Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:20 AM - Re: Starting problem (iiNet)
2. 05:52 AM - Re: Starting problem (Jones15183@aol.com)
3. 06:06 AM - Re: Starting problem (Bruce Topp)
4. 09:55 AM - Re: Starting problem (Rob Ray)
5. 12:56 PM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 (James Baldwin)
6. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 (Rob Ray)
7. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 (Lee Logan)
8. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 (Rob Ray)
9. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 (Vern Little)
10. 04:46 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jim Stone)
11. 04:51 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jim Stone)
12. 04:58 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jim Stone)
13. 05:02 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jim Stone)
14. 05:35 PM - Re: Starting problem (Rob Ray)
15. 06:13 PM - Re: Starting problem (Vern Little)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
It's not uncommon to change mixture during start on a fuel injected Lycoming
(I have a C4B5 F1 Rocket as well) Typically:
1. Full throttle + Mixture full rich
2. Electric fuel pump on for 4-5 seconds, then off
3. Throttle back to only 1/4" + Mixture full lean
6. Crank the engine
7. When it fires, Mixture full rich immediately
Priming like this saturates the head intakes (cos the injectors are ALL squi
rting continuously into each cylinder head i.e. fuel/air only goes into a cy
linder when the intake valve opens), then idle cut off stops all fuel flow. A
s the rich mixture leans down to optimum value during cranking (which doesn'
t take long) the engines fires ... reintroduce fuel and it runs. Super relia
ble, just prime less when hot starting.
Kind Regards, Stu
Sent from my iPhone
> On 9 Aug 2015, at 7:42 am, <Jones15183@aol.com> <Jones15183@aol.com> wrote
:
>
> Hi Jim, former F! Rocker owner. Can you explain your complete starting pr
ocedure. I had Electroair and an Impulse mag. I never had a hot or cold st
art problem. You talk about getting the mixture right. Shouldn"t be foolin
g with mixture control in process of eng. starting. Let me hear from you on
you about your complete starting process. Billy Waters McGregor,tx.
>
> In a message dated 8/8/2015 10:29:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time, voltar@vx
-aviation.com writes:
> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this d
ocument: http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%
20Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>
> Vern
> HR-II C-GVRL
>
> =====
> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
troAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avia
tion plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tarting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery volt
age down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volt
s, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spar
k other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ater.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>>
>
>
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> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matron
==========================
=========
> ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> =========================
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
The procedure stated below is identical to mine, with one exception, ( I
also had a fuel injected eng.) I never changed the mixture setting during
startup, always mixture full off after priming. if not it was subject to
flooding..and always cranked very quickly. Only exception, sometimes I used
full throttle on startup. Billy
In a message dated 8/9/2015 5:20:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au writes:
It's not uncommon to change mixture during start on a fuel injected
Lycoming (I have a C4B5 F1 Rocket as well) Typically:
1. Full throttle + Mixture full rich
2. Electric fuel pump on for 4-5 seconds, then off
3. Throttle back to only 1/4" + Mixture full lean
6. Crank the engine
7. When it fires, Mixture full rich immediately
Priming like this saturates the head intakes (cos the injectors are ALL
squirting continuously into each cylinder head i.e. fuel/air only goes into a
cylinder when the intake valve opens), then idle cut off stops all fuel
flow. As the rich mixture leans down to optimum value during cranking (which
doesn't take long) the engines fires ... reintroduce fuel and it runs. Super
reliable, just prime less when hot starting.
Kind Regards, Stu
Sent from my iPhone
On 9 Aug 2015, at 7:42 am, <_Jones15183@aol.com_
(mailto:Jones15183@aol.com) > <_Jones15183@aol.com_ (mailto:Jones15183@aol.com) > wrote:
Hi Jim, former F! Rocker owner. Can you explain your complete starting
procedure. I had Electroair and an Impulse mag. I never had a hot or cold
start problem. You talk about getting the mixture right. Shouldn"t be
fooling with mixture control in process of eng. starting. Let me hear from you
on you about your complete starting process. Billy Waters McGregor,tx.
In a message dated 8/8/2015 10:29:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_voltar@vx-aviation.com_ (mailto:voltar@vx-aviation.com) writes:
You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this
document:
http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%20Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
Vern
HR-II C-GVRL
======
Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <_jrstone54@att.net_
(mailto:jrstone54@att.net) > wrote:
I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all
aviation plugs.
