Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:27 AM - Re: Re: Dresden (Pat Ladd)
2. 07:41 AM - Fw: south taxi way (Daniel Weseman)
3. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Dresden (cybersuperstore)
4. 08:08 AM - Re: Fw: south taxi way (Daniel Weseman)
5. 09:57 AM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/10/10 (Speedy11@aol.com)
Message 1
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You were quite right to butt in.>>
Thanks Stan. Nice to have someone agree with me . I seem to find myself
more and more in disagreement with those around me (not my
contemporaries) these days.
Just to up my flying credentials a bit. Although I do fly a microlight,
I have a Jabi. 2200 in the power department.
Cheers
Good flying
Pat
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fw: south taxi way |
=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thb
earing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Sabina Pryce-Jo
nes <sabinapj@gmail.com>=0ATo: Daniel Weseman <danweseman@yahoo.com>=0ASent
: Sat, September 11, 2010 10:25:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: south taxi way=0A=0A
=0ADan=0AI agree with your approach. Let's wait to see what the engineer sa
ys. Then we =0Ashould probably move forward as lot owners with the DEP on p
ermitting driveway =0Aand utility easement through the wetlands. -I also
have a friend who use to work =0Aat DEP who I will consult with.-=0AThank
s=0ASabina=0A=0ASent from my iPhone=0A=0AOn Sep 11, 2010, at 8:45 AM, Danie
l Weseman <danweseman@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0APat ,To secure the easment
for T&G I need to know where our taxiway will =0Aconnect. The two factors t
hat determine this are=0A>-1. The decision on the "wetland area"=0A>Per y
our email we will know more about this Monday. =0A>-2.-The power pole a
t the corner of Airpark east and south.=0A>-- Ed Witt is handeling this
and will let us know what Clay electric says. Per =0A>the current "aggreme
nt "with Bob Weseman and Buzz Glade we need to stick to our =0A>origanal pl
an. the power pole can be moved 10ft south or-removed and run =0A>undergr
ound from the next pole north (best option in my opinin)=0A>---Also i
think it may be best if-The lot owners with the wetlands (Rachel and I
=0A>and Sabina) file fill permits for 30ft wide access and utilites. This w
as the =0A>easy part of my last dealing with DEP. The area is tiny and unle
ss alot has =0A>changed will not need to be mitigated. If we do it as a gro
up .... they will see =0A>this as a development!!! =0A>=0A>=0A>-So I thin
k to get the easment correct we need to--wait for information from =0A>
Clay Electric and the Enviormental Enginer this week. I will then work with
Bob =0A>and Buzz and we will move foward.=0A>=0A>Thanks =0A>Dan Weseman=0A
>danweseman@yahoo.com=0A>www.flycleanex.com=0A>www.fly5thbearing.com =0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "pdleeinfla@aol
.com" <pdleeinfla@aol.com>=0A>To: 1captdon1@att.net; jaxvanderbilt@comcast.
net; weseman@cproducts.net; =0A>Sabinapj@gmail.com; danweseman@yahoo.com; d
avedollarhide@msn.com; =0A>ewittsr@mecojax.com=0A>Sent: Wed, September 8, 2
010 9:24:33 PM=0A>Subject: Updates=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Ladies and gents,-
Thanks for the input.- I will tell Sarah to make changes to =0A>match byl
aws and to clarify-common areas to be taxiway easements where =0A>necessa
ry.- We have been talking to SJRWMD about our wetland issue.- We all kn
ew =0A>it was an issue, but the question was basically: how do we address i
t?- I talked =0A>to a wetland consultant tonight that is going to give us
advice as to how to =0A>proceed and what our options really are.- Steve
Hakala is a friend of Dave =0A>Vanderbilt and was very helpful over the pho
ne. His cost is $150.- He will look =0A>at the area next Monday and tell
us the best way to proceed.-=0A>--- -Over the phone he said there
are several options.- The first is to avoid =0A>the wetland.- We can d
o that by doing an S around the marked wet area.- I went =0A>down today a
nd marked off a taxiway that goes north around the wetland (in the =0A>Wese
man's property) and joins the road about 60 feet north of where we would
=0A>like to join.-I marked the entrance with PVC pipes with blue tops.-
Take a look =0A>and let me know what you think.-If we do this option, th
e power pole will not =0A>have to be moved but we will need a few feet from
Buzz Glade to make the turn. =0A>We would also have to get an OK from Dan
and Rachel.- (Maybe trade some clearing =0A>for more easement).- The se
cond option is to go the permitting route.- That =0A>would involve some c
ost and probably some mitigation (more cost).- DEP and the =0A>Corp of En
gineers will -get involved.- Neither are good as far as I can =0A>tell.
