Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:46 AM - Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox (Rob Stapleton)
2. 12:55 AM - Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox (Rob Stapleton)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox (David Key)
4. 06:26 AM - Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox (george may)
5. 06:11 PM - Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox (Guy Buchanan)
6. 09:05 PM - Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox (mikePuyallup)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox |
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" <foto@alaska.net>
I am not using a 582 in a Kitfox but I would venture to say that the 582 is
a very resiliant engine.
I think a 300 hour is a more of a recommendation and it depends if these are
all cruise hours or hard climb hours.
The hardest thing on an engine is letting it sit and then running it hard. I
have seen 582s with 1000+ hours on them that didn't need a re-build yet.
The trick, fly often, watch your EGT temps (1050-1150F)!
RS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
mikePuyallup
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "mikePuyallup"
<mikePuyallup@hotmail.com>
I have been thinking of buying a Kitfox or Avid and can't decide if buying a
plane with a 912 is worth the extra cost.
Does anyone know what is the difference in engine failure rates? (Everyone
who tells me that two strokes are bad seems to be quoting motorcycle engine
stories.)
Is there a gearbox /engine (blue/grey head?) combination to avoid?
What about tbo's. Do 582's make it to 300 hours?
Any help is appreciated
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62651#62651
Message 2
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| Subject: | 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox |
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Rob Stapleton" <foto@alaska.net>
I would agree with every point except the statement that you will have to
rebuild five time in 1500 hours. Perhaps two times would be a more accurate
statement.
RS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Kuehn
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Jack Kuehn
<jkuehn@mountaintime.myrf.net>
The 912 is a far superior engine, both in terms of reliability and
cost. By the time you get 1500 hours on a 582 you will have rebuilt it
5 times, and burned much more fuel than a 912. The 912 has a 1500 hour
TBO and if you compare the cost of the two engines over 1500 hours you
will find that the 912 is less expensive. The 582 may be reliable as
long as you keep up on maintenance, but the 912 is surely a more
reliable engine. I have one with 100 hours and it has earned my trust.
Maintenance is easy and not expensive. You also get much more power
than with any two stroke. Your Kitfox will perform far better with a 912.
Jack
Sky Ranger N233GH
mikePuyallup wrote:
>--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "mikePuyallup"
<mikePuyallup@hotmail.com>
>
>I have been thinking of buying a Kitfox or Avid and can't decide if buying
a plane with a 912 is worth the extra cost.
>
>Does anyone know what is the difference in engine failure rates? (Everyone
who tells me that two strokes are bad seems to be quoting motorcycle engine
stories.)
>
>Is there a gearbox /engine (blue/grey head?) combination to avoid?
>
>What about tbo's. Do 582's make it to 300 hours?
>
>
>Any help is appreciated
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62651#62651
>
>
>
>
--
Jack Kuehn
5565 Brady Lane
Lolo, MT 59847
(406) 273-6801
(406) 546-1086 (cell)
(406) 273-2563 (fax)
Message 3
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| Subject: | 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox |
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "David Key" <dhkey@msn.com>
I've had a 503 and a 582 and now a 912 none of them quit on me. I love the
912 the 81 hp is great, it's worth it to pay more. You get to fly at least
twice as long. And if you get the 912 you don't have to fly wondering what
it would be like if I did what I should of done. I do wonder what the 912 S
would of been like ;-)
Message 4
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| Subject: | 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox |
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "george may" <gfmjr_20@hotmail.com>
I think first you want to insure you have a match of engine and plane. The
earlier Kitfox models I,II and III were really meant to be powered by the 2
stroke 532, 582 with the later models powered by the 582 or 912.
I have a Kitfox III with a 582 (older version-non bluehead) with 400 hours
on the plane. I do believe in maintenance and rebuids as specified by
Rotax, so I did have it rebuilt at 300 hours. The engine has been
completely trouble free for 400 hours. It does require you to pay attention
to EGTs whille flying and every 50-100 hours to decarbon the pistion/rings.
The 582 will require more attention than the 912 and in a longer term cost
evaluation will probably cost a little more, however the money is spread out
over time.
I currently have a 912uls on another plane that I just finished building
so no long term report yet. The reason I choose the 912uls is that it is
just about bullet proof. I've been to a number of seminars by Phil Lockwood
and was very impressed with the abuse the engine can withstand.
George May
>From: "mikePuyallup" <mikePuyallup@hotmail.com>
>To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:02:06 -0700
>
>--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "mikePuyallup"
><mikePuyallup@hotmail.com>
>
>I have been thinking of buying a Kitfox or Avid and can't decide if buying
>a plane with a 912 is worth the extra cost.
>
>Does anyone know what is the difference in engine failure rates? (Everyone
>who tells me that two strokes are bad seems to be quoting motorcycle engine
>stories.)
>
>Is there a gearbox /engine (blue/grey head?) combination to avoid?
>
>What about tbo's. Do 582's make it to 300 hours?
>
>
>Any help is appreciated
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62651#62651
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Searchsay hello!
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox |
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:02 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote:
>I have been thinking of buying a Kitfox or Avid and can't decide if buying
>a plane with a 912 is worth the extra cost.
You can do a direct cost / benefit using info from the web and here. One
item to consider, though, is that you'll easily get the extra $6k back on
resale. 582's don't sell well. So I guess that solves the cost / benefit
question right off the bat!
>Does anyone know what is the difference in engine failure
>rates? (Everyone who tells me that two strokes are bad seems to be
>quoting motorcycle engine stories.)
From what I can tell, 582's require a lot more attention. You have to
watch EGT's, CHT's, and water temperatures diligently. (I use a GRT EIS.)
You have to de-carbon. And, of course, you have to keep up with the oil.
(This is probably the largest PITA, since literally no FBO's sell 2-stroke
oil. If I go on a long cross-country, not only do I have to carry a case of
oil, I'll have to have some shipped to strategic locations to get back!)
912's appear even more bullet-proof than Lycomings, et. al. once set up
correctly. All you have to do is watch max RPM.
>Is there a gearbox /engine (blue/grey head?) combination to avoid?
I have a grey head and watch water temperatures carefully. I understand
that using silica-free coolant solves the problem with the grey-head's
rotary valve seals, as well. Make sure you get the "newer" crank, though,
as a replacement is about $800 in parts alone.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 582 vs 912 Safety in a Ktifox |
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "mikePuyallup" <mikePuyallup@hotmail.com>
Wow, thanks for the replies so fast.
I am going to buy in the winter or spring, not build, so the differnece in cost
seems to be worth it.
It seems that catastrophic engine failure is really not that big a worry, it is
more of an issue of constant rebuilding and poor fuel burn.
Any props to avoid? Someone told me not to use IVO's in the rain due to abbrasion(I
live near Seattle)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62937#62937
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