Today's Message Index:
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1. 08:17 PM - Re: 912UL Lost oil??? (Roger Lee)
2. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: 912UL Lost oil??? (JAMES BEARD)
3. 09:01 PM - Re: 912UL Lost oil??? (Don G)
4. 10:26 PM - Re: 912UL Lost oil??? (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL Lost oil??? |
Hi Don,
I would recommend that everyone who owns a Rotax 912 take a Rotax class or two.
They are very informative and not all internal combustions engines are the same.
Rotax in many ways is not like a car. I had to change my own ideas after taking
my classes because the differences would have made me do the wrong thing
or not be able to understand the Rotax 912 for the proper maintenance.
Rotax engines do sometimes put out more oil pressure than a car. Like I said if
you hand tighten it and it is enough then ok, but some Rotax pressures are in
the 75 psi range and hand tight is not always enough. In my Rotax classes they
recommend to use a wrench and give it a slight turn if it does leak oil. Some
Rotax engines only run 36-55 psi and hand tight is fine. My Rotax has to have
a wrench or it will leak, I learned the hard way.
The gooseneck you describe sounds like an after thought change to have the hose
have a more sweeping angle. The 2 main tube fittings coming out of the tank are
straight.
You can drain the oil from the tank and change the filter without introducing air,
but not from where you pulled that plug or line. Just make sure you get the
lines and oil cooler primed and flushed as the maint. manual states.
The magnetic plug is located on the right side of the gearbox as you face the engine.
It is about half way down. It is a larger flat bolt that takes a #40 Torx.
This bolt has 200 in/lbs of torque on it. Rotax offers a couple of ideas to
remove it, but there is an easy way to do this. Get your #40 Torx on a 3/8"
drive 6" extention. Tap it deep into the #40 torx screw so as not to strip anything.
Then have someone put a fair amount of tension on the bolt like they are
trying to unscrew it, probably won't move. Then you take an aluminum rod (soft)
about 8" long and set it on the edge of the bolt. Now take a hammer and tap
it "Smartly" once maybe twice and the screw will be loose. It takes 200 in/lbs
to retorque it back in.
Get everything back together with the proper amount of oil after you check everything
for tightness and run it up on the ground again. If the oil pressure is
good after a 20 min. ground run and no leaks are apparent try a flight again.
What kind of oil are you using, some are not good. There are a couple of recommendations,
but try and get some Mobile One Racing 4XT. It is full synthetic. This
is a Rotax recommended oil. Some oils foam to badly to use in the Rotax engine.
Once this is done let us know how things turned out. Actually after things are
tightened I think your problem will be gone, but let's see.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118535#118535
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL Lost oil??? |
Wow! Roger you"re the man!! Good input, even for us analog
pteradactiles remaining on this planet.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Lee<mailto:ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
To:
rotaxengines-list@matronics.com<mailto:rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912UL Lost oil???
<ssadiver1@yahoo.com<mailto:ssadiver1@yahoo.com>>
Hi Don,
I would recommend that everyone who owns a Rotax 912 take a Rotax
class or two. They are very informative and not all internal combustions
engines are the same. Rotax in many ways is not like a car. I had to
change my own ideas after taking my classes because the differences
would have made me do the wrong thing or not be able to understand the
Rotax 912 for the proper maintenance.
Rotax engines do sometimes put out more oil pressure than a car. Like
I said if you hand tighten it and it is enough then ok, but some Rotax
pressures are in the 75 psi range and hand tight is not always enough.
In my Rotax classes they recommend to use a wrench and give it a slight
turn if it does leak oil. Some Rotax engines only run 36-55 psi and hand
tight is fine. My Rotax has to have a wrench or it will leak, I learned
the hard way.
The gooseneck you describe sounds like an after thought change to have
the hose have a more sweeping angle. The 2 main tube fittings coming out
of the tank are straight.
You can drain the oil from the tank and change the filter without
introducing air, but not from where you pulled that plug or line. Just
make sure you get the lines and oil cooler primed and flushed as the
maint. manual states.
The magnetic plug is located on the right side of the gearbox as you
face the engine. It is about half way down. It is a larger flat bolt
that takes a #40 Torx. This bolt has 200 in/lbs of torque on it. Rotax
offers a couple of ideas to remove it, but there is an easy way to do
this. Get your #40 Torx on a 3/8" drive 6" extention. Tap it deep into
the #40 torx screw so as not to strip anything. Then have someone put a
fair amount of tension on the bolt like they are trying to unscrew it,
probably won't move. Then you take an aluminum rod (soft) about 8" long
and set it on the edge of the bolt. Now take a hammer and tap it
"Smartly" once maybe twice and the screw will be loose. It takes 200
in/lbs to retorque it back in.
