Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (Thom Riddle)
2. 06:55 AM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (NYTerminat@aol.com)
3. 08:04 AM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (Jack Kuehn)
4. 08:44 AM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (sonny)
5. 09:00 AM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (Gary)
6. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (Thilo Kind)
7. 02:36 PM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (Dave)
8. 04:20 PM - Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact (Roger Lee)
9. 07:13 PM - Re: Dynamic prop balance and Tips (JetPilot)
10. 07:21 PM - Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503 or 582 ???? (JetPilot)
11. 07:42 PM - Re: Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503 or 582 ???? (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
12. 08:53 PM - Re: Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503 or 582 ???? (knowvne@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
Roger,
The maintenance documentation you reference says that when using 100LL
for more than 30% of the time that the oil changes should be increased
in frequency from 100 hours (no lead fuel) to 50 hours. It also states
that mineral oil or semi-synthetic motorcycle oil should be used when
running 100LL. Full synthetic motorcycle oil should be used only with
no lead fuel.
Although it is rare for us to use 100LL in our 912UL we must when we
are flying x-country. We change our oil (Pennzoil Motorcycle
semi-synthetic) and filter (Rotax) every 50 hours because we like to do
a good engine inspection at that frequency anyway.
Thom in Buffalo
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
Thom,
I have a 912uls and I am supposed to use premium unleaded, I was wondering
on a cross country flight with an airport that has 100LL and 87 MoGas would it
be alright to mix the two together and have enough octane but reduce the lead
level? There seems to be few airports that have 91MoGas.
Bob Spudis
N701ZX/ CH-701/ 912S
In a message dated 2/21/2007 7:26:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: Thom Riddle <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
Roger,
The maintenance documentation you reference says that when using 100LL
for more than 30% of the time that the oil changes should be increased
in frequency from 100 hours (no lead fuel) to 50 hours. It also states
that mineral oil or semi-synthetic motorcycle oil should be used when
running 100LL. Full synthetic motorcycle oil should be used only with
no lead fuel.
Although it is rare for us to use 100LL in our 912UL we must when we
are flying x-country. We change our oil (Pennzoil Motorcycle
semi-synthetic) and filter (Rotax) every 50 hours because we like to do
a good engine inspection at that frequency anyway.
Thom in Buffalo
FAA Powerplant Mechanic
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
The problem I ran into on a cross country from Western Montana to
Minnesota was that even if an airport had mogas, they are not allowed to
pump it into an airplane, regardless of what the engine requirements
are, because of insurance company rules. If you carry a gas can, you
can buy the gas and pour it yourself, but this is not so simple when
your plane is already full of stuff. I mixed auto gas and 100LL with no
problem, and I use synthetic fuel, but I changed the plugs and the oil
when I returned, which happened to be the time to change oil anyway.
The plugs showed plenty of lead on them, so there may be issues with
this over hundreds of hours of use. I also used the non-toxic lead
scavenger additive (forgot the name!). Just as an aside note, I use a
1/2 dose of Sta-bil in the auto gas in the winter when I fly less. This
makes for much quicker and smoother starting in cold weather, though I
keep the plane in a heated hangar.
Jack
NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
> Thom,
>
> I have a 912uls and I am supposed to use premium unleaded, I was
> wondering on a cross country flight with an airport that has 100LL and
> 87 MoGas would it be alright to mix the two together and have enough
> octane but reduce the lead level? There seems to be few airports that
> have 91MoGas.
>
> Bob Spudis
> N701ZX/ CH-701/ 912S
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/21/2007 7:26:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
>
> <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> Roger,
>
> The maintenance documentation you reference says that when using
> 100LL
> for more than 30% of the time that the oil changes should be
> increased
> in frequency from 100 hours (no lead fuel) to 50 hours. It also
> states
> that mineral oil or semi-synthetic motorcycle oil should be used when
> running 100LL. Full synthetic motorcycle oil should be used only with
> no lead fuel.
>
> Although it is rare for us to use 100LL in our 912UL we must when we
> are flying x-country. We change our oil (Pennzoil Motorcycle
> semi-synthetic) and filter (Rotax) every 50 hours because we like
> to do
> a good engine inspection at that frequency anyway.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> FAA Powerplant = Use lities Day --> - NEW MATRONICS
> WEB FORUMS -
> bsp; --> =====================
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the
> web, free AOL Mail and much more.
