Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:27 AM - Prop me Up! (Rob Ray)
2. 01:21 PM - Re: Prop me Up! (Tom Gummo)
3. 05:01 PM - Re: Prop me Up! (Daniel Weseman)
4. 05:25 PM - Re: Prop me Up! (Tom Gummo)
5. 06:18 PM - Re: Prop me Up! (Daniel Weseman)
6. 08:46 PM - Re: Prop me Up! (lessdragprod@aol.com)
Message 1
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Guys,
--I have decided to "lighten up" the front end of my HR2 and go to a co
mposite propeller. I have seen several MT props for sale in BS and wonder h
ow you MT flyers like your prop? I also like the Whirlwind but $$$ is a fac
tor. -Jim A and Gummy are running 4 blades, how do you guys like them?-
- Since most of my flying includes over the top aerobatics, a lighter nos
e would be nice although my Hartzell 2 blade "paddle" has served me well.
-
--Any comments prop or con would be appreciated.
Smokey=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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Smokey,
I very much like the look of my MT prop. As I don't fly in the weather
and live in the desert, I have not seen the effects of rain on the
paint. I think I remember hearing about the paint taking a beating when
flying in heavy rain.
I have two issues with the four blade MT prop I have. First, I lost
about 10 knots TAS at cruise altitude with the four blade. When I had
the Hartzell two blade, at 10.5 or 11.5 my normal cruise altitude, full
throttle, prop back to 2100 or so, leaned out to 10.5 gallons per hour,
I trued at 180 knots. Now, I true at 170 knots under that same
conditions. Again, it sure looks good. Jim Ayers tells me that I don't
have enough power to use the prop properly (my IO-540 J4A5, is only 250
hp). I did get a great deal from John when I got it. (See, I told you
all that I have the slowest rocket.)
Jim Ayers allowed me to use a three blade MT prop for a couple weeks and
it very hard to tell it there was any speed lost at all. I keep trying
to get him find someone that wants the four blade and will trade me for
the three blade.
Second, I use the full throttle hot start technique. As all the weight
is in the hub, it spins up quickly. (It was only two pounds lighter
than the Hartzell.) So when the engine starts, it CAN very quickly gets
to 1200 to 1500 prm while I am reducing the throttle, adding mixture,
etc. etc (normally, I don't see that high of rpm on start but it has
happened).
I have had the tail come off the ground and don't want ANOTHER Prop
strike (reason for getting another prop in the first place). Which, it
why I clear in front of me and if the plane wants to roll a couple feet
while I am starting, I let it. So, while I call this an issue, it is
not problem at all. Like most things, just learn to deal with it.
So fly out to SoCal and I will let you see the prop from the rear seat.
:-)
GummiBear
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Ray
To: Rocket List
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:48 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!
Guys,
I have decided to "lighten up" the front end of my HR2
and go to a composite propeller. I have seen several MT props for sale
in BS and wonder how you MT flyers like your prop? I also like the
Whirlwind but $$$ is a factor. Jim A and Gummy are running 4 blades,
how do you guys like them?
Since most of my flying includes over the top
aerobatics, a lighter nose would be nice although my Hartzell 2 blade
"paddle" has served me well.
Any comments prop or con would be appreciated.
Smokey
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Message 3
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wanna sell-the 2 blade hartzell?=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yahoo.com
=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________
__________________=0AFrom: Tom Gummo <t.gummo@verizon.net>=0ATo: rocket-lis
t@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, July 6, 2010 4:18:50 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-
List: Prop me Up!=0A=0A=0ASmokey,=0A-=0AI very much like the look of my M
T prop.- As I don't fly in the weather and live =0Ain the desert, I have
not seen the effects of rain on the paint.- I think I =0Aremember hearing
about the paint taking a beating when flying in heavy rain.=0A-=0AI have
two issues with the four blade MT prop I have.- First, I lost about 10
=0Aknots TAS at cruise altitude with the four blade.- When I had the Hart
zell two =0Ablade,-at 10.5 or 11.5 my normal cruise altitude, full thrott
le, prop back to =0A2100 or so, leaned out to 10.5 gallons per hour, I true
d at 180 knots.- Now, I =0Atrue at 170 knots under that same conditions.
