---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/24/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Danny) 2. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Daniel Weseman) 3. 10:54 AM - Re: New Rocket Builder (Speedy11@aol.com) 4. 11:08 AM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 05/23/10 (robmokry@covad.net) 5. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Vern Little) 6. 01:11 PM - rocket tails (Daniel Weseman) 7. 01:33 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Rob Ray) 8. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Lee Logan) 9. 04:15 PM - Re: rocket tails (Vern Little) 10. 06:05 PM - Re: rocket tails (Danny) 11. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Jim Stone) 12. 11:01 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Fred LaForge) 13. 11:42 PM - Rocket - your TAS and stall speeds? Not book figures, I mean - yours (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder From: Danny I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffener s and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moment s with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was tim e to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autop ilot and changed the stick to 4130. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Lee Logan Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... ======================== =========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:23 AM PST US From: Daniel Weseman Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Hi-Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also -could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage-with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several- reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any in fo would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens-etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any-advice / pictures =0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanw eseman@yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Danny =0ATo: rocke t-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM=0ASubject: Re: R ocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0AI pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recen t incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had i t apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130.=0A =0A=0ADanny Melnik =0AF1 N14ZM =0ARocket Factory =0AMelbourne, FL=0A=0A=0A- ----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Lee Logan =0ATo: rocket-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0A=0ADanny: -Hadn't heard that yo u had your airplane "down". -What did you do to it?=0A=0ALee...-=0A =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Rocket-List================= =================== tp://forums.matr onics.com ===================== =============== _blank>http://www.matronics. com/contribution=================== ======================== _ ===== =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:50 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Yes - Spruce Creek. I didn't know you already had a flying plane. Hop down sometime. There are several HRs here and at least two Rockets under construction. There's a nice restaurant on the airport that serves a great meal - breakfast, lunch or dinner. So, the trip is worthwhile even if you don't see any Rockets (but you will). I'm on vacation this week and could show you around Tues or Wed afternoon. Regards, Stan Sutterfield 813-732-7369 Hi Stan ,-By port Orange i guess you mean spruce creek? its about a-25 minute flight in my current-homebuilt. I would love to get in touch with any FL builders , feel free to foward my info or-put me in touch . Thanks ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:01 AM PST US Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 05/23/10 From: robmokry@covad.net Young Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Rocket-List Digest Server Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 05/23/10 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-05-23&Archive=Rocket Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-05-23&Archive=Rocket =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Rocket-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/23/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:57 AM - Re: New Rocket Builder (Speedy11@aol.com) 2. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Daniel Weseman) 3. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Rob Ray) 4. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Daniel Weseman) 5. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Ernest Hale) 6. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Danny) 7. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: New Rocket Builder (Lee Logan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:31 AM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Dan and Danny, I saw your post in Feb and just sending a note to let you know there are several Rocket builders and several flying versions at Port Orange - which is not too far a drive for you. If you're interested in driving over to see the projects, let me know and I can put you in touch with the guys. Stan Sutterfield RV-8A finished in Jun 09 www.rv-8a.net Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions =0A-Dan Weseman ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:04 PM PST US From: Daniel Weseman Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Hi Stan ,-By port Orange i guess you mean spruce creek? its about a-25 minute flight in my current-homebuilt. I would love to get in touch with any FL builders , feel free to foward my info or-put me in touch . Thanks =0A-=0ADan Weseman=0A904 529 9562=0Adanweseman@yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex .com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0AFrom: "Speedy11@aol.com" =0ATo: rocket-list@matronics .com; danweseman@yahoo.com=0ASent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:56:27 AM=0ASubject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0A=0A=0ADan and Danny,=0AI saw your post in Feb and just sending a note to let you know there are several Rock et builders and several flying versions at Port Orange - which is not too f ar a drive for you.