Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Re: 914 Overhaul (Robert C Harrison)
2. 04:20 AM - Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads (T Riddle)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: 914 Overhaul (Gilles Thesee)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads (Roger Lee)
5. 09:32 AM - heat transfer compound (william sullivan)
6. 12:38 PM - Re: heat transfer compound (Roger Lee)
7. 12:43 PM - Manuals (Roger Lee)
8. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: heat transfer compound (Ivan)
9. 03:22 PM - Re: Manuals (knowvne@aol.com)
10. 04:38 PM - Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads ()
11. 04:57 PM - Re: heat transfer compound (Roger Lee)
12. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: heat transfer compound (Ivan)
13. 05:34 PM - Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads (Ivan)
14. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: heat transfer compound (Noel Loveys)
15. 07:06 PM - Re: 914 Overhaul (Paul McAllister)
Message 1
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Hi! Paul
One would need to see all the "numbers " to make a considered
assessment, however sounds a bit like "spoil the ship for a hap'orth of
tar" to me. Cutting corners never really pays dividends besides which
your suggestion finishes up with mixed hours for flying regs.
In other words .."pay peanuts get monkeys!" .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Sent: 01 June 2008 23:19
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 914 Overhaul
Hi all,
I was wondering when it comes time to overhaul my 914 whether a more
economical approach might be to purchase a new 912, install my exhaust,
turbo, inlet manifolds and gear box onto the new block. I could then
reassemble the swapped parts onto my old 914 block and sell it on eBay
as a used 912 to offset the cost.
This approach would give mostly new parts with the exception of the
turbo, gearbox and other bits unique to the 914. I'd be interested in
anyones thoughts on this.
Paul
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads |
WHY does Lockwood say not to use Champion or equivalent anti-seize
compound on spark plug threads in Rotax 9 series engines? Without
knowing why, I think I'll continue to use what I've been using
successfully on spark plug threads for over 30 years including many
hundreds of hours on 912 engines.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Overhaul |
Paul McAllister a crit :
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering when it comes time to overhaul my 914 whether a more
> economical approach might be to purchase a new 912, install my
> exhaust, turbo, inlet manifolds and gear box onto the new block. I
> could then reassemble the swapped parts onto my old 914 block and sell
> it on eBay as a used 912 to offset the cost.
>
> This approach would give mostly new parts with the exception of the
> turbo, gearbox and other bits unique to the 914. I'd be interested in
> anyones thoughts on this.
Paul and all,
You seem to suppose that a 914 overhaul is more expensive than a brand
new 912 ? Is that really so ?
Also, the cost of the gearbox, carbs, turbo must go into the equation.
As a prospective buyer, I would be wary of a used 912 with a 914 serial...
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads |
Hi Thom,
Because anti-seize is a different compound. It was designed just so surfaces would
not bond and make items hard to remove. It wasn't designed to be a heat conductor.
Just like the plug paste primary roll is not to be an anti-seize compound.
Are you using the anti-seize to help prevent galling or for heat transfer?
How do you know you are using it successfully? How can you qualify or measure
that? Car engines are not the same as a Rotax and have different heating and
cooling properties in different areas. They may have different metallurgy and
heat distribution at the plug and head contact points in these engine, too.
The plug paste is dirt cheap. A small squeeze tube that will last 2-3 changes cost
about $1.38 and a big tube that will last a life time for you and your friends
is about $13.
I'm not always on the book side of the Rotax manual, but this one is too easy to
comply with and it's not expensive. I have and still am coming full circle here
myself and coming to terms that I have not always done the right thing for
the right reasons. I have realized the amount of money, total hours and science
that Rotax has invested over twenty years of the 912's existence. It may seem
to work on the surface, but our changes to the engine are sometimes misguided.
I will be the first person in this line of misguidance, but I am walking a
new path now.
You go to enough schools and see enough engine issues caused by the user and the
new path was easier to see.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185857#185857
Message 5
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| Subject: | heat transfer compound |
Do you have to use a heat transfer compound on plugs in a 447?