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
--
Jack Kuehn
5565 Brady Lane
Lolo, MT 59847
(406) 273-6801
(406) 546-1086 (cell)
(406) 273-2563 (fax)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
If I run my 912UL with 100LL, which is rare, I add Decalin. It's available from
Aircraft Spruce for $20. It's safe to carry in the cockpit, too.
Regards,
Sonny W.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Kuehn <jkuehn@mountaintime.myrf.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:04:01 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact
The problem I ran into on a cross country from Western Montana to
Minnesota was that even if an airport had mogas, they are not allowed to
pump it into an airplane, regardless of what the engine requirements
are, because of insurance company rules. If you carry a gas can, you
can buy the gas and pour it yourself, but this is not so simple when
your plane is already full of stuff. I mixed auto gas and 100LL with no
problem, and I use synthetic fuel, but I changed the plugs and the oil
when I returned, which happened to be the time to change oil anyway.
The plugs showed plenty of lead on them, so there may be issues with
this over hundreds of hours of use. I also used the non-toxic lead
scavenger additive (forgot the name!). Just as an aside note, I use a
1/2 dose of Sta-bil in the auto gas in the winter when I fly less. This
makes for much quicker and smoother starting in cold weather, though I
keep the plane in a heated hangar.
Jack
NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
> Thom,
>
> I have a 912uls and I am supposed to use premium unleaded, I was
> wondering on a cross country flight with an airport that has 100LL and
> 87 MoGas would it be alright to mix the two together and have enough
> octane but reduce the lead level? There seems to be few airports that
> have 91MoGas.
>
> Bob Spudis
> N701ZX/ CH-701/ 912S
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/21/2007 7:26:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jtriddle@adelphia.net writes:
>
> <jtriddle@adelphia.net>
>
> Roger,
>
> The maintenance documentation you reference says that when using
> 100LL
> for more than 30% of the time that the oil changes should be
> increased
> in frequency from 100 hours (no lead fuel) to 50 hours. It also
> states
> that mineral oil or semi-synthetic motorcycle oil should be used when
> running 100LL. Full synthetic motorcycle oil should be used only with
> no lead fuel.
>
> Although it is rare for us to use 100LL in our 912UL we must when we
> are flying x-country. We change our oil (Pennzoil Motorcycle
> semi-synthetic) and filter (Rotax) every 50 hours because we like
> to do
> a good engine inspection at that frequency anyway.
>
> Thom in Buffalo
> FAA Powerplant = Use lities Day --> - NEW MATRONICS
> WEB FORUMS -
> bsp; --> =====================
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the
> web, free AOL Mail and much more.
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
--
Jack Kuehn
5565 Brady Lane
Lolo, MT 59847
(406) 273-6801
(406) 546-1086 (cell)
(406) 273-2563 (fax)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
Never heard of that one. I fly in Montana, Washington, Idaho, Wyoming,
Dakotas, etc. There are several airports that have Mogas, and you pump
it into your airplane. Arlington Washington has a nice credit card pump
with mogas that gets a lot of use during the EAA fly in and year round.
Gary
Jack Kuehn wrote:
> <jkuehn@mountaintime.myrf.net>
>
> The problem I ran into on a cross country from Western Montana to
> Minnesota was that even if an airport had mogas, they are not allowed
> to pump it into an airplane, regardless of what the engine
> requirements are, because of insurance company rules. If you carry a
> gas can, you can buy the gas and pour it yourself, but this is not so
> simple when your plane is already full of stuff. I mixed auto gas and
> 100LL with no problem, and I use synthetic fuel, but I changed the
> plugs and the oil when I returned, which happened to be the time to
> change oil anyway. The plugs showed plenty of lead on them, so there
> may be issues with this over hundreds of hours of use. I also used
> the non-toxic lead scavenger additive (forgot the name!). Just as an
> aside note, I use a 1/2 dose of Sta-bil in the auto gas in the winter
> when I fly less. This makes for much quicker and smoother starting in
> cold weather, though I keep the plane in a heated hangar.
> Jack
>
> NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Thom,
>>
>> I have a 912uls and I am supposed to use premium unleaded, I was
>> wondering on a cross country flight with an airport that has 100LL
>> and 87 MoGas would it be alright to mix the two together and have
>> enough octane but reduce the lead level? There seems to be few
>> airports that have 91MoGas.
