
Nice plan but the devil is in the details, plenty of clearance on the
wires but flew the plane into the road, folded the gear up to the point
that the wheels dented the wing tanks, slid to a stop, hopped out
(expecting a fire) before the plane stopped. no fire, tanks intact but
dented.
Half a dozen spectators stopped quickly, one of them took me to my
house 2 blocks away where I got my truck and boat trailer, 10-12 of us
lifted the plane onto the trailer and I had it locked up in my hangar 20
min after touchdown, no TV, no newspaper, sheriff, FAA etc. WHEW !!
I had flown the RV about 500 hrs and had practiced engine outs many
times with an idling engine.
There is a BIG difference between idling and engine stopped in sink
rate. BIG difference.
Had a sore butt for a month and the seat belt bruises were world class
but the rest was just aluminum distress which is easier to fix than
compressed vertebrae. Lucky that day !
Still don't understand why I flew it into the road, have done a couple
hundred of beach, off airport landings in the RV prior to that and was
comfortable (maybe too comfortable) in the airplane.
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