Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:22 AM - Re: Carb sync tools (gmail account)
2. 09:05 AM - Re: Carb sync tools (ricklach)
3. 10:53 AM - Strategies for car gas at the airport (Craig Payne)
4. 11:07 AM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Jack Kuehn)
5. 12:17 PM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Roger Lee)
6. 12:51 PM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Ollie Washburn)
7. 01:19 PM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Noel Loveys)
8. 03:52 PM - 10% ethanol in 912s (Joe Spencer)
9. 04:02 PM - Re: Carb sync tools (Roger Lee)
10. 04:04 PM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Nick Savener)
11. 04:07 PM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (paul wilson)
12. 04:34 PM - Re: 10% ethanol in 912s (Roger Lee)
13. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Craig Payne)
14. 06:31 PM - Re: 10% ethanol in 912s (Ivan)
15. 07:20 PM - carb sinc (markdonahue)
16. 09:19 PM - Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Craig Payne)
17. 09:23 PM - Re: Re: 10% ethanol in 912s (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Carb sync tools |
Craig,
I have been using this tool for some time now and can report it is very
accurate, cheap, and easy to use. Dont rest the hoses on your windscreen as
the pulses through the engine will scratch the Perspex, or Lexan in my case,
but otherwise thoroughly recommended.
Regards
Geoff Bell
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Carb sync tools |
Hi Geoff,
What is "this Tool"? Do you mean the $1.55 home made vacuum manometer or something
else? Could you please explain a little or post a picture.
Thanks
Rick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193114#193114
Message 3
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| Subject: | Strategies for car gas at the airport |
The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my
airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more
deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at
ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple
of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand
will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about
hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the
whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from
the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car
tank filler necks.
-- Craig
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
I have a 23 gallon tank in my Sky Ranger, and two six gallon plastic gas
cans, dedicated for use only with mogas for the airplane does the job. In
actual practice you rarely need more than 10 or 12 gallons to bring the tank
up to a 3 or 4 hour flight duration. Rarely, you may have to make a second
trip to the gas station to top up right to the top. Don't use av gas unless
you have to, it makes a huge mess of your plugs, oil, gearbox, oil sump,
though the engine will run fine! Filling the tank is easy, by hefting the 6
gallon tank up onto the empennage just behind the wing, and using a siphon.
You can get a self starting siphon with a brass ball end which you shake to
get started ( a company in Colorado I think). It is a 3/4 ID hose and 6
gallons moves through it in short order.
Jack
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
wrote:
> craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my
> airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more
> deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at
> ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple
> of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand
> will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about
> hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the
> whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
>
> How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from
> the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most
> car
> tank filler necks.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
--
Jack Kuehn
5565 Brady Ln
Lolo, MT USA 59847
(406)273-6801
(406)546-1086 cell
jack.kuehn@gmail.com
(406)273-2563 fax
http://mountaintime.myrf.net/imglib/index.htm
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
Hi Craig,
I have a 30 gal. drum rated for fuel with a 12 Volt pump on rollers. I bring the
fuel to the airport in 5 gal. cans then keep it in the drum. Works well and
there isn't any mess.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193160#193160
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
Craig,
I sent you a picasa picture of the fueler I use. Also for a couple hundred
bucks at tractor supply or harbor freight you can buy one of those small
trailers they have to haul your fuel.
Ollie Central FL.
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
> craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my
> airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more
> deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at
> ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple
> of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand
> will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about
> hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the
> whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
>
> How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from
> the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most
> car
> tank filler necks.
>
> -- Craig
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Strategies for car gas at the airport |
I fuel my plane, a Kitfox, from 2.5 gal plastic jerry cans. 2 1/2 gal
containers are easy to lift to the wing.
I do a few things for safety. I remove all the tanks from the car, an
Imprezza hatchback, before filling them. I check all the caps before
loading the full cans into the car. When I get to the pond (floats... what
else I'm in Newfoundland) I prepare the plane for flight before removing the
gas from the car. There are two reasons for doing that. One is the sun
won't heat up the gas while I'm getting the plane ready. The second reason
is a lot of people have no common sense when it comes to smoking around gas.
Some village idiot may try to sue me for putting him in a dangerous
situation. Just before I launch the plane I fuel it up reducing the
possibility of fuel spillage into the pond.
One other thing about the 2.5 gal Jerry cans is I can get five of them into
one of my floats. The other float can take any trouting gear and of course
the catch of the day... one of these days I may get up to 950 lb MTOW.
If you really don't like putting gas in your SUV then try one of those small
motorcycle trailers. Just remember to keep your speed below warp.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Payne
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:21 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Strategies for car gas at the airport
<craig@craigandjean.com>
The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my
airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more
deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at
ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple
of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand
will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about
hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the
whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from
the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car
tank filler necks.
-- Craig
Message 8
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| Subject: | 10% ethanol in 912s |
Anybody got enough experience with 10% ethanol in the 912s to know how
it tolerates it?
Thanks Joe
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Carb sync tools |
Hi Guys,
If you don't want to spend a bunch of money for a carb balance tool here is a picture
that you can make at home. It works very well and is easy to use. At least
use a decent pair of liquid filled gages.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193237#193237
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/carb_sync_150_208.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
One word of caution-- I have heard that gasoline of any octane rating
does to Lexan -- be real careful or you will be replaceing it. Gas cans
up high and a little wind can have disastrous effects. I have not seen
it first hand but have heard a few horror stories.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ollie Washburn
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Strategies for car gas at the airport
Craig,
I sent you a picasa picture of the fueler I use. Also for a couple
hundred bucks at tractor supply or harbor freight you can buy one of
those small trailers they have to haul your fuel.