- Again, it sure looks good.- Jim =0AAyers tells me that I don't have e
nough power to use the prop properly (my =0AIO-540 J4A5, is only 250 hp).
- I did get a great deal from John when I got it.- =0A(See, I told you
all that I have the slowest rocket.)=0A-=0AJim Ayers allowed me to use a
three blade MT prop for a couple weeks and it very =0Ahard to tell it there
was any speed lost at all.- I keep trying to get him find =0Asomeone tha
t wants the four blade and will trade me for the three blade. =0A=0A-=0AS
econd, I use the full throttle hot start technique.- As all the weight is
in =0Athe hub, it spins up quickly.- (It was only two pounds lighter tha
n the =0AHartzell.)- So when the engine starts, it CAN very quickly gets
to 1200 to 1500 =0Aprm while I am reducing the throttle, adding mixture, et
c. etc (normally, I =0Adon't see that high of rpm on start but it has happe
ned).=0AI have had the tail come off the ground and don't want ANOTHER-Pr
op strike =0A(reason for getting another prop in the first place).- Which
, it why I clear in =0Afront of me and if the plane wants to roll a couple
feet while I am starting, I =0Alet it.- So, while I call this an issue, i
t is not problem at all.- Like most =0Athings, just learn to deal with it
.=0A-=0ASo fly out to SoCal and-I will let-you see the prop from the
-rear seat.- =0A:-)-----=0A-=0AGummiBear=0A----- Original M
essage ----- =0A>From: Rob Ray =0A>To: Rocket List =0A>Sent: Tuesday, July
06, 2010 6:48 AM=0A>Subject: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!=0A>=0A>=0A>Guys, =0A>
=0A>=0A>--I have decided to "lighten up" the front end of my HR2 and go
to a composite =0A>propeller. I have seen several MT props for sale in BS
and wonder how you MT =0A>flyers like your prop? I also like the Whirlwind
but $$$ is a factor. -Jim A and =0A>Gummy are running 4 blades, how do yo
u guys like them?=0A>-- Since most of my flying includes over the top a
erobatics, a lighter nose =0A>would be nice although my Hartzell 2 blade "p
addle" has served me well.-=0A>=0A>=0A>--Any comments prop or con wou
ld be appreciated.=0A>=0A>=0A>Smokey =0A>=0A> =0A>href="http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.mat
ronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A> href="http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A>=0A>=0A>__________ Informati
on from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature =0A>database 5256
(20100706) __________=0A>=0A>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antiviru
===================== =0A>=0A=0A
=0A
Message 4
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Dan,
I would love to sell you the 2 blade hartzell. How about 3000
dollars????
WAIT !!
REREAD !!
the reason for changing to four blade MT.
"don't want ANOTHER Prop strike (reason for getting another prop in the
first place)." :-(
I might even give it to you. :-)
I would have gone with another 2 blade Hartzell but there was a 6 month
wait and I drove and got the MT prop from John Harmon the next day.
After the engine was re-installed after the prop strike check, I was
flying a day later.
I have beeb loaning out the prop hub to help builders adjust and fit
their cowl.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
GummiBear
N561FS - Harmon Rocket II
375 hours and still smiling
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Weseman
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!
wanna sell the 2 blade hartzell?
Dan Weseman
danweseman@yahoo.com
www.flycleanex.com
www.fly5thbearing.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Tom Gummo <t.gummo@verizon.net>
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 4:18:50 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!
Smokey,
I very much like the look of my MT prop. As I don't fly in the
weather and live in the desert, I have not seen the effects of rain on
the paint. I think I remember hearing about the paint taking a beating
when flying in heavy rain.
I have two issues with the four blade MT prop I have. First, I lost
about 10 knots TAS at cruise altitude with the four blade. When I had
the Hartzell two blade, at 10.5 or 11.5 my normal cruise altitude, full
throttle, prop back to 2100 or so, leaned out to 10.5 gallons per hour,
I trued at 180 knots. Now, I true at 170 knots under that same
conditions. Again, it sure looks good. Jim Ayers tells me that I don't
have enough power to use the prop properly (my IO-540 J4A5, is only 250
hp). I did get a great deal from John when I got it. (See, I told you
all that I have the slowest rocket.)