I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like
a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery
voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11
volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of
no spark other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the
batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge
and try later.
I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slick
and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
Does anyone have a proven solution?
TIA,
Jim Stone
_Louisville Kentucky_ (x-apple-data-detectors://0/1)
HR 11
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Starting problem |
Jim,
I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto
plugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same
setup on another home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir
that the system will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless
of what I have been told vs what you have been told, I have no issues
with cold starts. In fact, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am
having issues with hot starts but it is related to fuel vaporization
after the airplane sits for a short period of time after a flight and
the engine gets heat soaked. I have a plenum over the engine vs the
baffling which I believe is contributing to my problem.
The only suggestions I have:
1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are
starting to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than
it should be?
3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that
is causing more power draw than required?
Hope this helps. Good luck
Bruce
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and
all aviation plugs.
I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised
me to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your
engine".
I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me
that the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what
seems like a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls
the battery voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller
falls below 11 volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have
no indication of no spark other than the obvious no start result. So
with some luck the batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture
right, if not, recharge and try later.
I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from
Slick and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price
to pay for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
Does anyone have a proven solution?
TIA,
Jim Stone
Louisville Kentucky <x-apple-data-detectors://0/1>
HR 11
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Jim,
My C4B5 powered HR2 was setup identical to yours. My Concorde battery was in
the baggage cpt for CG and lagged starting very similarly to yours. I switc
hed plugs to Denso L14U plugs and used my Elextroair on the lowers and chang
ed to Champion 37BY plugs on the Mag. I switched to an odyssey PC925 and pro
blem solved.
Hope this helps...
Your mileage may vary..:)
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 08:06, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto pl
ugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same setup on a
nother home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir that the system
will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless of what I have been
told vs what you have been told, I have no issues with cold starts. In fac
t, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am having issues with hot starts b
ut it is related to fuel vaporization after the airplane sits for a short pe
riod of time after a flight and the engine gets heat soaked. I have a plenu
m over the engine vs the baffling which I believe is contributing to my prob
lem.
>
> The only suggestions I have:
> 1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are st
arting to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
> 2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than it s
hould be?
> 3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that is
causing more power draw than required?
>
> Hope this helps. Good luck
>
> Bruce
>
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
>
> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elect
roAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all aviat
ion plugs.
> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me t
o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my st
arting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that t
he system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a l
ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery voltag
e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volts,
it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spark o
ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries hold
up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try late
r.
> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slick
and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> Does anyone have a proven solution?
> TIA,
> Jim Stone
> Louisville Kentucky
> HR 11
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 |
If you install the P model of the EMag you will have no problem with the
ignition element of starting your IO540. My O360 starts instantly once I
installed the PMag. Additionally, you'll get a self contained generator
which will supply voltage to the ignition if the ship power fails. I saw
the 6 cylinder version of the PMag at Oshkosh and Brad said they are close
to a ship date. JBB
On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 12:03 AM, Rocket-List Digest Server <
rocket-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 15-08-08&Archive=Rocket
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 15-08-08&Archive=Rocket
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Rocket-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/08/15: 4
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 06:27 PM - Starting problem (Jim Stone)
> 2. 07:09 PM - Re: Starting problem (Scot Stambaugh)
> 3. 08:29 PM - Re: Starting problem (Vern Little)
> 4. 08:42 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jones15183@aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:27:58 PM PST US
> From: Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net>
> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
>
> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
> Electro
> Air Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all
> aviatio
> n plugs.
> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
> to
> "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
> star
> ting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
> th
> e system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
> l
> ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery
> voltag
> e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11
> volts,
> it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no
> spark o
> ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries
> hold
> up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try
> late
> r.
> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slick
> a
> nd a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
> for
> better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> Does anyone have a proven solution?
> TIA,
> Jim Stone
> Louisville Kentucky
> HR 11
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:09:50 PM PST US
> From: Scot Stambaugh <f1rocket@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
> I have a dual Lightspeed system and have never had any problem.
> Electronic Ignition for Aircraft
>
> usSavier entered five races, won them all and had no failures. ELECTRONIC I
> GNITION FOR AIRCRAFT By Klaus Savier E... |
>
>
> I also use the B&C Lightweight starter that doesn't seem to cause a signifi
> cant voltage drop in the system.
