Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - Re: Wedding Gifts (Tony Crowe)
2. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem (Noel Loveys)
3. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem (Les Goldner)
4. 11:38 AM - Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem (Roger Lee)
5. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem (william sullivan)
6. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem (BOB MCMILLIN)
7. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem (Guy Buchanan)
8. 07:27 PM - Re: Wedding Gifts (Rich & Sandy Schultz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wedding Gifts |
Please can you keep the topic to Rotax Engines
Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich & Sandy Schultz
To: 'Deb Garetson' ; rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Wedding Gifts
Hi Deb and Lisa,
I went to Bed Bath and Beyond today. I bought everything we had
talked about, Deb, but there were a couple of things that had already
been bought. This is what I bought: hand held mixer, Pyrex baking
pans, vegetable peeler, grater, measuring spoons, measuring cups, oven
mitt, pot holder, canisters, spatula, and tongs. The total came to
$98.55 with tax. We still have $21.45. Do you want me to go back and
pick up a couple more things from the kitchen list? Bed Bath and Beyond
has a complimentary gift wrapping service, so I let them wrap
everything. There are four silver boxes with the store sticker on them
and one box is wrapped in silver/white paper. We can sign the little
gift tags with each family name and still get a wedding card. I thought
about going to Borders and picking up a cookbook to go along with all of
their new kitchen equipment.
Let me know what you guys think.
Sandy
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem |
The hand grinding probably is the reason Warp requires the blades be set
using the tip.
As for dynamic balancing... It is really the fine tuning of the balancing
procedure. Just like you can get a pretty decent balance on your car using
a counterbalance beam, if you really want it done right so you don't get a
shimmy at 70 mph you will want to have your tires dynamically balanced.
There are some places that even dynamically balance the wheels while still
on the car.
How critical can balancing be? Well on Bell 206 helicopters the final
dynamic balancing doesn't occur with the main rotor turning.. It doesn't
occur in a hover... It must be done when the chopper is moving at least 60
kt. The adjustments are very fine and even the weight of flies crushed on
the rotor can send the balance out. BTW keep your blades clean they turn a
lot faster than rotors.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Buchanan
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration
problem
At 01:41 PM 3/10/2008, you wrote:
>So long as each blade was measured and checked at exactly the same
>point it should not matter.
I'm not sure I understand you, Roger. Are you saying that
you'll get the right pitch later using the dynamic tracking method
with the colored tape? Or are you saying that the blades have exactly
the same twist? What I found on mine was that they had different
twist, by as much as 3/4 degree. Thus if you set equal at the tip,
they were 3/4 degree off at 75%. This makes a difference, since the
bulk of the force is generated around 75% span. Thus I set mine equal
at 75% and let the tips fall where they would.
I'm not positive the dynamic tracking method is more
accurate than the geometric method. These blades are solid carbon
laminates and subject to some variation in flexural properties. Also,
the tips are HAND GROUND, yes you heard that correctly. (If you want
a shock, measure the thickness / chord ratio throughout your blades.
Very scary.) This means the tip flexure will probably be somewhat
different, blade to blade.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem |
Guy,
I reset the pitch to where it was before the vibration started... No change;
it still vibrates throughout the rpm range (even seems a little worse).
I set the pitch at the end of the blades, per Warpdrive's instructions. The
blades all track exactly the same and are the same length (yes, I pulled
them out as far as they would go before uniformly tightening the bolts), and
Warpdrive tells me they all weigh the same.
As you suggest, I will see if the pitch differs at the 75% point, but since
there was no vibration a few days ago and since I have put the pitch back to
where it was before the problem started, and since I have no reason to
believe the blades warped in the last few days, I don't think that pitch
variation is the problem... so the trouble is probably in the engine!##?@!!
So far I have set the pitch really carefully, sync'd the carbs, checked the
motor mounts, changed the plugs, made certain the fuel is flowing properly,
and know that the engine can reach or get close to its maximum RPM. The
vibration is felt throughout the RPM range. The 912 ULS engine (SR 5643233)
only has 20 total hours on it
I don't know where to go from here. Any ideas ???
Les
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:29 AM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 with low RPM---
> new vibration problem
>
> <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 03:21 PM 3/9/2008, you wrote:
> >Although I very carefully changed the pitch of the 3-blade
> warp drive
> >prop about 3/4ths of a degree, and the maximum RPM is now within the
> >range you suggested, the plane now vibrated a lot more than
> it did at
> >all but idle setting. Yes I double checked the uniformity of
> prop pitch
> >and made certain that the blades were seating right..