Jim Ayers allowed me to use a three blade MT prop for a couple weeks
and it very hard to tell it there was any speed lost at all. I keep
trying to get him find someone that wants the four blade and will trade
me for the three blade.
Second, I use the full throttle hot start technique. As all the
weight is in the hub, it spins up quickly. (It was only two pounds
lighter than the Hartzell.) So when the engine starts, it CAN very
quickly gets to 1200 to 1500 prm while I am reducing the throttle,
adding mixture, etc. etc (normally, I don't see that high of rpm on
start but it has happened).
I have had the tail come off the ground and don't want ANOTHER Prop
strike (reason for getting another prop in the first place). Which, it
why I clear in front of me and if the plane wants to roll a couple feet
while I am starting, I let it. So, while I call this an issue, it is
not problem at all. Like most things, just learn to deal with it.
So fly out to SoCal and I will let you see the prop from the rear
seat. :-)
GummiBear
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Ray
To: Rocket List
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:48 AM
Subject: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!
Guys,
I have decided to "lighten up" the front end of my HR2
and go to a composite propeller. I have seen several MT props for sale
in BS and wonder how you MT flyers like your prop? I also like the
Whirlwind but $$$ is a factor. Jim A and Gummy are running 4 blades,
how do you guys like them?
Since most of my flying includes over the top
aerobatics, a lighter nose would be nice although my Hartzell 2 blade
"paddle" has served me well.
Any comments prop or con would be appreciated.
Smokey
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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signature database 5256 (20100706) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Roc="http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution" rel=nofollow target=_blank>h
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
Message 5
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Sorry i was-asking Smokey....-180 knots at 10.5 gph... im going out to
buck some =0Arivets =0A=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yahoo.com=0Awww.flycl
eanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0AFrom: Tom Gummo <t.gummo@verizon.net>=0ATo: rocket-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Tue, July 6, 2010 8:24:39 PM=0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: Prop m
e Up!=0A=0A=0ADan,=0A-=0AI would love to sell you the 2 blade hartzell.
- How about 3000 dollars????=0A-=0AWAIT !!=0A-=0AREREAD !!=0A-=0Ath
e reason for changing to-four blade MT.-=0A-=0A"don't want ANOTHER-
Prop strike (reason for getting another prop in the first =0Aplace)."- :-
(=0A-=0AI might even give it to you.- :-)=0A-=0AI would have gone wit
h another 2 blade Hartzell but there was a 6 month wait and =0AI drove and
got the MT prop from John Harmon the next day. After the engine was =0Are-i
nstalled after the prop strike check, I-was flying a day later.=0A-=0AI
have beeb loaning out the prop hub to help builders adjust and fit their c
owl.=0A-=0ADO NOT ARCHIVE=0A-=0AGummiBear=0AN561FS - Harmon Rocket II
=0A375 hours and still smiling=0A-=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>
From: Daniel Weseman =0A>To: rocket-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Tuesday, J
uly 06, 2010 4:59 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!=0A>=0A>=0A>wa
nna sell-the 2 blade hartzell?=0A>-Dan Weseman=0A>danweseman@yahoo.com
=0A>www.flycleanex.com=0A>www.fly5thbearing.com =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A____
____________________________=0AFrom: Tom Gummo <t.gummo@verizon.net>=0A>To:
rocket-list@matronics.com=0A>Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 4:18:50 PM=0A>Subject
: Re: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!=0A>=0A>=0A>Smokey,=0A>-=0A>I very much lik
e the look of my MT prop.- As I don't fly in the weather and live =0A>in
the desert, I have not seen the effects of rain on the paint.- I think I
=0A>remember hearing about the paint taking a beating when flying in heavy
rain.=0A>-=0A>I have two issues with the four blade MT prop I have.- Fi
rst, I lost about 10 =0A>knots TAS at cruise altitude with the four blade.