Get everything back together with the proper amount of oil after you
check everything for tightness and run it up on the ground again. If the
oil pressure is good after a 20 min. ground run and no leaks are
apparent try a flight again.
What kind of oil are you using, some are not good. There are a couple
of recommendations, but try and get some Mobile One Racing 4XT. It is
full synthetic. This is a Rotax recommended oil. Some oils foam to badly
to use in the Rotax engine.
Once this is done let us know how things turned out. Actually after
things are tightened I think your problem will be gone, but let's see.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118535#118535<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118535#118535>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List<http://www.matronics
com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL Lost oil??? |
Thanks again Roger.
I called Rotax Dealer Ronnie Smith today to order a new suction line fitting for
that tank since it does seep just a bit after I shut off the engine. He Asked..."Is
it on a KitFox?"...when I replied yes he told me alot of KitFox's have
had that suction tube cut and shortened to clear the cowl, because the stock
one is too tall. This sounds right because the one I have with the weld job on
it is still very close to touching the cowl inside. I will have to take it off
and try and have it Tig welded to clear up that seep, and assure me that it
is not sucking air.
As far as Oil...Unknown brand when I bought it, and I changed it after this incedent
, used Valvoline dura-blend semi-synthetic as I found it on the list in
the new maintanance manual I downloaded from the Rotax site, and it was in stock
at the hardware store on my way to the airport.
Purged the lines tonite and flew it around the patch 4 or 5 times...watching the
oil temp...and getting in some landing practice so everyone wont laugh at me
too badly. These Fox's are floaters for sure!!!
I would have done another one or 2, ( cause I needed it) but the temp kept slowly
creeping up. When it hit 260 so I brought it in. Seems odd to me that sitting
there in front of my hangar...running at 2500 or so after the flight, the oiL
temp just seems to sit there with out coming down.????
I also had a small stream on the right gear leg again...coming from the overflow
I am sure. I see now that when in a left hand pattern, and dropping the inside
wing way down to see the strip on base turn thru the roof...it is just gonna
come out this line..the vent line fitting is on the left side of the neck.
I now see why the 912 owners manual says nothing over 40 degrees of bank.
I believe I am gonna try that loop in the vent line someone suggested. I am certain
that as long as I own this plane...keeping it less than 40 degrees bank angle
is gonna be next to impossible!
I am also gonna look closely at the cooling air outlet area. It may be that the
cowl is just not vented enough to get good airflow thru the Oil Cooler. It is
right in the middle of the front hole under the gearbox, dang near sticking out
, but maybe air is just not getting thru it., Dunno......
As far as 912 school...I would Love to...I can never get enough of service schools.
I supervise several every year, and learn from which ever side of the room
I am on. First one I get a chance to attend...I will be there.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118541#118541
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912UL Lost oil??? |
Hi Don,
Sorry I don't have a definitve answer, but sometimes it's hard to diagnose a problem
long distance.
One last thing right now and it's easy. Make sure that the oil line out and the
oil line into the tank is not crimped or radius reduced. This can cause this
type of problem. Double check the oil out line for this reduced radius. If you
can't get enough oil out to the engine the temp will climb and the oil may back
up enough from the return line to cause a high oil level in the tank and then
it will come out the overflow tube.
This is just something to take a look at.
I don't remember, but is that oil a motorcycle oil? The number one recommended
oil is a good synthetic motorcycle oil. The number 3 recommended oil, only if
motorcycle oil is not available, is car oil. Car oil has no shear additives. You
really need the shear additives for your gearbox, just like a motorcycle that
uses the engine oil in the gearbox area.
How much 100LL do you use? Use a semi-synthetic motorcycle oil with more than 30%
use of 100LL.
Some brand of oils foam really bad, which could be an issue. I'm not saying that
this is it, but just something to look at for a diagnoses and to rule it out.
p.s.
Some of the oils on the list are not USA oils even though the name looks like it.
Remember these engines are made for world wide use and Rotax has to select
and recommend oils from all over and some of those oils are from Europe.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118553#118553
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