--The last option is to have a wetlands guy say that where we want to t
axi =0A>is not a wetland. If he can convince the state, then we can do what
we want.- =0A>All of these options need to start with someone that knows
what they are talking =0A>about. So I recommend we wait and listen to a pr
o tell us what we should do.- =0A>That will happen Monday=0A>--- In
the mean time the loggers are clearing and raking.-The look from the air
=0A>is really great.=0A>=0A>Pat=0A>=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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Thank you for that reality-check, Pat, perhaps more relevant with the
anniversary of 9/11 than at any other time.
As it goes with generations, the pain and immediate horror of war fade over
time and the intellectual discourse starts glossing over the realities of
the time, which spawned those horrible, not-always-appreciated decisions.
Only when another war looms on the horizon and some folks are brought before
choices that spawn tough decision all over again, do we get to reflect with
some semblance of realization on what folks got done back then.
If we look at new military technology, it is very clear that the U.S. has
become the leader in developing warring systems that minimize collateral
losses -- both human and property -- in a conflict, which is what we will
have in the future as opposed to full blown wars. You already saw that
happen in the span of those six terrible years ending in 1945.
The Iraq war has shown to what extent military targets can be selected and
destroyed with the precision only dreamt of in '45. But even back then the
U.S. has already demonstrated that just going out to break more things and
kill more people than one's enemy is not the way to go. It is much more
productive to break only the enemy's war machines and kill its combatants.
Razing museums and killing civilians hoping that the enemy will feel the
pain and stop fighting only works if the enemy fears losing its civilians
and its cities. The A-bombs on Japan were, hopefully, the last demonstration
of that military strategy, necessary as it was to end the war.
With today's technology such a scenario is unlikely to occur again since
arm-chair pilots sitting in lounge-like settings flying pilotless drones can
go in and stop any scenario that might develop into a kill-civilians
initiative.
Without the hindsight of history, as you pointed out, Pat, some might
fuzzy-over the reasons for spending the money to develop smart weapons
preventing a world conflict rather than winning one.
That is, provided the enemy's psyche remains in the four corners of what we
understand enemies to be. With the resurrection of 6th century thinking,
cultures and warfare, our neighbor and fellow American has become our enemy
and our neighborhoods have become our battlefields.
These are people who swore allegiance to a mythical figure represented by
remotely located clerics who have indoctrinated their people to consider the
pain of civilian-killings and museum-razing as passports to pie-in-the-sky
rewards for being killed.
So, the more bombs thrown on civilians the greater their victory becomes.
The more of their buildings razed the greater are our losses. The paradigm
of killing and destroying military targets on enemy territory still holds
true, but the location of those enemy-assets has shifted from their turf to
ours. If we hit an enemy combatant, we have killed a fellow American. If we
destroy a military target, we have hit a place of worship that is under the
protection of the U.S. Constitution.
Just as age brings new ailments to the fore for you and me, so it has done
to our country. We contract diseases as we get older that were latent in our
DNA and dormant during our youth just as America now suffers from diseases
to which the Constitution offers no cure. Mostly because the Founding
Fathers could never have imagined the challenges that we face today, such as
snake-oil salesmen who can dematerialize and transmit themselves in real
time into millions of people's homes at the same instant, assemble
themselves again and speak to the nation eye-to-eye in their living rooms.
Television, for example.
We allowed the enemy into our country when their only distinction was that
they were foreigners. And now those powers that keep us safe also prevent us
from solving the problem. It won't be resolved with drones hitting military
targets elsewhere. If we don't find a solution soon, it will be our blood
that will flow on our beaches because we will be forced to shoot at our
people to protect our liberties.
How's that for bad options on the horizon of choices that will require a
decision sooner rather than later.
