Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:42 AM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (paul wilson)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Changing Crush Gasket (paul wilson)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (Roger Lee)
4. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Changing Crush Gasket (Peter Rees)
5. 02:21 PM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (Pete Christensen)
6. 03:26 PM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (Thilo Kind)
7. 04:17 PM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (Roger Lee)
8. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 Ivo In Flight Adjustable Combo. (Hugh)
9. 07:15 PM - Wastegate Adjust (h&jeuropa)
10. 07:24 PM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (paul wilson)
11. 11:54 PM - Re: Changing Crush Gasket (Thilo Kind)
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Subject: | Changing Crush Gasket |
Boy what a gross exaggeration. O\If the bolt is torqued it just wont
come out - period. Every car manufacturer says the same thing as
Rotax. We have been ignoring that forever. What happens is one gets
some weeping. No big deal. Don't worry about it.
Paul
================
At 08:51 PM 7/25/2008, you wrote:
>
>Pete:
>
>Not to my knowledge. The copper crush washers recommended by Rotax should
>always be used. Your life is at stake. The Rotax Engines DO NOT LIKE LOSS OF
>OIL. Use the recommended crush gasket!! You can get them from Lockwood
>Aviation.
>
>Hugh
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Subject: | Re: Changing Crush Gasket |
Now this item is a concern. Add a mechanical gadget that has failure
modes out of your control does present life threatening issues. Not
very likely, for sure, however I would take a torqued bolt as the
safest way to go even with out the crush washer.
Paul
==============
At 09:10 PM 7/25/2008, you wrote:
><craig@craigandjean.com>
>
>You could install one of the quick-drain valves from Saf-air or Curtis and
>be done with it. Aircraft Spruce and California Power Systems both carry
>them:
>
>http://www.rotaxparts.net/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1306
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/safairsump.php
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/curtisquickdv.php (scroll to
>bottom)
>
>-- Craig
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Subject: | Re: Changing Crush Gasket |
Hi Jack,
Just a note.
If you are flying an ELSA then the quick drain valve is certainly not a bad way
to go. If you are SLSA you need an approval from the MFG. I don't believe Rotax
sanctions the quick drain valve. We have tried to get them in use for the Flight
Design CT, but the FD won't sign off on it because Rotax wouldn't. If you
are registered ELSA you can do anything you want. That being said Rotax has
it's own warranty items they like or dislike.
This is one of those discussions that you have to personally decide.
The book says new crush washer. The experience in the field says it is ok to reuse
it a few times. The majority don't change out the crush washer and don't have
any problems.
Up to you now to decide.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195054#195054
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Subject: | Re: Changing Crush Gasket |
Why not just buy a new one? At UK fuel prices, if you fun on Mogas,
you're going to burn about 900GBP of fuel per oil change (based on
15l/h, 50hr service and 1.20GBP per litre (ocuh!)) - I think that the
washers are about 1GBP or less. Same goes with the oil filter - why try
and find an alternative to the Rotax part - its only about 5GBP or so -
is your engine / life really worth risking to save 6GBP???
Peter
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Subject: | Re: Changing Crush Gasket |
Jack,
That's exactly what I did. I just removed the whole can and I found out
that there is NO drain plug on my Kitfox III. So that's what I had to
do. Next time I think I'll just suck out all of the oil from the
reservoir through the pickup line and call it good. I'll probably
shorten the oil change time to make up for not getting all the oil.
Thanks to all who responded!
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
Kitfox III SN 1000, 912ul
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Kuehn
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Changing Crush Gasket
I don't even remove the plug any more. I just remove the whole can
from the airplane and take the top off, dump out the old oil and clean
everything up as clean as new. Depends on your installation though.
It's actually easier for me to remove the entire sump than to stand on
my head and remove the darn plug. The can needs a good cleaning anyway.
Jack
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 5:19 PM, peteohms
<apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
I'm about to do my first oil change on my 912ul. Instructions call
for changing the crush gasket. Is there a generic gasket available at
local auto parts stores?
Pete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194969#194969
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Subject: | Changing Crush Gasket |
Hi Paul,
that statement is not entirely correct. A bolt will come out, even, when
properly torqued - especially at airplanes due to the vibrations. Torquing
only makes sure, that the bolt is loaded with the proper tension required
for the connection. To avoid loosening of a bolt, several methods are
available such as safety wiring, stop nuts, Locktite, etc. The oil release
bolt should be safety wired - otherwise the bolt will come loose eventually.