Bill Sullivan
Kolb Firestar/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: heat transfer compound |
The 2 strokes do not get any paste, lube or anti-seize at all. They are supposed
to be a dry thread and torqued because the heads on the 2 strokes are softer
aluminum (different materials than the 4 strokes) and can be damaged with improper
torque. This can happen whether they are dry if you use to much torque,
but more susceptible if lubricated.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185905#185905
Message 7
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Hi All,
I would highly recommend that for what ever engine you own to go on line on the
Kodiak website and print off the manuals that pertain to your engine. I would
then sit down and read through the manuals. Don't try to memorize it, but just
get an idea of where things are located so when you have a question you know
where to go. This will keep your engines running well and keep them reliable.
Here is the site:
http://www.kodiakbs.com/tiintro.htm
A happy plane makes for a happy pilot and less work in the long run.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185906#185906
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: heat transfer compound |
Roger
On my 582 the US Dealer/Distributor had me put antiseize on the sparkplugs
(silver colored antiseize.)
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:35 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: heat transfer compound
>
> The 2 strokes do not get any paste, lube or anti-seize at all. They are
> supposed to be a dry thread and torqued because the heads on the 2 strokes
> are softer aluminum (different materials than the 4 strokes) and can be
> damaged with improper torque. This can happen whether they are dry if you
> use to much torque, but more susceptible if lubricated.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185905#185905
>
>
>
Message 9
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Thanks Rodger...=C2-
Take the 16 hour course soon so this should be good info..
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 3:41 pm
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Manuals
Hi All,
I would highly recommend that for what ever engine you own to go on line on
the
Kodiak website and print off the manuals that pertain to your engine. I woul
d
then sit down and read through the manuals. Don't try to memorize it, but ju
st
get an idea of where things are located so when you have a question you know
where to go. This will keep your engines running well and keep them reliable
.
Here is the site:
http://www.kodiakbs.com/tiintro.htm
A happy plane makes for a happy pilot and less work in the long run.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185906#185906
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads |
Hi Duncan
> Not having the benifit of access to the research/testing done on the
> alternatives, why would copperslip be inferior? Copper is a far better
> conductor than the glass (?) used in normal silcone heat sink compounds.
> Except that the carrier grease probably boils off and its use is frowned
> upon in automotive cirlces (because excessive use can contaminate catalytic
> converters).
> Or has Rotax found the copper to be incompatable with the Nikasil cylinder
> linings?
According to Rotax one problem is many of the compounds that were tested
would disappear real fast. The stuff that Rotax sells supposedly if you
got a dab on the tip, it would be there after 100 hours.
I know some anti sieze compounds have glass in them, probably not a good
idea to run through your motor.
Ron Parigoris
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: heat transfer compound |
Hi Ivan,
I went back through all the 2 stroke manuals and it doesn't say anything about
the use of anti-seize on 2 stroke plugs, but it is taught not to use anything
on 2 stroke threads in the Rotax classes. If the manual doesn't say use it there
must be a reason for it.
It does say to torque them on a cold engine only. Remember the heads are aluminum
and the plug threads are steel. No gorilla arms when tightening plugs.
The maint. manual says to torque the plugs on a cold engine to 238 in/lbs or 19.8
ft/lbs. page 11-4 sec. 11.8
The installation manual says to torque the plugs with a CHT sensor ring in place
to 133 in/lbs. or 11 ft/lbs pg 20-1 fig. 49
This is quite a difference. Might help to call Lockwood for a clarification.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185952#185952
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: heat transfer compound |
Thanks for the info. Kemmeries Aviation, the US importer for Air Creation
Trikes which all come with Rotax engines, gave me this info. I will double
check it this month.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:54 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: heat transfer compound
>
> Hi Ivan,
>
> I went back through all the 2 stroke manuals and it doesn't say anything
> about the use of anti-seize on 2 stroke plugs, but it is taught not to use
> anything on 2 stroke threads in the Rotax classes. If the manual doesn't
> say use it there must be a reason for it.
