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1. 02:32 PM - Re: Starting problem (Bruce Topp)
2. 02:46 PM - Re: Starting problem (Ed Gilroy)
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| Subject: | Starting problem |
Jim,
My apologies for the late reply.
How many seconds of cranking does it take your engine to start? Here is
the typical cold start for me. It typically takes two attempts. The
first time I crank for approx. 5-6 secs. I stop and prime a little more
and it starts in the next 3-4 secs. I could probably prime more the
first time and it would start but I am nervous on flooding the engine.
Do you know of anyone finding relief from the slick start? I do not.
When my engine was being built, the engine builder asked if I wanted a
=9Cshower of sparks=9D setup. I did not want the extra cost
and hardware installed. I reached out to ElectroAir and discussed the
advantages/problems with starts using the electronic ignition. The
advantage was suppose to be better starts with a better spark. The
disadvantage was that a good battery is needed for the electronic ign to
work proper during the start cycle. And. The engine will not
start with a dead battery as I have no impulse coupler on the Mag. I
have to keep the Mag off during start up to avoid kick back because
there is no impulse coupler to retard timing on the Mag during start up.
Once engine fires I turn the Mag on.
Have you made any progress on figuring out your problem?
Regards,
Bruce
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stonee
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 6:58 PMt
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
Hi Bruce,
I started my trouble shooting with two new Odyssey P650 batteries.
Starter is a B&C starter with 650 hours and many more starts. Wiring is
good as evidenced by good cranking rpm and endurance.
How many seconds of cranking does it take your engine to start?
I watched the power light on my EIS controller as I cranked, it appears
as though there is a steady green light until it produces a spark on
start, I will verify this tomorrow with a call to ElectroAir. Do you
know of anyone finding relief from the slick start?
Thanks for your help,
Jim Stone
On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
Jim,
I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto
plugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same
setup on another home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir
that the system will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless
of what I have been told vs what you have been told, I have no issues
with cold starts. In fact, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am
having issues with hot starts but it is related to fuel vaporization
after the airplane sits for a short period of time after a flight and
the engine gets heat soaked. I have a plenum over the engine vs the
baffling which I believe is contributing to my problem.
The only suggestions I have:
1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are
starting to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than it
should be?
3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that
is causing more power draw than required?
Hope this helps. Good luck
Bruce
From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Stone
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
Subject: Rocket-List: Starting problem
I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and
all aviation plugs.
I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised
me to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your
engine".
I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me
that the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what
seems like a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls
the battery voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller
falls below 11 volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have
no indication of no spark other than the obvious no start result. So
with some luck the batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture
right, if not, recharge and try later.
I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from
Slick and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price
to pay for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
Does anyone have a proven solution?
TIA,
Jim Stone
Louisville Kentucky <x-apple-data-detectors://0/1>
HR 11
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
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t-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Starting problem |
Since you are "IO", have you looked into the new iStart product from the
Skytec guys?
Saw it at KOSH and it seems to put some computing power behind mixture and
spark control at start of IO engines. If forget if it does sixes yet, but
it is available for 4's for sure. Currently only available experimental,
but that shouldn't be an issue :-)
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
> Jim,
>
>
> My apologies for the late reply.
>
>
> *How many seconds of cranking does it take your engine to start?* Here
> is the typical cold start for me. It typically takes two attempts. The
> first time I crank for approx. 5-6 secs. I stop and prime a little more
> and it starts in the next 3-4 secs. I could probably prime more the firs
t
> time and it would start but I am nervous on flooding the engine.
>
>
> *Do you know of anyone finding relief from the slick start? *I do not.
> When my engine was being built, the engine builder asked if I wanted a
> =9Cshower of sparks=9D setup. I did not want the extra cost
and hardware
> installed. I reached out to ElectroAir and discussed the
> advantages/problems with starts using the electronic ignition. The
> advantage was suppose to be better starts with a better spark. The
> disadvantage was that a good battery is needed for the electronic ign to
> work proper during the start cycle. And. The engine will not st
art with a
> dead battery as I have no impulse coupler on the Mag. I have to keep the
> Mag off during start up to avoid kick back because there is no impulse
> coupler to retard timing on the Mag during start up. Once engine fires I
> turn the Mag on.
>
>
> Have you made any progress on figuring out your problem?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> *From:* owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Stonee
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 09, 2015 6:58 PMt
> *To:* rocket-list@matronics.coms
> *Subject:* Re: Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I started my trouble shooting with two new Odyssey P650 batteries.
> Starter is a B&C starter with 650 hours and many more starts. Wiring is
> good as evidenced by good cranking rpm and endurance.
>
> How many seconds of cranking does it take your engine to start?
>
> I watched the power light on my EIS controller as I cranked, it appears a
s
> though there is a steady green light until it produces a spark on start,
I
> will verify this tomorrow with a call to ElectroAir. Do you know of anyo
ne
> finding relief from the slick start?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Jim Stone
>
>
> On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Bruce Topp <bdtopp@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
>
> I have the same setup as you do on a IO 540 D4A5 except I am using auto
> plugs on the lower plugs with the ElectroAir. I also had this same setup
> on another home built with no issues. I was told by ElectroAir that the
> system will produce spark down to approx. 8 volts. Regardless of what I
> have been told vs what you have been told, I have no issues with cold
> starts. In fact, my cold starts are quick and easy. I am having issues
> with hot starts but it is related to fuel vaporization after the airplane
> sits for a short period of time after a flight and the engine gets heat
> soaked. I have a plenum over the engine vs the baffling which I believe
is
> contributing to my problem.
>
>
> The only suggestions I have:
>
> 1. Maybe battery is starting to show it=99s age and you are st
arting
> to get voltage drops below what the EIS can handle?
>
> 2. Maybe starting is showing its age and drawing more power than it
> should be?
>
> 3. Are all connections/crimps in starting circuit ok? Maybe that is
> causing more power draw than required?
>
>
> Hope this helps. Good luck
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> *From:* owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jim Stone
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 08, 2015 8:28 PM
> *To:* rocket-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Rocket-List: Starting problem
>
>
> I'm looking for ideas to improve my start up both cold and hot.
> I have an IO 540 C4 B5 with a non impulse mag on the upper plugs and
> ElectroAir Electronic ignition (latest version on the lower plugs), and a
ll
> aviation plugs.
> I removed the slick impulse Mag a year ago after the Slick Rep advised me
> to "get it off that engine before it comes apart and stops your engine".
> I have been starting with just the ElectroAir and realized it is not my
> starting technique as much as it is a lack of spark. ElectroAir told me
> that the system has to measure a pretty fast cranking speed for what seem
s
> like a long time before it produces a spark. This cranking pulls the
> battery voltage down and if the voltage to the ElectroAir controller fall
s
> below 11 volts, it no longer produces a spark. Of course I have no
> indication of no spark other than the obvious no start result. So with
> some luck the batteries hold up long enough tilI I get the mixture right
,
> if not, recharge and try later.
> I'm considering the slick start but it requires a different mag from Slic
k
> and a coupler which all together cost 2k.. Seems like a big price to pay
> for better start performance, but I'm considering it.
> Does anyone have a proven solution?
> TIA,
> Jim Stone
> Louisville Kentucky
> HR 11
>
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List <http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Rocket-List>*
>
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