>
> B & C LIGHTWEIGHT STARTERS FOR LYCOMING from Aircraft Spruce
>
> Viewed: CONT. 0-200 HEAT BOX CESSNA 150 STYLE HEAT BOX $173.95 |
>
>
> And just to make the issue more challenging, my engine is a high-compressi
> on model with Lycon's 10.5:1 pistons.
> The only time it doesn't start by the 3 rotation is if I don't prime for a
> full 11 seconds, which is when the fuel pressure stabilizes.
> Hope this helps.
> Scot Stambaugh=C2-
>
>
> On Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:32 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net>
> wro
> te:
>
>
> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Electr
> oAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all aviat
> ion plugs.
> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me t
> o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my sta
> rting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. =C2-ElectroAir told me
> that the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems
> like a long time before it produces a spark. =C2-This cranking pulls the
> battery voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls
> below 11 volts, it no longer produces a spark. =C2-Of course I have no in
> dication of no spark other than the obvious no start result. =C2-So with
> some luck the batteries hold up long enough tilI =C2-I get the mixture ri
> ght, if not, recharge and try later.
> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slick
> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. =C2-Seems like a big price to
> pay for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> Does anyone have a proven solution?
> TIA,
> Jim Stone
> Louisville Kentucky=C2-
> HR 11
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:29:39 PM PST US
> From: Vern Little <voltar@vx-aviation.com>
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this
> doc
> ument:
> http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%20
> Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>
> Vern
> HR-II C-GVRL
>
> ====
> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>
> > On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> > I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
> Elect
> roAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all
> aviat
> ion plugs.
> > I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised
> me t
> o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> > I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
> st
> arting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me
> that t
> he system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like
> a l
> ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery
> voltag
> e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11
> volts,
> it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no
> spark o
> ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries
> hold
> up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try
> late
> r.
> > I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from
> Slick
> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
> f
> or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> > Does anyone have a proven solution?
> > TIA,
> > Jim Stone
> > Louisville Kentucky
> > HR 11
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 3D===============3
> D==============
> ==============
> 3D===============3
> D==============
> ==============
> 3D===============3
> D==============
> ==============
> 3D===============3
> D==============
> ==============
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:42:38 PM PST US
> From: Jones15183@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
> Hi Jim, former F! Rocker owner. Can you explain your complete starting
> procedure. I had Electroair and an Impulse mag. I never had a hot or
> cold
> start problem. You talk about getting the mixture right. Shouldn"t be
> fooling with mixture control in process of eng. starting. Let me hear
> from you
>
> on you about your complete starting process. Billy Waters McGregor,tx.
>
>
> In a message dated 8/8/2015 10:29:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> voltar@vx-aviation.com writes:
>
> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this
> document:
>
> http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%20Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>
>
> Vern
> HR-II C-GVRL
>
> =====
>
> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <_jrstone54@att.net_
> (mailto:jrstone54@att.net) > wrote:
>
>
> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
> ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all
> aviation plugs.
> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
> to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
> starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me
> that
> the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like
> a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery
> voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below
> 11
> volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no
> spark other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the
> batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not,
> recharge and
>
> try later.
> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slick
> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
> for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> Does anyone have a proven solution?
> TIA,
> Jim Stone
> _Louisville Kentucky_ (x-apple-data-detectors://0/1)
> HR 11
>
>
> D===========================================
> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>
>
> D=======================
> ===================
> //forums.matronics.com
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D=====================================
> 3D=====
>
>
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 |
Hey JBB,
I wasn't aware that Brad at EMAG Air had broken the code for an IO540 PMag.(
I had a PMag on my RVX post HR2, great product)
The IO540 has a different accessory case gear drive for the mag that require
s all electronic ignition systems (so far) to use a crank sensor mounted on t
he prop flange. The normal PMag setup is an accessory case gear drive instal
lation which until reading your email wasn't in existence.
If this is accurate it's great news indeed.