Ollie Central FL.
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
wrote:
<craig@craigandjean.com>
The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at
my
airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be
more
deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm
looking at
ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a
couple
of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by
hand
will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not
wild about
hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there
is the
whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas
from
the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on
most car
tank filler necks.
-- Craig
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
1) buy a clunker pickup and a 30 gallon transfer tank from the farm
supply place.
2) get the sealed jerry cans to carry inside your suv
3) buy a low cost trailer with the farm store transfer tank and tow
it to your plane.
This is almost as good as a pickup, just more awkward, but a lot less cost.
For any of the above just get a 12v pump so you can transfer the gas
with a hose and regular nozzle. The farm store will have a package
deal with all the necessary stuff except for a battery.
Hand pumps are available but its hard to monitor filling unless you
have a buddy to work the crank.
Proper grounding like the FBO does is necessary for any method.
Tricky to implement with hand held jerry cans.
As you can guess the pickup method is highly preferred.
I hope you can drive to the plane?
Paul
=========
At 11:51 AM 7/16/2008, Craig Payne wrote:
><craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my
>airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more
>deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at
>ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple
>of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand
>will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about
>hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the
>whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
>
>How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from
>the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car
>tank filler necks.
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 10% ethanol in 912s |
Hi Joe,
The 912UL or ULS handles the ethanol just fine. Rotax has in writing up to 5%.
The one thing Bing would like to see is alcohol resistant carb floats. There is
nothing in the Rotax engine that 10% ethanol will hurt. This was straight out
of at least 3 Rotax classes I have taken. I live in a dry climate so humidity
and water absorption isn't as big a concern as it is where it is very humid
and wet. Just check your fuel for water. You can mix 50/50 with 91 octane and
100LL too if you want to help stabilize some. Some areas around the world use
17%-18% and they don't seem to be falling out of the sky. Just use some common
sense as far as high altitude flights and water. It was recommend by Rotax that
if above 8K ft. you might consider using 100LL because you might be more prone
to have a vapor lock and or if you happen to have a lot of water in your fuel
it may want to separate from the fuel in a slug. I worry least about water
in the fuel. Many people fly with 10% ethanol. I have seen vapor lock twice now.
Both were in my plane. The first time I was doing a dynamic prop balance and
running it on the ground with my cowling on and the temps all went pretty high
and then I noticed my fuel pressure dropped off and the engine sputtered,
but did not quit. I popped the cowling and with in a couple of minutes the temps
dropped and the cooler fuel replaced the hotter fuel in the lines and it was
running back to normal. The other time was 3 weeks ago. I flew from my field
to Nogales, Az. The field is about 1500' higher than mine and the outside air
temps was about 95F. I was with another CT aircraft. He was using straight 91
octane. After we ate we were back out in 45 min. Did my run ups and started to
roll. Just as I was pulling the nose wheel off the ground at full throttle the
fuel pressure warning light popped on and the fuel pressure dropped to 1.5psi.
The engine did not sputter. I aborted the take off and went back to the run up
area. I did 3 full throttle run ups and taxis and no problem. By now I had run
enough cooler fuel from the wings through the lines to get rid of any vapor or
hotter fuel. I took off the second time and all was ok.
Although vapor lock usually isn't a problem it can be under hot enough conditions
and/or combined with a higher elevation. It can be used safely, but just know
what to look for or conditions to stay away from.
This is just food for thought and something to use to make an informed decision
to which way you want to go.
I have flown a lot with ethanol and this was the first instances I have seen with
a vapor lock. Both times it was lack of air flow through the cowling and higher
than normal under the cowl temps.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193248#193248
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
Thanks! No problems with shelf-life? How fast do you turn it over?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport
Hi Craig,
I have a 30 gal. drum rated for fuel with a 12 Volt pump on rollers. I bring
the fuel to the airport in 5 gal. cans then keep it in the drum. Works well
and there isn't any mess.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193160#193160
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 10% ethanol in 912s |
I have been using the alcohol gas with no problem in my 912UL.
ivan
phoenix az
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Spencer
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 10% ethanol in 912s
Anybody got enough experience with 10% ethanol in the 912s to know how
it tolerates it?
Thanks Joe
Message 15
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We used the differential manometer with hydraulic oil and it worked great
for synchronizing the carbs on our kitfox 912 ul
Mark Donahue
kitfox 4
Message 16
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| Subject: | Strategies for car gas at the airport |
Thanks, I'll test 100LL and auto gas on a scrap of Lexan.
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Savener
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Strategies for car gas at the airport
One word of caution-- I have heard that gasoline of any octane rating does
to Lexan -- be real careful or you will be replaceing it. Gas cans up high
and a little wind can have disastrous effects. I have not seen it first
hand but have heard a few horror stories.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ollie Washburn <mailto:ollie6a@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Strategies for car gas at the airport
Craig,
I sent you a picasa picture of the fueler I use. Also for a couple hundred
bucks at tractor supply or harbor freight you can buy one of those small
trailers they have to haul your fuel.
Ollie Central FL.
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com> wrote:
<craig@craigandjean.com>
The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my
airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more
deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at
ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple
of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand
will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about
hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the
whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.
How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from
the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car
tank filler necks.
-- Craig
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 10% ethanol in 912s |
Roger, re: vapor lock - does your plane have a fuel return system?
-- Craig
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