Our very own Hiroshima moment.
_____
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 11:11 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Re: Dresden
Pat,
You were quite right to butt in. Your first hand experience adds insight.
It's terrible that we upset the "cultured people" all over Europe. Those
Europeans should have raises their concerns about "wartime culture" with the
Nazis.
I love Germany, but personally, I'm glad we have to option to speak, or not
speak, German.
We owe the allies who fought and won that war an enormous debt.
Stan Sutterfield
The destruction of the city provoked unease in intellectual circles in
Britain. According to Max Hastings (a renowned British historian), by
February 1945, attacks upon German cities had become largely irrelevant to
the outcome of the war and the name of Dresden possessed a resonance for
cultured people all over Europe ?" "the home of so much charm and beauty, a
refuge for Trollope's heroines, a landmark of the Grand Tour." He argues
that the bombing of Dresden was the first time Allied populations questioned
the military actions used to defeat the Nazis...
Hi,
as a lurker on the Rocket list ( just interest as I fly a microlight) I am
loth to post this but I just cannot let a discussion of Dresden pass by
without comment.
Being 81 I lived through the war ( and got bombed out) and perhaps have a
different viewpoint than those `second guessers` born later who have had the
luxury of hindsight when evaluating what should and should not have been
done.
Max Hastings is of course right when he says that there was `unease` in
intellectual circles. There was unease after we bombed Hiroshima and
Nagasaki but this was a problem which had to be solved IMMEDIATELY. The
decision would not wait for the luxury of intellectual discussion. There was
a war on, decisions had to be made NOW. The Germans and the Japs were still
fighting, they were not giving up. We had them on the back foot certainly
but that is the time to attack, not ease off. There was no `unease` among
the men who had to go in and die on the ground in Germany or storming the
beaches of the Japanese homeland. They all said `Serve the bastards right,
they started it`
There seems to be the idea that Dresden was sitting there making Dresden
porcelain figures. Were they hell. Any more than Bath or Coventry were.Bath
was stuffed to the gills with Admiralty Planning Departments and you
couldn`t throw a stone in Coventry without hitting an engineering works.
They were all `legitimate` targets.
Remember too that this was the end of the war and we had brought bombing to
a pretty fine art. We had a lot of practice and lost a lot of Bomber Command
and the American Airforce refining the problem. If Germany had been as
expert in bombing in the early part of the war as we were then do you think
that she would have worried about Bath, Bristol, Coventry, Plymouth, London
having `cultural resonance`. Of course not. They did their best to wipe out
those cities, it is just that ,like us at that time, they were not very good
at it.
Poor old `Bomber` Harris got a lot of stick just for carrying out his
orders. He was denied the rewards which were handed out to the commanders of
every other arm of the Services. His men ,who died in their thousands, were
denied a Campaign Medal even. Suddenly, when the need for them had passed
everyone became holier than thou` and began to voice doubts about the
bombing campaign, and decrying the efficacy of the results.