V/R
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 14:56, James Baldwin <1james.baldwin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you install the P model of the EMag you will have no problem with the i
gnition element of starting your IO540. My O360 starts instantly once I ins
talled the PMag. Additionally, you'll get a self contained generator which w
ill supply voltage to the ignition if the ship power fails. I saw the 6 cyl
inder version of the PMag at Oshkosh and Brad said they are close to a ship d
ate. JBB
>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 12:03 AM, Rocket-List Digest Server <rocket-list@m
atronics.com> wrote:
>> *
>>
>> ========================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ========================
>>
>> Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>> of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=h
tml&Chapter 15-08-08&Archive=Rocket
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=t
xt&Chapter 15-08-08&Archive=Rocket
>>
>>
>> ======================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ======================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Rocket-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/08/15: 4
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 06:27 PM - Starting problem (Jim Stone)
>> 2. 07:09 PM - Re: Starting problem (Scot Stambaugh)
>> 3. 08:29 PM - Re: Starting problem (Vern Little)
>> 4. 08:42 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jones15183@aol.com)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 06:27:58 PM PST US
>> From: Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net>
>> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
tro
>> Air Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avia
tio
>> n plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
to
>> "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tar
>> ting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
th
>> e system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
l
>> ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery vol
tag
>> e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 vol
ts,
>> it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spa
rk o
>> ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old
>> up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ate
>> r.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k a
>> nd a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or
>> better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 07:09:50 PM PST US
>> From: Scot Stambaugh <f1rocket@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>> I have a dual Lightspeed system and have never had any problem.
>> Electronic Ignition for Aircraft
>>
>> | =C2- |
>> | =C2- | | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- |
>> | Electronic Ignition for AircraftSport Aviation, February 1995 In 1994 K
la
>> usSavier entered five races, won them all and had no failures. ELECTRONIC
I
>> GNITION FOR AIRCRAFT By Klaus Savier E... |
>> | |
>> | View on www.lightspeedengine... | Preview by Yahoo |
>> | |
>> | =C2- |
>>
>>
>> I also use the B&C Lightweight starter that doesn't seem to cause a signi
fi
>> cant voltage drop in the system.
>>
>> B & C LIGHTWEIGHT STARTERS FOR LYCOMING from Aircraft Spruce
>>
>> | =C2- |
>> | =C2- | | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- |
>> | B & C LIGHTWEIGHT STARTERS FOR LYCOMING from...Other Customers Have Als
o
>> Viewed: CONT. 0-200 HEAT BOX CESSNA 150 STYLE HEAT BOX $173.95 |
>> | |
>> | View on www.aircraftspruce.com | Preview by Yahoo |
>> | |
>> | =C2- |
>>
>>
>> And just to make the issue more challenging, my engine is a high-compres
si
>> on model with Lycon's 10.5:1 pistons.
>> The only time it doesn't start by the 3 rotation is if I don't prime for a
>> full 11 seconds, which is when the fuel pressure stabilizes.
>> Hope this helps.
>> Scot Stambaugh=C2-
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:32 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> w
ro
>> te:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
tr
>> oAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avi
at
>> ion plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
t
>> o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
ta
>> rting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. =C2-ElectroAir told m
e
>> that the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seem
s
>> like a long time before it produces a spark. =C2-This cranking pulls th
e
>> battery voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller fall
s
>> below 11 volts, it no longer produces a spark. =C2-Of course I have no i
n
>> dication of no spark other than the obvious no start result. =C2-So wit
h
>> some luck the batteries hold up long enough tilI =C2-I get the mixture r
i
>> ght, if not, recharge and try later.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k
>> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. =C2-Seems like a big price t
o
>> pay for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky=C2-
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 3 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:29:39 PM PST US
>> From: Vern Little <voltar@vx-aviation.com>
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this d
oc
>> ument: http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft
%20
>> Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>>
>> Vern
>> HR-II C-GVRL
>>
>> ====
>> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>>
>> > On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> > I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and El
ect
>> roAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all av
iat
>> ion plugs.
>> > I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e t
>> o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> > I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
st
>> arting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me th
at t
>> he system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like
a l
>> ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery vol
tag
>> e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 vol
ts,
>> it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spa
rk o
>> ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old
>> up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ate
>> r.
>> > I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sl
ick
>> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pa
y f
>> or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> > Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> > TIA,
>> > Jim Stone
>> > Louisville Kentucky
>> > HR 11
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> >
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:42:38 PM PST US
>> From: Jones15183@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>> Hi Jim, former F! Rocker owner. Can you explain your complete starting
>> procedure. I had Electroair and an Impulse mag. I never had a hot or c
old
>> start problem. You talk about getting the mixture right. Shouldn"t be
>> fooling with mixture control in process of eng. starting. Let me hear f
rom you
>>
>> on you about your complete starting process. Billy Waters McGregor,tx.
