---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/19/07: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:17 AM - Re: 912 oil filters (BOB MCMILLIN) 2. 05:38 AM - Re: CHT markings for Rotax 503 DCSI (cristalclear13) 3. 05:10 PM - Re: 912 oil filters (Roger Lee) 4. 06:00 PM - Re: 912 oil filters (rlborger) 5. 06:52 PM - Re: 912 oil filters (Hugh) 6. 07:07 PM - Re: Re: 912 oil filters (Hugh) 7. 07:14 PM - Re: 912 oil filters (rampil) 8. 09:28 PM - Re: 912 oil filters (Roger Lee) 9. 10:04 PM - Re: 912 oil filters (Roger Roy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:21 AM PST US From: "BOB MCMILLIN" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters I do not know by pass psi rating but can is rated for 500 psi burst . is a bigger filter and gives no oil pressure fluctuations like some other automotive filters i.e. bypass sticking or to high or low psi setting, price is the same as the rotax filter its just available locally. bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Bob: Your comment is well taken, however, you and Roger Lee seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on the matter of using automotive oil filters for the Rotax 912 UL. Check the Archive for this subject on this forum or drop him a note directly. The date of his comments is 12/29/06 on the Rotax engine forum. In his comments he states that the Purolator 1, PL10241 has a bypass rating of 12 psi. I do not know what the by-pass relief valve setting in psi is on the Rotax filter. Can you shed more light on this for all of us? Hugh McKay in NC Allegro 2000 912 UL N661WW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlborger Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:24 PM To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Jack, It's a serious No-No. You do NOT EVER want to use an automotive oil filter in the Rotax engine. The issue isn't filtration but pressure relief valve setting. Automotive filters have a much lower pressure relief valve which will allow dirty oil back into the engine before filter change time. Resulting damage will make a real Rotax oil filter seem dirt cheap. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Nov 17, 2007, at 8:13 PM, Jack Kuehn wrote: What's the latest on using automotive oil filters on a 912UL? Is there a K&N that is of high enough quality and proper fit? Jack http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R otaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:02 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: CHT markings for Rotax 503 DCSI From: "cristalclear13" Thanks again Ellery. Advice well worth paid for (I did contribute to the list fundraiser this month). You made me wonder about the markings and so I went back and re-read my email from the DAR and he only mentions the red mark on the CHT. Although it is GOOD for me to know what is a good and valid range for when I finally get to fly my little plane. Thanks! :D -------- Cristal Mark II Twinstar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147071#147071 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:47 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 oil filters From: "Roger Lee" Hi All, I just typed a nice long explanation on filters and this website timed me out and I lost it all. When I calm down I may retype it. In the mean time look at: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/filters.html There is some misinformation on some of the post. Just hearsay and no sound research. I think we can put all that in persprective. I'll be back. I think this time I'll type it under Word and attach it. This is the second time this site dumped my work. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147261#147261 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:57 PM PST US From: rlborger Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Hugh, I've gone through my notes from the Lockwood school and I did not make note of the bypass pressure of the Rotax oil filter. I have sent an e-mail off to Dean Vogel, the fellow who teaches the school. I'll let you know the results of any reply. If you are interested in what is taught at the school, I have a photo album of the shcool on my build web site. I highly recommend the school to anyone who owns a Rotax 9xx engine. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for some final testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for final testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seats arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Nov 18, 2007, at 10:01 PM, Hugh wrote: > Bob: > > > I agree, it is not worth the risk. I would like to know what the > pressure specs are for the Rotax filter. Any way of getting this? > > > Hugh ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:14 PM PST US From: "Hugh" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Bob: I must disagree with you on the price of the Rotax Filter and the Purolator 1 PL10241 Filter. By the time I get the Rotax filter from Lockwood Aviation with normal shipping the bill to my credit card is $31.33. This is outrageous! The Purolator 1 is only $5.88, and the store is right around the corner. I have not used the Purolator filter yet and am getting conflicting information about the two filters. I am trying to find out the real differences in the two filters to justify$31.33 vs. $5.88. Cane anyone else add to this discussion? Hugh McKay in NC Allegro 2000 Rotax 912 UL N661WW _____ From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BOB MCMILLIN Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:16 AM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters I do not know by pass psi rating but can is rated for 500 psi burst . is a bigger filter and gives no oil pressure fluctuations like some other automotive filters i.e. bypass sticking or to high or low psi setting, price is the same as the rotax filter its just available locally. bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Bob: Your comment is well taken, however, you and Roger Lee seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on the matter of using automotive oil filters for the Rotax 912 UL. Check the Archive for this subject on this forum or drop him a note directly. The date of his comments is 12/29/06 on the Rotax engine forum. In his comments he states that the Purolator 1, PL10241 has a bypass rating of 12 psi. I do not know what the by-pass relief valve setting in psi is on the Rotax filter. Can you shed more light on this for all of us? Hugh McKay in NC Allegro 2000 912 UL N661WW _____ From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlborger Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:24 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Jack, It's a serious No-No. You do NOT EVER want to use an automotive oil filter in the Rotax engine. The issue isn't filtration but pressure relief valve setting. Automotive filters have a much lower pressure relief valve which will allow dirty oil back into the engine before filter change time. Resulting damage will make a real Rotax oil filter seem dirt cheap. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Nov 17, 2007, at 8:13 PM, Jack Kuehn wrote: What's the latest on using automotive oil filters on a 912UL? Is there a K&N that is of high enough quality and proper fit? Jack http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:15 PM PST US From: "Hugh" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 oil filters Roger: I just copied you on my last reply to Bob Borger on this subject. I would appreciate your input in light of your research. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:10 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 oil filters Hi All, I just typed a nice long explanation on filters and this website timed me out and I lost it all. When I calm down I may retype it. In the mean time look at: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/filters.html There is some misinformation on some of the post. Just hearsay and no sound research. I think we can put all that in persprective. I'll be back. I think this time I'll type it under Word and attach it. This is the second time this site dumped my work. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147261#147261 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:47 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 oil filters From: "rampil" Hugh, I too took the line maintenance class with Dean Vogel. The information from the class was definitely in favor of the "official" rotax filter. Dean was also quite clear on the great sensitivity of the Rotax engine to clean, adequate oil. You are free to make your own choice of course, but you do own an aircraft, and know the consequences to your wallet! Cheers, Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147313#147313 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:24 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 oil filters From: "Roger Lee" Hi Guys, Just a quick note before bedtime. The Rotax bypass pressure is .9-1.1 bar or 13-15.9 psi. The people who teach the class which I have attended are only repeating what they have been told. Research is better than hand me down info. I will post tomorrow on this. Please read the website I posted it will help understand oil filters better. The USA filters in my post are at 12-15 psi. This is not worth worrying about and I will explain tomorrow. When I researched this subject I can't begin to tell you how people, in the business, interpreted bypass pressure. P.S. There is no risk and the other filters have been proven with more than 10 or more years experience in the field with some 912's with 3K+ hours and no rebuild. Good Night and safe Flying. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147348#147348 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:59 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Bob, I did take time to view all 145 pics in your Lockwood school album very interesting and an excellent job with the camera. One thing that sort of raised the hair on the back of my neck was the fact that a statement made as to the removal, disassembly, cleaning and reinstallation of that oil tank. Unless I missed it I checked ROAN's SB and SL as well as the line maintenance manual and no where could I find that task, can you shed some light on that? ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Bob: I must disagree with you on the price of the Rotax Filter and the Purolator 1 PL10241 Filter. By the time I get the Rotax filter from Lockwood Aviation with normal shipping the bill to my credit card is $31.33. This is outrageous! The Purolator 1 is only $5.88, and the store is right around the corner. I have not used the Purolator filter yet and am getting conflicting information about the two filters. I am trying to find out the real differences in the two filters to justify$31.33 vs. $5.88. Cane anyone else add to this discussion? Hugh McKay in NC Allegro 2000 Rotax 912 UL N661WW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BOB MCMILLIN Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:16 AM To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters I do not know by pass psi rating but can is rated for 500 psi burst . is a bigger filter and gives no oil pressure fluctuations like some other automotive filters i.e. bypass sticking or to high or low psi setting, price is the same as the rotax filter its just available locally. bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Hugh To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Bob: Your comment is well taken, however, you and Roger Lee seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on the matter of using automotive oil filters for the Rotax 912 UL. Check the Archive for this subject on this forum or drop him a note directly. The date of his comments is 12/29/06 on the Rotax engine forum. In his comments he states that the Purolator 1, PL10241 has a bypass rating of 12 psi. I do not know what the by-pass relief valve setting in psi is on the Rotax filter. Can you shed more light on this for all of us? Hugh McKay in NC Allegro 2000 912 UL N661WW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rlborger Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:24 PM To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: 912 oil filters Jack, It's a serious No-No. You do NOT EVER want to use an automotive oil filter in the Rotax engine. The issue isn't filtration but pressure relief valve setting. Automotive filters have a much lower pressure relief valve which will allow dirty oil back into the engine before filter change time. Resulting damage will make a real Rotax oil filter seem dirt cheap. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Flaps & Main Gear complete. Mod 72 complete. Instrument panel complete, except for testing. Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time). Airmaster Prop installed. Electrical complete, except for testing. Fuel system complete except for testing. Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Nov 17, 2007, at 8:13 PM, Jack Kuehn wrote: > What's the latest on using automotive oil filters on a 912UL? Is there a K&N that is of high enough quality and proper fit? Jack http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R otaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R otaxEngines-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.