Sorry to but in
Pat
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: south taxi way |
Sorry this was sent to the wrong address=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanweseman@yaho
o.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: Daniel Weseman <danweseman@yahoo.com>=0ATo:
rocket-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, September 11, 2010 10:38:03 AM=0ASu
bject: Rocket-List: Fw: south taxi way=0A=0A=0A=0A-Dan Weseman=0Adanwesem
an@yahoo.com=0Awww.flycleanex.com=0Awww.fly5thbearing.com =0A=0A=0A=0A-----
Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Sabina Pryce-Jones <sabinapj@gmail.com>=0AT
o: Daniel Weseman <danweseman@yahoo.com>=0ASent: Sat, September 11, 2010 10
:25:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: south taxi way=0A=0A=0ADan=0AI agree with your app
roach. Let's wait to see what the engineer says. Then we =0Ashould probably
move forward as lot owners with the DEP on permitting driveway =0Aand util
ity easement through the wetlands. -I also have a friend who use to work
=0Aat DEP who I will consult with.-=0AThanks=0ASabina=0A=0ASent from my i
Phone=0A=0AOn Sep 11, 2010, at 8:45 AM, Daniel Weseman <danweseman@yahoo.co
m> wrote:=0A=0A=0APat ,To secure the easment for T&G I need to know where o
ur taxiway will =0Aconnect. The two factors that determine this are=0A>-1
. The decision on the "wetland area"=0A>Per your email we will know more ab
out this Monday. =0A>-2.-The power pole at the corner of Airpark east a
nd south.=0A>-- Ed Witt is handeling this and will let us know what Cla
y electric says. Per =0A>the current "aggrement "with Bob Weseman and Buzz
Glade we need to stick to our =0A>origanal plan. the power pole can be move
d 10ft south or-removed and run =0A>underground from the next pole north
(best option in my opinin)=0A>---Also i think it may be best if-The
lot owners with the wetlands (Rachel and I =0A>and Sabina) file fill permi
ts for 30ft wide access and utilites. This was the =0A>easy part of my last
dealing with DEP. The area is tiny and unless alot has =0A>changed will no
t need to be mitigated. If we do it as a group .... they will see =0A>this
as a development!!! =0A>=0A>=0A>-So I think to get the easment correct we
need to--wait for information from =0A>Clay Electric and the Enviormen
tal Enginer this week. I will then work with Bob =0A>and Buzz and we will m
ove foward.=0A>=0A>Thanks =0A>Dan Weseman=0A>danweseman@yahoo.com=0A>www.fl
ycleanex.com=0A>www.fly5thbearing.com =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A______________
__________________=0AFrom: "pdleeinfla@aol.com" <pdleeinfla@aol.com>=0A>To:
1captdon1@att.net; jaxvanderbilt@comcast.net; weseman@cproducts.net; =0A>S
abinapj@gmail.com; danweseman@yahoo.com; davedollarhide@msn.com; =0A>ewitts
r@mecojax.com=0A>Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 9:24:33 PM=0A>Subject: Update
s=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Ladies and gents,- Thanks for the input.- I will t
ell Sarah to make changes to =0A>match bylaws and to clarify-common areas
to be taxiway easements where =0A>necessary.- We have been talking to SJ
RWMD about our wetland issue.- We all knew =0A>it was an issue, but the q
uestion was basically: how do we address it?- I talked =0A>to a wetland c
onsultant tonight that is going to give us advice as to how to =0A>proceed
and what our options really are.- Steve Hakala is a friend of Dave =0A>Va
nderbilt and was very helpful over the phone. His cost is $150.- He will
look =0A>at the area next Monday and tell us the best way to proceed.-=0A
>--- -Over the phone he said there are several options.- The firs
t is to avoid =0A>the wetland.- We can do that by doing an S around the m
arked wet area.- I went =0A>down today and marked off a taxiway that goes
north around the wetland (in the =0A>Weseman's property) and joins the roa
d about 60 feet north of where we would =0A>like to join.-I marked the en
trance with PVC pipes with blue tops.- Take a look =0A>and let me know wh
at you think.-If we do this option, the power pole will not =0A>have to b
e moved but we will need a few feet from Buzz Glade to make the turn. =0A>W
e would also have to get an OK from Dan and Rachel.- (Maybe trade some cl
earing =0A>for more easement).- The second option is to go the permitting
route.- That =0A>would involve some cost and probably some mitigation (m
ore cost).- DEP and the =0A>Corp of Engineers will -get involved.- Ne
ither are good as far as I can =0A>tell.--The last option is to have a
wetlands guy say that where we want to taxi =0A>is not a wetland. If he can
convince the state, then we can do what we want.- =0A>All of these optio
ns need to start with someone that knows what they are talking =0A>about. S
o I recommend we wait and listen to a pro tell us what we should do.- =0A
>That will happen Monday=0A>--- In the mean time the loggers are clea
ring and raking.-The look from the air =0A>is really great.=0A>=0A>Pat=0A
=============== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 09/10/10 |
Must have gone belly up. Used to be _www.rivethead-aero.com_
(http://www.rivethead-aero.com) . That produces nothing now. Google search for Full
Throttle Concepts produced nothing of value.
Ask the question on VAF Forum.
Stan Sutterfield
_www.rv-8a.net_ (http://www.rv-8a.net)
Does anyone know the contact info for Full throttle concepts,inc? They
sell the
silver bullet.
Thanks,
Jim Stone
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