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/8/2015 10:29:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> voltar@vx-aviation.com writes:
>>
>> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this
>> document:
>> http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%20Elec
trical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>>
>>
>> Vern
>> HR-II C-GVRL
>>
>> =====
>>
>> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <_jrstone54@att.net_
>> (mailto:jrstone54@att.net) > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
>> ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and a
ll
>> aviation plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e
>> to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
>> starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me t
hat
>> the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems li
ke
>> a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery
>> voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below
11
>> volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of n
o
>> spark other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the
>> batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, rech
arge and
>>
>> try later.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sli
ck
>> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pa
y
>> for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> _Louisville Kentucky_ (x-apple-data-detectors://0/1)
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>> D========================
===================
>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>>
>>
>> D========================
>> ===================
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D========================
====================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D========================
=============
>> 3D=====
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> et-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Rocket-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> ==========
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 |
Rob: Yes to your inquiry, the problem is that they've been working on
their 6-cylinder version for 6-7 years. It has been promised for delivery
many times in the past, but the "signs" are that this time it may actually
happen. Those showing an early interest were asked for down payments about
two months ago. You might want to get in line soon if you want one.
Lee...
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 |
Thanks Lee, I sold my HR2 4 years ago.
I do miss it sometimes but not like I miss the F16...
Cya!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 15:38, Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rob: Yes to your inquiry, the problem is that they've been working on the
ir 6-cylinder version for 6-7 years. It has been promised for delivery many
times in the past, but the "signs" are that this time it may actually happe
n. Those showing an early interest were asked for down payments about two m
onths ago. You might want to get in line soon if you want one.
>
>
> Lee...
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 08/08/15 |
.... So the solution is an unproven device that is not yet available? It sou
nds to me that this is a voltage droop problem which would also affect a P-M
AG type ignition.
In my opinion, the simplest way is to fix the voltage droop: new main batter
y, better wiring or by using an ignition holdover battery (aka essential bus
). The purpose of the new battery is to spin the starter at a high enough r
pm with minimal voltage droop. The purpose of the holdover battery is to pr
event low voltage kickback and to provide temporary ignition power in the ev
ent of a main bus failure.
=====
Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 12:56 PM, James Baldwin <1james.baldwin@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>
> If you install the P model of the EMag you will have no problem with the i
gnition element of starting your IO540. My O360 starts instantly once I ins
talled the PMag. Additionally, you'll get a self contained generator which w
ill supply voltage to the ignition if the ship power fails. I saw the 6 cyl
inder version of the PMag at Oshkosh and Brad said they are close to a ship d
ate. JBB
>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 12:03 AM, Rocket-List Digest Server <rocket-list@m
atronics.com> wrote:
>> *
>>
>> ========================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ========================
>>
>> Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>> of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=h
tml&Chapter 15-08-08&Archive=Rocket
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=t
xt&Chapter 15-08-08&Archive=Rocket
>>
>>
>> ======================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ======================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Rocket-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Sat 08/08/15: 4
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 06:27 PM - Starting problem (Jim Stone)
>> 2. 07:09 PM - Re: Starting problem (Scot Stambaugh)
>> 3. 08:29 PM - Re: Starting problem (Vern Little)
>> 4. 08:42 PM - Re: Starting problem (Jones15183@aol.com)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 06:27:58 PM PST US
>> From: Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net>
>> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
tro
>> Air Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avia
tio
>> n plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
to
>> "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tar
>> ting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
th
>> e system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
l
>> ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery vol
tag
>> e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 vol
ts,
>> it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spa
rk o
>> ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old
>> up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ate
>> r.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k a
>> nd a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or
>> better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 07:09:50 PM PST US
>> From: Scot Stambaugh <f1rocket@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>> I have a dual Lightspeed system and have never had any problem.
>> Electronic Ignition for Aircraft
>>
>> | =C2- |
>> | =C2- | | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- |
>> | Electronic Ignition for AircraftSport Aviation, February 1995 In 1994 K
la
>> usSavier entered five races, won them all and had no failures. ELECTRONIC
I
>> GNITION FOR AIRCRAFT By Klaus Savier E... |
>> | |
>> | View on www.lightspeedengine... | Preview by Yahoo |
>> | |
>> | =C2- |
>>
>>
>> I also use the B&C Lightweight starter that doesn't seem to cause a signi
fi
>> cant voltage drop in the system.