>>
>> Bob Spudis
>> N701ZX/ CH-701/ 912S
>>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
Hi Roger,
I meant the seals, hoses, etc. of the fuel system from the tanks to the
engine. I agree, that the engine itself should not have any trouble.
Did Kodiak say anything about the ratio of the blend with 100 LL?
Regards
Thilo Kind
Regarding
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact
>
> Hi Thilo,
>
> Eric Tucker, of Kodiak/Rotax, stated that there is nothing in a Rotax for
> the alcohol to be an issue. No seals or parts that should get damaged.
> Other engines yes, but not a Rotax because of the way it is Mfg. It will
> only cost you some BTU's on the power side. He recommended that we use
> either a blend of 100LL with 91 oct. or 100LL above 8k' as a precaution to
> vapor lock.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'108#96108
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
MSDS for Decalin...I would not carry in my cockpit area the baggage lockers
will work though.
http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1662.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of sonny
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact
If I run my 912UL with 100LL, which is rare, I add Decalin.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol/methanol. Myth or fact |
Hi Guys,
Decalin is a safer, less corrosive and less volitile product to use over TCP.
As far as ethanol on hoses and the such. Most of us around the country drive cars,
motorcycles, ATV's, snowmobiles ect.. with ethanol/metanol and have no ill
effects on hoses and seals. Nothing special about our hoses in the Rotax or our
cars/motorcycles. When was the last time any of us had to overhaul our hoses
and seals in our vehicles.
Eric Tucker stated that they want oil changed every 50 hrs. with 91 Oct. and 25
hrs with 100LL. He also stated that they want plugs changed every 100 hrs and
not at the 200 hr mark with 91 oct. and even less time with 100LL. Don't go by
the book on these two items. I think there is a bulletin out on this, but I
may be wrong here. I will research it and get back to you.These are the blood
and heart of your engine why take a chance of long term issues or and type of
an engine issue for the sake of $20-$30 every few months. Just the fact they we
are on this forum asking questions means we care about our engines and our hides.
You can use synthetic oil up to that 30%, but should be semi-synthetic if any more
than that. If you know you have cross country's coming up then use semi-synthetic
at the oil change. You can mix 100LL with 91 Oct. without any issues.
I believe Eric said that he would like a 50/50 blend above 8k'.
I am sure you could blend 87 with 100LL, but you would have no way of knowing what
the out come octane would be. I would shy away from this blend not being able
to really know. Then when you add fuel again it would change the octane. Better
to stick with 91 and/or 100LL.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'575#96575
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dynamic prop balance and Tips |
Roger Lee wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> 4. You 912 was set up to fly for up to 30 minutes at 75% power if you lose oil
pressure. Yes, btter to land, but not at the expense of crashing. Yes the engine
will need some work if you go for the 75% at 30 min. .
>
>
I am willing to bet that it would run only 30 seconds after losing oil pressure
[Wink] Im betting you meant "if you lose the coolant ...
"
You talked about a minimum of vibration from 4800 to 5200 RPM. It makes perfect
sense that you would get excessive wear running more than 5200 RPM, but What
happens if you run 4500 RPM ? Mine engine and plane are very happy crusing at
4500 RPM, any problem with this ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'597#96597
Message 10
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| Subject: | Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503 or 582 ???? |
Which is the best, most reliable, and longest lasting 2 stroke Rotax, the 447,
503, or the 582 ???
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'599#96599
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503 or 582 |
????
Any of em are great engines
Nothing last forever if you use it, however there all great engines and
reliable as the mechanics ability to keep it maintained properly.
the 447 is 40 HP and burns less fuel than the 503 @ 50 HP but the 503 burns
less fuel than the 582 @ 65HP
I would think more of How much power do you really need and want to feed
would be a better question
that's just how I think
Ellery
do not archive
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503 or 582 |
????
I've been told the 503 is the most reliable of the 2 strokes......This
of course is purely second hand info..... I personally would be
interested in the thoughts of others on this as the 503 motor is the
one I've been considering when I finally decide on a airplane.....
thanks
Mark Vaughn
-----Original Message-----
From: orcabonita@hotmail.com
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Which is the best 2 stroke Rotax 447, 503
or 582 ????
<orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Which is the best, most reliable, and longest lasting 2 stroke Rotax,
the 447,
503, or the 582 ???
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as
you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'599#96599
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