>
> Where, on the blade, did you check the pitch? My Warp has
> 3/4 degree variation at the tips so what I do is equalize
> them at 75% span after getting the RPM close. I use 75%
> because that's approximately the "max force" position on the blade.
> The other thing to check is that one blade didn't
> accidently recede slightly when you were changing pitch. Even
> a tiny difference in radius will result in a huge imbalance.
> Make sure they're seated.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem |
Is your gearbox within the group for recall? Probably not, but I had to ask.
If it were me I would do a dynamic balance. Anything else at this point is guessing
and chasing your tail. The balance guy can probably help you on finding the
vibration if it's not the prop. Remember the prop blades may weigh very close
to the same, but all the hardware to fasten it down doesn't.
Do you have a mag rpm drop when you do a mag check?
Check your gearbox magnetic plug and look you debris. If something has started
to wear badly or chipped inside you will start to see it at the plug.
I know this is very frustrating.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169064#169064
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem |
Just an idea- Can you borrow a prop? That would be one way to check it.
Bill Sullivan
Kolb Firestar
447 with 2 blade Warp Drive
Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Is your gearbox within the group for recall? Probably not, but I had to ask.
If it were me I would do a dynamic balance. Anything else at this point is guessing
and chasing your tail. The balance guy can probably help you on finding the
vibration if it's not the prop. Remember the prop blades may weigh very close
to the same, but all the hardware to fasten it down doesn't.
Do you have a mag rpm drop when you do a mag check?
Check your gearbox magnetic plug and look you debris. If something has started
to wear badly or chipped inside you will start to see it at the plug.
I know this is very frustrating.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169064#169064
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration problem |
what type of instrument did you check carb sync with vac. or mercury typ?
what level is the circlip on needle jet? check for any debris in carb bowls.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Goldner" <lgold@quantum-associates.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration
problem
> <lgold@quantum-associates.com>
>
> Guy,
> I reset the pitch to where it was before the vibration started... No
> change;
> it still vibrates throughout the rpm range (even seems a little worse).
>
> I set the pitch at the end of the blades, per Warpdrive's instructions.
> The
> blades all track exactly the same and are the same length (yes, I pulled
> them out as far as they would go before uniformly tightening the bolts),
> and
> Warpdrive tells me they all weigh the same.
>
> As you suggest, I will see if the pitch differs at the 75% point, but
> since
> there was no vibration a few days ago and since I have put the pitch back
> to
> where it was before the problem started, and since I have no reason to
> believe the blades warped in the last few days, I don't think that pitch
> variation is the problem... so the trouble is probably in the
> engine!##?@!!
>
> So far I have set the pitch really carefully, sync'd the carbs, checked
> the
> motor mounts, changed the plugs, made certain the fuel is flowing
> properly,
> and know that the engine can reach or get close to its maximum RPM. The
> vibration is felt throughout the RPM range. The 912 ULS engine (SR
> 5643233)
> only has 20 total hours on it
>
> I don't know where to go from here. Any ideas ???
> Les
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On
>> Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:29 AM
>> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 with low RPM---
>> new vibration problem
>>
>> <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>> At 03:21 PM 3/9/2008, you wrote:
>> >Although I very carefully changed the pitch of the 3-blade
>> warp drive
>> >prop about 3/4ths of a degree, and the maximum RPM is now within the
>> >range you suggested, the plane now vibrated a lot more than
>> it did at
>> >all but idle setting. Yes I double checked the uniformity of
>> prop pitch
>> >and made certain that the blades were seating right..
>>
>> Where, on the blade, did you check the pitch? My Warp has
>> 3/4 degree variation at the tips so what I do is equalize
>> them at 75% span after getting the RPM close. I use 75%
>> because that's approximately the "max force" position on the blade.
>> The other thing to check is that one blade didn't
>> accidently recede slightly when you were changing pitch. Even
>> a tiny difference in radius will result in a huge imbalance.
>> Make sure they're seated.
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> San Diego, CA
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>> Photoshare, and much much more:
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912 with low RPM--- new vibration |
problem
At 09:18 AM 3/11/2008, you wrote:
>I don't know where to go from here. Any ideas ???
My flying buddy had an S with a seemingly intermittent
vibration problem. It turns out his was pre-slipper clutch and that
once he installed the clutch everything was fine. One more idea to
distract you.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 8
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Opps!
Fat fingers
_____
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Crowe
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Wedding Gifts
Please can you keep the topic to Rotax Engines
Thanks
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