>>
>> B & C LIGHTWEIGHT STARTERS FOR LYCOMING from Aircraft Spruce
>>
>> | =C2- |
>> | =C2- | | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- | =C2- |
>> | B & C LIGHTWEIGHT STARTERS FOR LYCOMING from...Other Customers Have Als
o
>> Viewed: CONT. 0-200 HEAT BOX CESSNA 150 STYLE HEAT BOX $173.95 |
>> | |
>> | View on www.aircraftspruce.com | Preview by Yahoo |
>> | |
>> | =C2- |
>>
>>
>> And just to make the issue more challenging, my engine is a high-compres
si
>> on model with Lycon's 10.5:1 pistons.
>> The only time it doesn't start by the 3 rotation is if I don't prime for a
>> full 11 seconds, which is when the fuel pressure stabilizes.
>> Hope this helps.
>> Scot Stambaugh=C2-
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, August 8, 2015 7:32 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> w
ro
>> te:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
tr
>> oAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avi
at
>> ion plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
t
>> o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
ta
>> rting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. =C2-ElectroAir told m
e
>> that the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seem
s
>> like a long time before it produces a spark. =C2-This cranking pulls th
e
>> battery voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller fall
s
>> below 11 volts, it no longer produces a spark. =C2-Of course I have no i
n
>> dication of no spark other than the obvious no start result. =C2-So wit
h
>> some luck the batteries hold up long enough tilI =C2-I get the mixture r
i
>> ght, if not, recharge and try later.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k
>> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. =C2-Seems like a big price t
o
>> pay for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky=C2-
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 3 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:29:39 PM PST US
>> From: Vern Little <voltar@vx-aviation.com>
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this d
oc
>> ument: http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft
%20
>> Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>>
>> Vern
>> HR-II C-GVRL
>>
>> ====
>> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>>
>> > On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> > I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and El
ect
>> roAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all av
iat
>> ion plugs.
>> > I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e t
>> o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> > I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
st
>> arting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me th
at t
>> he system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like
a l
>> ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery vol
tag
>> e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 vol
ts,
>> it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spa
rk o
>> ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old
>> up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ate
>> r.
>> > I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sl
ick
>> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pa
y f
>> or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> > Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> > TIA,
>> > Jim Stone
>> > Louisville Kentucky
>> > HR 11
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
>> >
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4 ____________________________
_________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:42:38 PM PST US
>> From: Jones15183@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>> Hi Jim, former F! Rocker owner. Can you explain your complete starting
>> procedure. I had Electroair and an Impulse mag. I never had a hot or c
old
>> start problem. You talk about getting the mixture right. Shouldn"t be
>> fooling with mixture control in process of eng. starting. Let me hear f
rom you
>>
>> on you about your complete starting process. Billy Waters McGregor,tx.
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/8/2015 10:29:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> voltar@vx-aviation.com writes:
>>
>> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this
>> document:
>> http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%20Elec
trical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>>
>>
>> Vern
>> HR-II C-GVRL
>>
>> =====
>>
>> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <_jrstone54@att.net_
>> (mailto:jrstone54@att.net) > wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
>> ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and a
ll
>> aviation plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e
>> to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
>> starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me t
hat
>> the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems li
ke
>> a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery
>> voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below
11
>> volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of n
o
>> spark other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the
>> batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, rech
arge and
>>
>> try later.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sli
ck
>> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pa
y
>> for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> _Louisville Kentucky_ (x-apple-data-detectors://0/1)
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>> D========================
===================
>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>>
>>
>> D========================
>> ===================
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D========================
====================
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D========================
=============
>> 3D=====
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> et-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Rocket-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> ==========
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Hi Vern,
The battery idea would help when my batts got low, what 12 volt battery did y
ou use?
What charges the battery used to power the EIS?
Thanks for your help,
Jim Stone
> On Aug 8, 2015, at 11:29 PM, Vern Little <voltar@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
>
> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this d
ocument: http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%
20Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>
> Vern
> HR-II C-GVRL
>
> =====
> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
troAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avia
tion plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tarting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery volt
age down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volt
s, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spar
k other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ater.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Hi Stu,
I will try your exact starting procedure, it is similar to what I am using.