- When I had the Hartzell two =0A>blade,-at 10.5 or 11.5 my normal crui
se altitude, full throttle, prop back to =0A>2100 or so, leaned out to 10.5
gallons per hour, I trued at 180 knots.- Now, I =0A>true at 170 knots un
der that same conditions.- Again, it sure looks good.- Jim =0A>Ayers te
lls me that I don't have enough power to use the prop properly (my =0A>IO-5
40 J4A5, is only 250 hp).- I did get a great deal from John when I got it
.- =0A>(See, I told you all that I have the slowest rocket.)=0A>-=0A>Ji
m Ayers allowed me to use a three blade MT prop for a couple weeks and it v
ery =0A>hard to tell it there was any speed lost at all.- I keep trying t
o get him find =0A>someone that wants the four blade and will trade me for
the three blade. =0A>=0A>-=0A>Second, I use the full throttle hot start t
echnique.- As all the weight is in =0A>the hub, it spins up quickly.- (
It was only two pounds lighter than the =0A>Hartzell.)- So when the engin
e starts, it CAN very quickly gets to 1200 to 1500 =0A>prm while I am reduc
ing the throttle, adding mixture, etc. etc (normally, I =0A>don't see that
high of rpm on start but it has happened).=0A>I have had the tail come off
the ground and don't want ANOTHER-Prop strike =0A>(reason for getting ano
ther prop in the first place).- Which, it why I clear in =0A>front of me
and if the plane wants to roll a couple feet while I am starting, I =0A>let
it.- So, while I call this an issue, it is not problem at all.- Like m
ost =0A>things, just learn to deal with it.=0A>-=0A>So fly out to SoCal a
nd-I will let-you see the prop from the-rear seat.- =0A>:-)--
---=0A>-=0A>GummiBear=0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: Ro
b Ray =0A>>To: Rocket List =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:48 AM=0A>>Su
bject: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Guys, =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>--I
have decided to "lighten up" the front end of my HR2 and go to a composite
=0A>>propeller. I have seen several MT props for sale in BS and wonder how
you MT =0A>>flyers like your prop? I also like the Whirlwind but $$$ is a f
actor. -Jim A and =0A>>Gummy are running 4 blades, how do you guys like t
hem?=0A>>-- Since most of my flying includes over the top aerobatics, a
lighter nose =0A>>would be nice although my Hartzell 2 blade "paddle" has
served me well.-=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>--Any comments prop or con would be ap
preciated.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Smokey =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>href="http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matro
nics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>> href="http://www.matronics.com
/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>__________ Informa
tion from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature =0A>>database 52
56 (20100706) __________=0A>>=0A>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Ant
ivirus.=0A>>=0A>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Roc="http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution" =0A>>rel=nofollow target=_blank>h =0A>>=0A>=0A
> =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.m
atronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A> h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A>=0A>=0A>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of vi
rus signature =0A>database 5256 (20100706) __________=0A>=0A>The message wa
====== =0A>=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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Hi Smokey,
Tom Gummo has the 4 blade propeller designed for the HR3 with a 380 hp eng
ine. Tom Gummo's HR2 doesn't have a 380 hp engine. Therefore, the speed
loss.
The 4 blade propeller designed for the HR2 with 260 hp is set for cruise
at 15k. It is about 2 knots slower than the 3 blade MT propeller at 4k.
And slightly faster tah the 3 blade by around 9k.
If you are flying around 5k, then you'll want a 3 blade propeller. The st
andard 3 blade MT Propeller assembly weighs around 56 pounds, conpared to
66 pounds for a Hartzell 2 blade propeller assembly on the same scales.
The 3 blade MT propeller is about 2 knots faster than the "D" blade Hartze
ll, and the same speed as the "J" blade Hartzell, at Reno race altitudes.
With both the "D" blade Hartzell and the 3 blade MT Propeller strsight and
level at full throttle, above 2600 RPM the aircraft losses about 3 mph.
The "J" blade Hartzell keeps pulling to 2800 RPM. However, Wolfgang Meng
says with 330 hp, the "J" stops at 2600 RPM, also.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Ray <smokyray@rocketmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 6, 2010 6:48 am
Subject: Rocket-List: Prop me Up!
Guys,
I have decided to "lighten up" the front end of my HR2 and go to a compo
site propeller. I have seen several MT props for sale in BS and wonder how
you MT flyers like your prop? I also like the Whirlwind but $$$ is a fact
or. Jim A and Gummy are running 4 blades, how do you guys like them?
Since most of my flying includes over the top aerobatics, a lighter nos
e would be nice although my Hartzell 2 blade "paddle" has served me well.
Any comments prop or con would be appreciated.
Smokey
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