=0AIf you're interested in driving over to see the proje cts, let me know and I can put you in touch with the guys.=0AStan Sutterfie ld=0ARV-8A finished in Jun 09=0Awww.rv-8a.net=0AHi all Im new to the list ( about a week) and have not seen much traffic her=0A>e? Im building a HRII#4 85 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha=0A>ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www=0A>.flycleanex.com -======================= ============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:46 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Dan, Youre always welcome to look over my "classic" HR2 for building tips, maybe a Jax area Rocket fly-in is in order:) to quote John "everywhere is close when you have a Harmon Rocket"! Smokey Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote: Hi Stan , By port Orange i guess you mean spruce creek? its about a 25 minute flight in my current homebuilt. I would love to get in touch with any FL builders , feel free to foward my info or put me in touch . Thanks Dan Weseman 904 529 9562 danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: "Speedy11@aol.com" Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:56:27 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Dan and Danny, I saw your post in Feb and just sending a note to let you know there are several Rocket builders and several flying versions at Port Orange - which is not too far a drive for you. If you're interested in driving over to see the projects, let me know and I can put you in touch with the guys. Stan Sutterfield RV-8A finished in Jun 09 www.rv-8a.net Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions =0A-Dan Weseman ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:02 PM PST US From: Daniel Weseman Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Ok A North FL-Rocket flyin is on ! I dont think i will-have time to do it pre Oshkosh though-So how about early fall? That brings up ...what dos e the Rocket group do at Oshkosh ? I will see what works and get it going. Roby I would love to fly down in the next few weeks and take a bunch of pho tos of various details? Thanks=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yahoo.com=0Aww w.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________ _____________=0AFrom: Rob Ray =0ATo: "rocket-list@ matronics.com" =0ASent: Sun, May 23, 2010 7:37:2 6 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0A=0ADan,=0A- -Youre always welcome to look over my "classic" HR2 for building tips, ma ybe a Jax area Rocket fly-in is in order:) to quote John "everywhere is clo se when you have a Harmon Rocket"!=0ASmokey=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AO n May 23, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote:=0A =0A=0AHi Stan ,-By port Orange i guess you mean spruce creek? its about a -25 minute flight in my current-homebuilt. I would love to get in touch with any FL builders , feel free to foward my info or-put me in touch . Thanks=0A>-=0A>Dan Weseman=0A>904 529 9562=0A>danweseman@yahoo.com=0A>www .flycleanex.com=0A>www.fly5thbearing.com =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A___________ _____________________=0AFrom: "Speedy11@aol.com" =0A>To: rocket-list@matronics.com; danweseman@yahoo.com=0A>Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:56:27 AM=0A>Subject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Dan and Danny,=0A>I saw your post in Feb and just sending a note to let you know there are several Rocket builders and several flying versions at Port Orange - which is not too far a drive for you.=0A>If you're interested in driving over to see the projects, let me know and I can put you in touch wi th the guys.=0A>Stan Sutterfield=0A>RV-8A finished in Jun 09=0A>www.rv-8a.n et=0A>Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traff ic her=0A>>e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of J ax FL At ha=0A>>ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www=0A>>.flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions ======0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder From: Ernest Hale I am in Jax, let me know if you plan a get together. Ernest Hale N540HB On 5/23/10 7:37 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: > Dan, > Youre always welcome to look over my "classic" HR2 for building tips, maybe > a Jax area Rocket fly-in is in order:) to quote John "everywhere is close when > you have a Harmon Rocket"! > Smokey > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 23, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote: > >> Hi Stan , By port Orange i guess you mean spruce creek? its about a 25 minute >> flight in my current homebuilt. I would love to get in touch with any FL >> builders , feel free to foward my info or put me in touch . Thanks >> >> Dan Weseman >> >> 904 529 9562 >> danweseman@yahoo.com >> www.flycleanex.com >> www.fly5thbearing.com >> >> >> >> >> From: "Speedy11@aol.com" >> To: rocket-list@matronics.com; danweseman@yahoo.com >> >> Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:56:27 AM >> Subject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder >> >> >> Dan and Danny, >> I saw your post in Feb and just sending a note to let you know there are >> several Rocket builders and several flying versions at Port Orange - which is >> not too far a drive for you. >> If you're interested in driving over to see the projects, let me know and I >> can put you in touch with the guys. >> Stan Sutterfield >> RV-8A finished in Jun 09 >> www.rv-8a.net >>> Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic her >>> e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha >>> ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at www >>> .flycleanex.com Im sure i >>> will have many questions =0A-Dan Weseman >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder From: Danny I'm hoping to have N14ZM back together and flying in the next 2 weeks or so. A short trip North would be a good shake down. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Hale Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 8:49 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I am in Jax, let me know if you plan a get together. Ernest Hale N540HB On 5/23/10 7:37 PM, "Rob Ray" wrote: Dan, Youre always welcome to look over my "classic" HR2 for building tips, ma ybe a Jax area Rocket fly-in is in order:) to quote John "everywhere is cl ose when you have a Harmon Rocket"! Smokey Sent from my iPhone On May 23, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote: Hi Stan , By port Orange i guess you mean spruce creek? its about a 25 min ute flight in my current homebuilt. I would love to get in touch with any FL builders , feel free to foward my info or put me in touch . Thanks Dan Weseman 904 529 9562 danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: "Speedy11@aol.com" oo.com> Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:56:27 AM Subject: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Dan and Danny, I saw your post in Feb and just sending a note to let you know there are several Rocket builders and several flying versions at Port Orange - whic h is not too far a drive for you. If you're interested in driving over to see the projects, let me know and I can put you in touch with the guys. Stan Sutterfield RV-8A finished in Jun 09 www.rv-8a.net Hi all Im new to the list (about a week) and have not seen much traffic he r e? Im building a HRII#485 from RV -4 kit #771. I live south of Jax FL At ha ller Airpark (7FL4) This is my second project . You can see my first at ww w .flycleanex.com Im sure i will have many questions =0A-Dan Weseman Email Forum - ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - matronics.com ;- List Contribution Web Site - ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================= ========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================= ======================= ========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================= ======================= ========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================= ======================= ========== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder From: Lee Logan Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:37 AM PST US From: "Vern Little" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experience with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail. Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm Vern Little RV-9A (flying 4+ years) HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage) From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Danny Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Lee Logan Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List==== ======= tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== = ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:26:00 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:02 PM PST US From: Daniel Weseman Subject: Rocket-List: rocket tails Hi Vern , I looked over your page a few months ago when this topic came up ! I plan to do the mods-basicly as you did , plus a few others ive seen . When you say thick skinned tail which skins are thicker ? my control surfac es are .020 and my VS-and HS skins are .032 ? -How do you get on the F- 1 list ?-Thanks =0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex .com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0AFrom: Vern Little =0ATo: rocket-list@matronic s.com=0ASent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:06 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0A=0AI'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't ha ve any real-life experience with tail shake.- However, based on informati on from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforc ement to the thick-skinned -4 tail.=0AHere are the details: http://www.vx-a viation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm=0A-=0AVern Little=0ARV-9A (flying 4+ y ears)=0AHR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage)=0A=0A=0AFrom: Dan iel Weseman =0ASent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM=0ATo: rocket-list@matron ics.com =0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0AHi-Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also-could y ou detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenag e-with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several-reinforcem ents to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would b e great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on ho w it happens-etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface sk ins ? Thanks for any-advice / pictures =0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yah oo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________=0AFrom: Danny =0ATo: rocket-list@matr onics.com=0ASent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0AI pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I'v e up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130.=0A=0A=0ADanny Melnik =0AF1 N14ZM =0ARocket Factory =0AMelbourne, FL=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Lee Logan =0ATo: rocket-list@ matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List : Re: New Rocket Builder=0A=0A=0ADanny: -Hadn't heard that you had your a irplane "down". -What did you do to it?=0A=0ALee...