I suspect I am flooding the engine and with late spark introduction, it get
s worse with the increase in cranking seconds.
Thank you for your response,
Jim Stone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 6:20 AM, iiNet <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au> wrote:
>
> It's not uncommon to change mixture during start on a fuel injected Lycomi
ng (I have a C4B5 F1 Rocket as well) Typically:
>
> 1. Full throttle + Mixture full rich
> 2. Electric fuel pump on for 4-5 seconds, then off
> 3. Throttle back to only 1/4" + Mixture full lean
> 6. Crank the engine
> 7. When it fires, Mixture full rich immediately
>
> Priming like this saturates the head intakes (cos the injectors are ALL sq
uirting continuously into each cylinder head i.e. fuel/air only goes into a c
ylinder when the intake valve opens), then idle cut off stops all fuel flow.
As the rich mixture leans down to optimum value during cranking (which does
n't take long) the engines fires ... reintroduce fuel and it runs. Super rel
iable, just prime less when hot starting.
>
> Kind Regards, Stu
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 9 Aug 2015, at 7:42 am, <Jones15183@aol.com> <Jones15183@aol.com> wrot
e:
>>
>> Hi Jim, former F! Rocker owner. Can you explain your complete starting p
rocedure. I had Electroair and an Impulse mag. I never had a hot or cold s
tart problem. You talk about getting the mixture right. Shouldn"t be fooli
ng with mixture control in process of eng. starting. Let me hear from you o
n you about your complete starting process. Billy Waters McGregor,tx.
>>
>> In a message dated 8/8/2015 10:29:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time, voltar@v
x-aviation.com writes:
>> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this d
ocument: http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%
20Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>>
>> Vern
>> HR-II C-GVRL
>>
>> =====
>> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Ele
ctroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avi
ation plugs.
>>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tarting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery volt
age down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volt
s, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spar
k other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ater.
>>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sli
ck and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>>> TIA,
>>> Jim Stone
>>> Louisville Kentucky
>>> HR 11
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List">http://www.matro
n=========================
>> ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =========================
>> tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
>> =========================
>>
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
>> =========================
=========
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========================
=========
>>
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Hi Bruce,
I started my trouble shooting with two new Odyssey P650 batteries.
Starter is a B&C starter with 650 hours and many more starts. Wiring is goo
d as evidenced by good cranking rpm and endurance.
How many seconds of cranking does it take your engine to start?
I watched the power light on my EIS controller as I cranked, it appears as t
hough there is a steady green light until it produces a spark on start, I wi
ll verify this tomorrow with a call to ElectroAir. Do you know of anyone fi
nding relief from the slick start?
Thanks for your help,
Jim Stone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto pl
ugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same setup on a
nother home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir that the system
will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless of what I have been
told vs what you have been told, I have no issues with cold starts. In fac
t, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am having issues with hot starts b
ut it is related to fuel vaporization after the airplane sits for a short pe
riod of time after a flight and the engine gets heat soaked. I have a plenu
m over the engine vs the baffling which I believe is contributing to my prob
lem.
>
> The only suggestions I have:
> 1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are st
arting to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
> 2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than it s
hould be?
> 3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that is
causing more power draw than required?
>
> Hope this helps. Good luck
>
> Bruce
>
> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
>
> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elect
roAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all aviat
ion plugs.
> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me t
o "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my st
arting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that t
he system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a l
ong time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery voltag
e down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volts,
it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spark o
ther than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries hold
up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try late
r.
> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slick
and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> Does anyone have a proven solution?
> TIA,
> Jim Stone
> Louisville Kentucky
> HR 11
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Hey Smokey,
I'll keep the plug info and idea in mind unless you realized a significant i
mprovement in your starting when you changed them out. Do you know of anyon
e using the slick start on the Rocket?
Thanks for your Help,
Jim Stone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Rob Ray <smokyray@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jim,
> My C4B5 powered HR2 was setup identical to yours. My Concorde battery was i
n the baggage cpt for CG and lagged starting very similarly to yours. I swit
ched plugs to Denso L14U plugs and used my Elextroair on the lowers and chan
ged to Champion 37BY plugs on the Mag. I switched to an odyssey PC925 and pr
oblem solved.
> Hope this helps...
