Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:37 AM - toe in / toe out (Frazier, Vincent A)
2. 08:40 AM - Re: toe-in/toe-out (Steve)
3. 07:28 PM - Re: toe-in/toe-out (Vern Little)
4. 08:35 PM - Re: toe-in/toe-out (Steve Irving)
5. 10:27 PM - Re: toe-in/toe-out (Vern Little)
Message 1
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| Subject: | toe in / toe out |
SNIP I will set it to zero in the unloaded condition. SNIP
Be careful. I initially set the alignment w/ no weight on the tires on my Rocket
and wore out a set of tires in <100 hours. (I've got F1 gear but the concept
is the same). After wearing out the 1st set of tires, I went back and completely
reset the alignments on the finished plane, loaded with fuel and pilot weight,
and with the tail on the ground.
I'd argue that the plane will spend very little time with the tail off the ground
and you want the best alignment at slow, tail down speeds.
http://www.vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm for more, mind-numbing details.
To be clear here, I'm not saying John is wrong. No, not in the least. It's his
baby. I'm saying that for me, the align then fly process proved unacceptable.
For those who care and haven't quit reading yet, consider that the camber and toe
on this type of gear varies considerably with tail up/tail down and with varying
aircraft weights, and with braking action.
Here's a test for those already flying, park your Rocket on a shiny smooth (painted
is good) concrete hangar floor. If your tires squeak when you roll the plane
forward, then your alignment is not optimal. The squeaking is caused by
the toe. As you move the plane, the tires must compensate for the misaligned
track... and they squeak. The good news is that these planes are pussycats even
with dreadful alignment like I had.
So, follow John's advice, but also consider what you are doing and why.
YMMV
Vince
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: toe-in/toe-out |
Hey John,
I thought you wanted to set it to zero with the plane in a level flying atti
tude and weight on the gear. Not in an un-loaded condition as in the previou
s post.
I got 4 steel plates approximately 12" square 2 for the left an two for the r
ight. Put grease between them, rolled the mains up on them, leveled the airp
lane then set the toe in.
We have done this on several airplanes and none of them have tire where issu
es.
Steve
On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:54 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the quick reply. I will set it to zero in the unloaded conditi
on. I also presume that the flats on the gear legs should be set at 90 degr
ees to the firewall.
> Vern
>
> From: John Harmon
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:21 PM
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
>
> Yep
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 15, 2010, at 6:07 PM, "Larry Schneider" <lschneider39@cox.net> wrot
e:
>
>> And would that be set in a level flying attitude John? like I would do. :
-)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John Harmon
>> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 5:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
>>
>> Set it at 0
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:49 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wro
te:
>>
>>> What's the group feeling for the amount of toe-in/toe-out required for a
n HR-II? I have specs for the F1, but nothing for the HR-II. I've lurked o
n the F1 forum and there's some debate on this.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Vern
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>> href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List"'>http://www.ma
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> Release Date: 09/15/10 18:34:00
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: toe-in/toe-out |
Hmmm. John is the design authority, but I've read Vince's posts on the
F1 Forum that uses the greasy-plate technique. However, it's my
recollection that the geometry of the gear is different on the HR-II and
the F1, so I'm reluctant to blindly follow along the F1 recommendations.
Until this is resolved, I'm not drilling the feet!
Vern
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Hey John,
I thought you wanted to set it to zero with the plane in a level flying
attitude and weight on the gear. Not in an un-loaded condition as in the
previous post.
I got 4 steel plates approximately 12" square 2 for the left an two for
the right. Put grease between them, rolled the mains up on them, leveled
the airplane then set the toe in.
We have done this on several airplanes and none of them have tire where
issues.
Steve
On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:54 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply. I will set it to zero in the unloaded
condition. I also presume that the flats on the gear legs should be set
at 90 degrees to the firewall.
Vern
From: John Harmon
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:21 PM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Yep
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 15, 2010, at 6:07 PM, "Larry Schneider" <lschneider39@cox.net>
wrote:
And would that be set in a level flying attitude John? like I would
do. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: John Harmon
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Set it at 0
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:49 PM, "Vern Little"
<sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
What's the group feeling for the amount of toe-in/toe-out
required for an HR-II? I have specs for the F1, but nothing for the
HR-II. I've lurked on the F1 forum and there's some debate on this.
Thanks, Vern
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Release Date: 09/15/10 18:34:00
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06:34:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: toe-in/toe-out |
Vern,
I guess I miss understood. I thought you had already drilled the feet and w
ere doing a final alignment. The un-loaded condition is correct for the mou
nting of the feet, that will get you close. Usually the gear will require a
n adjustment once the plane is complete. That's where the greased plates co
me in. That process will help you take final measurements and shim the axle
s to achieve the zero toe in.
