---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/14/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Fine Fuel Filter (Hugh) 2. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: 912 EFI kit (jason Parker) 3. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: 912 EFI kit (Joe Ronco) 4. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Engine Vibration (Hugh) 5. 02:27 PM - Re: Engine Vibration (Thom Riddle) 6. 02:35 PM - Re: Engine Vibration (Roger Lee) 7. 02:46 PM - Re: Fine Fuel Filter (Roger Lee) 8. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Engine Vibration (Guy Buchanan) 9. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: 912 EFI kit (jason Parker) 10. 05:32 PM - Re: Fine Fuel Filter (Noel Loveys) 11. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Engine Vibration (Hugh) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:16 AM PST US From: "Hugh" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Fine Fuel Filter Gentlemen: On page 38 of the Rotax 912UL engine installation manual, figure 22 shows that a fine fuel filter (mesh size 0.1 mm) must be installed upstream of the mechanical fuel pump. I assume this is the bowl/filter unit that protrudes out of the belly of the plane that is installed between the fuel tank and electric fuel pump. My question is how often does this "filter" have to be checked, and since I have never opened the filter unit what type filter is it, and can it be easily replaced if contaminated? Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 912UL N661WW ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:45 AM PST US From: jason Parker Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 EFI kit I have seen may people attempt to do fuel injection, but at www.experimentalfuelinjection.com , we do it right. First off, fuel injection requires 8-9amps no matter who is making the set up. With this in mind, the only way to properly run fuel injection is with a 55 amp external alt. Our set ups are simply the best. We offer 4 different configurations of 912's and 5 different configurations of 914's. From Intercooled direct port fuel injection, to truly redundant set ups on fuel and ignition, we have it all. Regards Jason www.experimentalfuelinjection.com 661 428-1850 it is about a ready to go EFI system utilize the original manifold you can choice with either one or two (as a back up) ecu boxes what is important the system can run without battery it is self redundant. better fuel economy in middle range, better egt with only approx 20C differ between cylinders. nice system but to expensive for the 100 to 200 hrs flyer per year i think but nice and technical Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156564#156564 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:39 PM PST US From: "Joe Ronco" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 EFI kit JASON: I am curious as to why you need a 55 Amp alternator for the EFI for the 912 ULS? Another engine manufacturer only uses a 30 Amp. Joe Ronco From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jason Parker Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:00 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 EFI kit I have seen may people attempt to do fuel injection, but at www.experimentalfuelinjection.com , we do it right. First off, fuel injection requires 8-9amps no matter who is making the set up. With this in mind, the only way to properly run fuel injection is with a 55 amp external alt. Our set ups are simply the best. We offer 4 different configurations of 912's and 5 different configurations of 914's. From Intercooled direct port fuel injection, to truly redundant set ups on fuel and ignition, we have it all. Regards Jason www.experimentalfuelinjection.com 661 428-1850 alex_01 wrote: it is about a ready to go EFI system utilize the original manifold you can choice with either one or two (as a back up) ecu ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:50 PM PST US From: "Hugh" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration Roger: I have tried to find some one near here (Charlotte and or Hickory, NC) that can dynamically balance my Allegro 2000 that has a 3 blade WoodComp prop. I have found that no one will do it for a number of reasons two of which follows: 1. They do not balance props that have a gearbox between the engine propeller drive. 2. There is no place on the WoodComp aluminum hub to attach balance weight. At least one shop said they would look at my plane if I would fly it down to their shop. I don't fully understand why the gearbox and the gears would be a problem. Anyway, right now I have run into a dead end on this matter, and don't fully know why. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration Hi Hugh, Your Woodcomp was statically balanced at the factory. Aircraft Spruce and a few other people sell a very simple static balance device that utilizes a bubble balancer on a string. This set up works well enough for those who's props weren't done or wants to check theirs once a year. Even though your prop is statically balanced, everything forward of the mounting plate on the gearbox i.e. nuts, bolts, washers, spinners and the such are not and none of these are in balance when turning 5000 rpm. All props should be balanced on the plane spinning at cruise rpm. You go out to the pad and chalk the wheels and tie it down. The balancer then can measure vibration that you can not feel. There has to be someone in your area that does this for other aircraft. Just start asking around with the service shops and I'm sure someone knows of a person who can do a dynamic balance. Get on the web and type in prop balancing + your town. The instrument that does this does cost $2K and up, but people who service aircraft should know of someone who has this instrument. Dynamic prop balancing is a regular aircraft maint. function. When I started to look I didn't know of anyone in my area. After a little search I found 4 people who did this. Prices were from $175-$250. Takes about an hour. Think of a dynamic prop balance that is not done like this. If someone smokes cigarettes or is a diabetic it does not take their life right now, but over a long time period it causes many other problems and an early death. A static balance only for your engine and gearbox is not enough. My Warp Drive was static balanced at the factory, but way off when mounted on the plane with hardware and running. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155353#155353 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:41 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration From: "Thom Riddle" Hugh, I think you are getting a run-around. Its not like Type Certificated aircraft have never had gearbox PSRUs. The Cessna 175 comes to mind. The center of rotating mass asymmetry with respect to the rotational center of the prop shaft, which what dynamic balancing is supposed to correct, has nothing to do with the fact that there is a gearbox between the prop shaft and the crankshaft, at least to my way of thinking, but I could be wrong. do not archive -------- Thom Riddle N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL N197BG FS1/447 -------------------- Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158118#158118 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:03 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration From: "Roger Lee" Hi Hugh, I don't know why a Rotax gearbox would scare anyone away. You balance it just like any other prop. They are just uneducated. The gearbox wouldn't make any difference. The prop will balance or it won't. You attach balance weights (washers) to the hub bolts. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158119#158119 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:18 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Fine Fuel Filter From: "Roger Lee" Hi Hugh, Your operators manual or inspection manual may also have a time line for replacing your filter. I'm sure Allegro has something in one of their manuals. Depending on how often you fly I would change it every 100 hrs. or once a year at its annual. Some people only fly 30 hrs a year and some 250 hrs a year. Many fuel filters have a throw away element inside and some are toss the whole filter. Seems like lots of the filter elements can be had at an auto parts store. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158123#158123 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:36 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration At 02:14 PM 1/14/2008, you wrote: >1. They do not balance props that have a gearbox between the engine >propeller drive. >2. There is no place on the WoodComp aluminum hub to attach balance weight. Polite BS. I've had my Rotax 582 / Warp 3-blade dynamically balanced. They attached weight to the spinner backing plate. You could do the prop bolts as well. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:04 PM PST US From: jason Parker Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 EFI kit Joe, I use the same alternator used on the rotax alt kit. It is a 6 pound denso alternator one wire set up. You need 9-10 amps for fuel injection. If you rely on the stock stater /gen assembly, it is only good for 14 continuous. With fuel injection pulling 10 amps, that leaves you 4 for gages, strobes, radio, ect. To answer your question, a 30 amp alt will do just fine. Jason Joe Ronco wrote: JASON: I am curious as to why you need a 55 Amp alternator for the EFI for the 912 ULS? Another engine manufacturer only uses a 30 Amp. Joe Ronco From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jason Parker Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:00 PM To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 EFI kit I have seen may people attempt to do fuel injection, but at www.experimentalfuelinjection.com , we do it right. First off, fuel injection requires 8-9amps no matter who is making the set up. With this in mind, the only way to properly run fuel injection is with a 55 amp external alt. Our set ups are simply the best. We offer 4 different configurations of 912's and 5 different configurations of 914's. From Intercooled direct port fuel injection, to truly redundant set ups on fuel and ignition, we have it all. Regards Jason www.experimentalfuelinjection.com 661 428-1850 alex_01 wrote: it is about a ready to go EFI system utilize the original manifold you can choice with either one or two (as a back up) ecu http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:55 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Fine Fuel Filter Hugh: I just had a peek down through all my unread posts and noticed no one answered your question. I hope you will get many answers written in different ways. The doo dad with the glass bowl you see on the bottom of your plane is called a gascolator. It is a device designed to help separate water if there is any form your fuel before it gets to the engine. Most gascolators have a very fine copper or brass screen in them that filter out any lumps that may be in the gas. I think the screen is generally .05 mm which means it is all the pre screening your pump will need. To clean the gascolator, I suggest annually or every 50 hr whichever comes first, cut the lockwire and unscrew the little wheel slide the retainer forward away from the bowl and the bowl will drop down by itself. Be careful some of the screens are held in place by tiny O rings and you don't want to lose one or drop and break the bowl. You can clean the screen with a little compressed air ( not too much ) it is not as strong as chain link fence so handle it gently. When you re assemble the bowl and the retainer and tighten up the little wheel don't forget to lockwire the wheel back in place. If the bowl falls out no gas can get to the engine and it's real messy. Btw I'm of the mind that only screens should be used before the fuel pump..... true filters should always be used on the pressure side of a system. I'll bet I'll get reaction to that one! J Noel From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Fine Fuel Filter Gentlemen: On page 38 of the Rotax 912UL engine installation manual, figure 22 shows that a fine fuel filter (mesh size 0.1 mm) must be installed upstream of the mechanical fuel pump. I assume this is the bowl/filter unit that protrudes out of the belly of the plane that is installed between the fuel tank and electric fuel pump. My question is how often does this "filter" have to be checked, and since I have never opened the filter unit what type filter is it, and can it be easily replaced if contaminated? Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 912UL N661WW ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:28 PM PST US From: "Hugh" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration Tom, Roger, Guy: Thanks for your feedback! I suspected the very same thing. I am going to continue to seek out some one to do the Dyn. Balancing. At least I'm going to follow up with the firm that was willing to look at my plane. Thanks again to all of you. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine Vibration At 02:14 PM 1/14/2008, you wrote: >1. They do not balance props that have a gearbox between the engine >propeller drive. >2. There is no place on the WoodComp aluminum hub to attach balance weight. Polite BS. I've had my Rotax 582 / Warp 3-blade dynamically balanced. They attached weight to the spinner backing plate. You could do the prop bolts as well. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.