> Your mileage may vary..:)
> Smokey
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 08:06, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto p
lugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same setup on a
nother home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir that the system
will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless of what I have been
told vs what you have been told, I have no issues with cold starts. In fac
t, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am having issues with hot starts b
ut it is related to fuel vaporization after the airplane sits for a short pe
riod of time after a flight and the engine gets heat soaked. I have a plenu
m over the engine vs the baffling which I believe is contributing to my prob
lem.
>>
>> The only suggestions I have:
>> 1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are s
tarting to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
>> 2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than it
should be?
>> 3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that i
s causing more power draw than required?
>>
>> Hope this helps. Good luck
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-se
rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
>> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>
>>
>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Elec
troAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avia
tion plugs.
>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tarting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery volt
age down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volt
s, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spar
k other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ater.
>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay f
or better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>> TIA,
>> Jim Stone
>> Louisville Kentucky
>> HR 11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Hi Jim,
I have used the slick start on an RV10 with a C4B5 I delivered several year
s ago. As I remember it worked well using the standard: Cold start 5 seconds
of boost both mags on mixture lean throttle cracked. Mixture rich at initia
l start indication.
Hot: same except boost on entire time and during ground ops.
New hotter plugs really helped my Rockets hot start success along with the b
oost pump on and going to a skytech hi power starter and PC925.
My friend "VB"still has the RV10 with slick start and can be reached for inf
o at vdbod@hotmail.com
V/R
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 19:01, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Smokey,
> I'll keep the plug info and idea in mind unless you realized a significant
improvement in your starting when you changed them out. Do you know of any
one using the slick start on the Rocket?
> Thanks for your Help,
> Jim Stone
>
>
>
>
>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 12:55 PM, Rob Ray <smokyray@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jim,
>> My C4B5 powered HR2 was setup identical to yours. My Concorde battery was
in the baggage cpt for CG and lagged starting very similarly to yours. I sw
itched plugs to Denso L14U plugs and used my Elextroair on the lowers and ch
anged to Champion 37BY plugs on the Mag. I switched to an odyssey PC925 and p
roblem solved.
>> Hope this helps...
>> Your mileage may vary..:)
>> Smokey
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 08:06, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto p
lugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same setup on a
nother home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir that the system
will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless of what I have been
told vs what you have been told, I have no issues with cold starts. In fac
t, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am having issues with hot starts b
ut it is related to fuel vaporization after the airplane sits for a short pe
riod of time after a flight and the engine gets heat soaked. I have a plenu
m over the engine vs the baffling which I believe is contributing to my prob
lem.
>>>
>>> The only suggestions I have:
>>> 1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are s
tarting to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
>>> 2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than i
t should be?
>>> 3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that i
s causing more power draw than required?
>>>
>>> Hope this helps. Good luck
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
>>> To: rocket-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Ele
ctroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avi
ation plugs.
>>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tarting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery volt
age down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volt
s, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spar
k other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ater.
>>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sli
ck and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>>> TIA,
>>> Jim Stone
>>> Louisville Kentucky
>>> HR 11
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Battery part number is in the schematic. Charging current is through the hi
gh power schottky diode also shown. Both the battery and diode are stock di
gi-key.
Vern
=====
Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 4:46 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Vern,
> The battery idea would help when my batts got low, what 12 volt battery di
d you use?
> What charges the battery used to power the EIS?
> Thanks for your help,
> Jim Stone
>
>
>
>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 11:29 PM, Vern Little <voltar@vx-aviation.com> wrote:
>>
>> You could add a holdover battery, as illustrated on the IGN page of this d
ocument: http://54.162.78.90/redmine/attachments/download/94/VFR%20Aircraft%
20Electrical%20System%20Rev%205.pdf
>>
>> Vern
>> HR-II C-GVRL
>>
>> =====
>> Vernon R. Little | President, Vx Aviation
>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Jim Stone <jrstone54@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
>>> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and Ele
ctroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and all avi
ation plugs.
>>> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised m
e to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
>>> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my s
tarting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me that
the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seems like a
long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the battery volt
age down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller falls below 11 volt
s, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no indication of no spar
k other than the obvious no start result. So with some luck the batteries h
old up long enough tilI I get the mixture right, if not, recharge and try l
ater.
>>> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Sli
ck and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
>>> Does anyone have a proven solution?
>>> TIA,
>>> Jim Stone
>>> Louisville Kentucky
>>> HR 11
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>
>
>
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>
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