> It does say to torque them on a cold engine only. Remember the heads are
> aluminum and the plug threads are steel. No gorilla arms when tightening
> plugs.
>
> The maint. manual says to torque the plugs on a cold engine to 238 in/lbs
> or 19.8 ft/lbs. page 11-4 sec. 11.8
>
> The installation manual says to torque the plugs with a CHT sensor ring in
> place to 133 in/lbs. or 11 ft/lbs pg 20-1 fig. 49
>
> This is quite a difference. Might help to call Lockwood for a
> clarification.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185952#185952
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads |
I know on the Jabiru engine (just FYI) recommends NOT to use copper
antiseize I think because it can actually merge with the alloys in the
engine block. They recommend to use NICKEL antiseize which I have without a
problem. Of course the alloys in the Rotax engine may not be the same as
the Jabiru.
Ivan
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Silicone for Spark Plug Threads
>
> Hi Duncan
>
>> Not having the benifit of access to the research/testing done on the
>> alternatives, why would copperslip be inferior? Copper is a far better
>> conductor than the glass (?) used in normal silcone heat sink compounds.
>> Except that the carrier grease probably boils off and its use is frowned
>> upon in automotive cirlces (because excessive use can contaminate
>> catalytic
>> converters).
>> Or has Rotax found the copper to be incompatable with the Nikasil
>> cylinder
>> linings?
>
> According to Rotax one problem is many of the compounds that were tested
> would disappear real fast. The stuff that Rotax sells supposedly if you
> got a dab on the tip, it would be there after 100 hours.
>
> I know some anti sieze compounds have glass in them, probably not a good
> idea to run through your motor.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: heat transfer compound |
I've been criticized for this before but I always torque the plugs on my 582
to 220 in.lb. intentionally. I tend to check my plugs quite often (5-10hr)
and have never had a problem with the lower torque. I do check my torque
wrench annually for calibration at that torque. I also never use anything
on the threads of my plugs except a soft clean cloth. Whenever I remove all
the plugs I will put a clean shop towel over the plug openings to keep any
grit from getting into the combustion chambers.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:25 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: heat transfer compound
Hi Ivan,
I went back through all the 2 stroke manuals and it doesn't say anything
about the use of anti-seize on 2 stroke plugs, but it is taught not to use
anything on 2 stroke threads in the Rotax classes. If the manual doesn't say
use it there must be a reason for it.
It does say to torque them on a cold engine only. Remember the heads are
aluminum and the plug threads are steel. No gorilla arms when tightening
plugs.
The maint. manual says to torque the plugs on a cold engine to 238 in/lbs or
19.8 ft/lbs. page 11-4 sec. 11.8
The installation manual says to torque the plugs with a CHT sensor ring in
place to 133 in/lbs. or 11 ft/lbs pg 20-1 fig. 49
This is quite a difference. Might help to call Lockwood for a clarification.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185952#185952
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Overhaul |
Hi Gilles,
>You seem to suppose that a 914 overhaul is more expensive than a brand
>new 912 ? Is that really so ?
>--
>Gilles
Actually to be honest I don't know the most recent cost for a 914 overhaul. Two
years ago I was quoted about $12,000 USD so I can only suppose that is cost
more now. I seem to recall that this didn't include replacing the turbo, or exhaust
but did include a gearbox overhaul.
What is appealing about my idea is that for the most part I would end up with brand
new parts, but this is based in the assumption that a 912 block, cam & heads
are identical to a 914. This would require quite a bit of research cross
checking spare part numbers to confirm.
Mine has 800 hours on it now and the only issue is an oil leak on the top of the
engine that would require the crank case to be split to reseal.
I have been told of an oil resistant "wick in" sealant made by Locktite that is
made for this exact purpose so I am going to see if I can track some of this
stuff down.
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers, Paul
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