-=0A ==== ======= target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? Rocket-List=========== tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribu =========================0A ========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" >http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A________________________________=0ARelease Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:48 PM PST US From: Rob Ray Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Dan, I have never had tail shake on my HR2 nor have I ever heard of it on an HR2 with RV4 empennage. Mine is an early one (95") It has an RV4 tail with .020 tail feathers. Two-twenty on the knots indicated, no worries. I fly final into my 1400" strip at 65 indicated, no shake there either:) Smokey Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Daniel Weseman wrote: Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: Danny Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Lee Logan Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List==================================== tp://forums.matronics.com ==================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution==================================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder From: Lee Logan You're always on top of things, Danny! I look forward to hearing you're back in the air! I'll be changing my stick to 4130, soon... Lee... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:10 PM PST US From: "Vern Little" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: rocket tails Yup, same thicknesses as you as I recall. I got on the F-1 List by buying lot$ of $tuff from Mark Frederick (slider canopy, fairings, quadrant etc.) Money talks, I guess! I will be buying a bunch of stuff from John Harmon soon, so I don't play favorites. A friend has built an HR-II with a slider (photo on home page), so I know it can be done. http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/ Vern From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: Rocket-List: rocket tails Hi Vern , I looked over your page a few months ago when this topic came up ! I plan to do the mods basicly as you did , plus a few others ive seen .When you say thick skinned tail which skins are thicker ? my control surfaces are .020 and my VS and HS skins are .032 ? How do you get on the F-1 list ? Thanks Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Vern Little Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:06 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experience with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail. Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm Vern Little RV-9A (flying 4+ years) HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage) From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Danny Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Lee Logan Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List==== ======= tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== = href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00 http://www.matronics.com/contributi============= ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:26:00 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Rocket-List: rocket tails From: Danny I have not heard of any issues with the modified RV-4 tails. Only the F1. On my airplane the tail would shake as low as 195 KIAS. Others I have spo ken to have had the issue at higher speeds or not at all. I believe the ju ry is still out as to what is the root cause. The general consensus of th e aero eng types I have spoken to say that something, maybe turbulence com ing off the airframe ahead of the stab or something in the elevator is set ting up a vibe that when it hits the right frequency is causing the horiz stab to shake. Stiffening the horiz stab has helped in a couple of the ai rplanes with this issue. At least one airplane was fixed by changing the shape of the elevator trailing edge. I tried the elevator trailing mod but it did not improve things. I then no ticed my elevator skins were a bit concave just before the tailing edge jo ggle. I had access to a set of factory built F1 elavators so I bought thes e and installed them. This seemed to fix the issue until the plane was pai nted last year. The tail shook on the return flight home. I tried rebalanc ing things and tried the trailing edge mod again. This time it improved th ings a bit but the issue was still there. According to Mark, early F1 tail kits had .032" front spars and .040" rear spars. Later kits had .040" front and rear spars. Mine is an early one so I added an .040" doubler to the front and rear of the front spar. These go out to the mid rib position. I also added an .040" doubler to the fron t of the rear spar that extends to and picks up the mid hinge brackets. Sk in stiffeners are .040" and I reassembled the whole thing with Pro Seal on the faying surfaces. The horz stab is much stiffer now and hopfully this will work. I'll know in a couple of weeks. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Vern Little Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 7:14 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: rocket tails Yup, same thicknesses as you as I recall. I got on the F-1 List by buying lot$ of $tuff from Mark Frederick (slider canopy, fairings, quadrant etc.) Money talks, I guess! I will be buying a bunch of stuff from John Harmon soon, so I don't play favorites. A friend has built an HR-II with a slider (photo on home page), so I know it can be done. http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/ Vern From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: Rocket-List: rocket tails Hi Vern , I looked over your page a few months ago when this topic came up ! I plan to do the mods basicly as you did , plus a few others ive seen .When you say thick skinned tail which skins are thicker ? my control sur faces are .020 and my VS and HS skins are .032 ? How do you get on the F- 1 list ? Thanks Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: Vern Little Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 2:32:06 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experienc e with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail. Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm Vern Little RV-9A (flying 4+ years) HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage) From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several re inforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any inf o would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com From: Danny Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffener s and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moment s with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was tim e to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autop ilot and changed the stick to 4130. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Lee Logan Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... =========== target=_blank>http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Rocket-List=========== tp://forums .matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matro nics.com/contribution=========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00 http://www.matronics.com/contributi============= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00 ======================== =========== -= - The Rocket-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:46 PM PST US From: Jim Stone Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder He Lee, I missed the 4130 stick story, why you changing it. Did you bend yours in an 8 G Hornet pull? Jim Stone Louisville PS Ben Cunningham is getting close to first flight with new engine (Lyc). On May 24, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Lee Logan wrote: You're always on top of things, Danny! I look forward to hearing you're back in the air! I'll be changing my stick to 4130, soon... Lee... ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:57 PM PST US From: "Fred LaForge" Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder How fast do you fellows have to fly to get the tail to shake? I'm still building my first HR-II, so I don't have any real-life experience with tail shake. However, based on information from the F1 blog, I have added HS skin stiffeners and a HS spar reinforcement to the thick-skinned -4 tail. Here are the details: http://www.vx-aviation.com/sprocket/empennage.htm Vern Little RV-9A (flying 4+ years) HR-II (getting ready to close wings and fuselage) From: Daniel Weseman Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:15 AM To: rocket-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Hi Danny can you describe the "tail shake" and how when it occurred? Also could you detail your "upgrades" to the tail components ? I have a nice -4 empenage with .020 control surface skins. I was considering several reinforcements to the the horizontal and vertical spars / skins , so any info would be great. I have heard the term "tail shake" but couldnt find any info on how it happens etc and how to fix it other than use .020 control surface skins ? Thanks for any advice / pictures Dan Weseman danweseman@yahoo.com www.flycleanex.com www.fly5thbearing.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Danny To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 11:27:15 AM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder I pulled the horizontal stab off it to beef it up with some skin stiffeners and spar doublers. I had too many "OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT" moments with the tail shake. With the recent incident in CA I decided it was time to try and fix things. While I had it apart I've up dated the GPS, autopilot and changed the stick to 4130. Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Lee Logan To: rocket-list@matronics.com Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:57 pm Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder Danny: Hadn't heard that you had your airplane "down". What did you do to it? Lee... =========== target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List==== ======= tp://forums.matronics.com =========== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== = href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Release Date: 05/24/10 06:26:00 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:26 PM PST US From: ACTIVE NZ - Andrew Subject: Rocket-List: Rocket - your TAS and stall speeds? Not book figures, I mean - yours Guys, a quick question? I know the official answers are on FAQs all over t he place, but would like no-BS from the horse's (pilot's) mouth answers. My HRII seems to give me about 198 knots TRUE airspeed, at, say 6000 feet, WO T, 2500 rpm. I would be interested to know in your figures - TRUE airspeed @ power settings, sea level and at altitude, plus whether you're flying an HRII, an F1 (Hershey Bar) or F1/Evo/tapered wing. Also, what airspeed does your aircraft stall at? 'Ppreciate it. I'm toying with upgrading, although my trusty steed has give n me 700 happy and troublefree hours, and I wouldn't switch her out lightly .... Andrew New Zealand ________________________________ From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Re: New Rocket Builder He Lee, I missed the 4130 stick story, why you changing it. Did you bend yours in an 8 G Hornet pull? Jim Stone Louisville PS Ben Cunningham is getting close to first flight with new engine (Lyc). On May 24, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Lee Logan wrote: You're always on top of things, Danny! I look forward to hearing you're ba ck in the air! I'll be changing my stick to 4130, soon... Lee... 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D .com/contribution"> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rocket-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Rocket-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rocket-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rocket-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.