Steve
--- On Thu, 9/16/10, Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
From: Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
=0A=0A =0AHmmm. John is the design authority, but I've =0Aread Vince'
s posts on the F1 Forum that uses the greasy-plate technique.- =0AHowever
, it's my recollection that the geometry of the gear is different on the
=0AHR-II and the F1, so I'm reluctant to blindly follow along the F1 =0Arec
ommendations.- Until this is resolved, I'm not drilling the =0Afeet!=0A
-=0AVern=0A=0A
=0A=0AFrom: Steve =0ASent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:36 AM=0ATo: rocke
t-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out=0A
=0AHey John,-=0AI thought you wanted to set it to zero with the plane in
a level flying =0Aattitude and weight on the gear. Not in an un-loaded cond
ition as in the =0Aprevious post.=0AI got 4 steel plates approximately 12"
square 2 for the left an two for the =0Aright. Put grease between them, rol
led the mains up on them, leveled the =0Aairplane then set the toe in.=0AWe
have done this on several airplanes and none of them have tire where =0Ais
sues.=0ASteve=0A
On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:54 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> =0Awr
ote:
=0A=0A=0A =0A Thanks for the quick reply.- I will set it =0A to zero i
n the unloaded condition.- I also presume that the flats on the =0A gear
legs should be set at 90 degrees to the firewall.=0A Vern=0A =0A
=0A =0A From: John Harmon =0A Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:21 P
M=0A To: rocket-list@matronics.com =0A =0A Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe
-in/toe-out=0A
=0A Yep
Sent from my iPhone=0A
On Sep 15, 2010, at 6:07 PM, "Larry Schneider" <lschneider39@cox.net> =0A
wrote:
=0A =0A =0A =0A And would that be set in a level flying =0A atti
tude John? like I would do. :-)=0A -=0A ----- Original Message ----
- =0A =0A From: =0A John Harmon =0A =0A To: rocket-l
ist@matronics.com =0A =0A Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 =0A
5:06 PM=0A Subject: Re: Rocket-List: =0A toe-in/toe-out=0A
=0A Set it at 0
Sent from my iPhone=0A
On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:49 PM, "Vern Little" <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> =0A
wrote:
=0A =0A =0A =0A What's the group feeling for the am
ount of =0A toe-in/toe-out required for an HR-II?- I have specs fo
r the F1, but =0A nothing for the HR-II.- I've lurked on the F1 fo
rum and there's =0A some debate on this.=0A -=0A Tha
nks, Vern=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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| Subject: | Re: toe-in/toe-out |
OK, I get it. zero toe-in when drilling the feet (I'm leveling the
engine mount on the bench and will mount the feet at 90 degrees to
this). Adjusting loaded toe-in comes later.
Thanks guys!
From: Steve Irving
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Vern,
I guess I miss understood. I thought you had already drilled the
feet and were doing a final alignment. The un-loaded condition is
correct for the mounting of the feet, that will get you close. Usually
the gear will require an adjustment once the plane is complete. That's
where the greased plates come in. That process will help you take final
measurements and shim the axles to achieve the zero toe in.
Steve
--- On Thu, 9/16/10, Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
From: Vern Little <sprocket@vx-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 6:33 PM
Hmmm. John is the design authority, but I've read Vince's
posts on the F1 Forum that uses the greasy-plate technique. However,
it's my recollection that the geometry of the gear is different on the
HR-II and the F1, so I'm reluctant to blindly follow along the F1
recommendations. Until this is resolved, I'm not drilling the feet!
Vern
From: Steve
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:36 AM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Hey John,
I thought you wanted to set it to zero with the plane in a level
flying attitude and weight on the gear. Not in an un-loaded condition as
in the previous post.
I got 4 steel plates approximately 12" square 2 for the left an
two for the right. Put grease between them, rolled the mains up on them,
leveled the airplane then set the toe in.
We have done this on several airplanes and none of them have
tire where issues.
Steve
On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:54 PM, "Vern Little"
<sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply. I will set it to zero in the
unloaded condition. I also presume that the flats on the gear legs
should be set at 90 degrees to the firewall.
Vern
From: John Harmon
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:21 PM
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Yep
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 15, 2010, at 6:07 PM, "Larry Schneider"
<lschneider39@cox.net> wrote:
And would that be set in a level flying attitude John? like
I would do. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: John Harmon
To: rocket-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: toe-in/toe-out
Set it at 0
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 15, 2010, at 4:49 PM, "Vern Little"
<sprocket@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
What's the group feeling for the amount of
toe-in/toe-out required for an HR-II? I have specs for the F1, but
nothing for the HR-II. I've lurked on the F1 forum and there's some
debate on this.
Thanks, Vern
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