Not a good in-flight experience.
The function of the crush washer is to seal the opening. Threats / bolts
provide no seals, so liquids - in this case oil - will leak. The crush
washer is made from copper. The soft copper metal is pressed by the bolt to
the engine house. Due to the pressure the surface of the copper washer
deforms to comply with the surface of the bolt and the engine housing,
respectively, and hence acts as a seal. Since the surface is deformed after
one use, a new washer should be used whenever the bolt was removed.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
Zodiac CH 601 HDS with Rotax 912 flying
RV 8A under construction
_____
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Samstag, 26. Juli 2008 14:32
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Changing Crush Gasket
Boy what a gross exaggeration. O\If the bolt is torqued it just wont come
out - period. Every car manufacturer says the same thing as Rotax. We have
been ignoring that forever. What happens is one gets some weeping. No big
deal. Don't worry about it.
Paul
================
At 08:51 PM 7/25/2008, you wrote:
Pete:
Not to my knowledge. The copper crush washers recommended by Rotax should
always be used. Your life is at stake. The Rotax Engines DO NOT LIKE LOSS OF
OIL. Use the recommended crush gasket!! You can get them from Lockwood
Aviation.
Hugh
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Changing Crush Gasket |
I knew this was going to be a hot topic.
The drain screw gets 18.5 ft/lbs or 222in/lbs of torque.
Whether you use the old one or a new one it needs to be safety wired.
We could discuss topics like these for days and it will eventually come down to
just you to determine "Do I like Ford's or do I like Chevy's.
You can't go wrong if you follow the book.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195097#195097
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Ivo In Flight Adjustable Combo. |
Rocky:
What do you mean by "you have to shape it yourself"?
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912 UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RockyRim
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:57 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 912 Ivo In Flight Adjustable Combo.
Craig,
I found my receipt for the 3M Scotch film. I got it from SRI Racing
and it's really quite a cheap way to buy it. But you have to shape it
yourself. This is 8 mil instead of 6 mil. which I'm excited about trying.
If you want to wait, I'm finishing up my annual condition inspection and
will be the test dummy for this 8mil tape before you buy. I don't expect
any surprises, I believe it will protect a little better.
Rocky
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194707#194707
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Subject: | Wastegate Adjust |
I have recently reinstalled my 914 on my Europa. It is also equipped with an Airmaster
prop. I flew this setup for about 60 hours with no problems. Took it
all apart to repair ground loop damage. I carefully measured the position of
the Bowden cable on the wastegate prior to disassembly and reset it the same.
However, I can not get full power from the engine. When I go to 115% throttle,
I get about 5600 rpm and 32 inHg man press. I can adjust the rpm with the
prop pitch stops, but the man press is still low. I have run the tlr46 monitor
program and the throttle percentages are correct. So is the tach. I think
I noticed that the servo position started at 100% (I think that means full closed),
then varied down around 40% or 50% and then went to 100% at full throttle.
This seems reasonable.
I'm thinking the wastegate is not completely closed when the servo thinks it is
and that should be an adjustment of the Bowden cable. The MM isn't too clear.
Looking at section 78-00-00/19, 20 & 21. I think I should power up the TCU,
let it go thru it's start cycle and then shut off the power to it. Then disconnect
the spring (1) and the Bowden cable and see if the wastegate can be closed
more (closed is clockwise direction when looking from the bottom of the engine
at the turbo, correct?). If so, adjust the cable to close it completely.
Does this make sense? Anyone got other ideas? Better way to properly adjust the
wastegate?
Thank you.
Jim Butcher
Europa N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195122#195122
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Subject: | Changing Crush Gasket |
You are repeating what all manufacturers say. In
the real world its no big deal. Our race trucks
seldom get a new washer and when we do its never
copper its dead soft aluminum. Never had a leak
an never heard of the bolt falling out. Been
doing this to many years and so we know its no
sweat. Bolts fall out at the quick lube place
because they are installed finger tight.
If you think the vibration is bad in an airplane
check out the vibration on an off road race
truck. We lockwire on a lot of fasteners but the drain bolt is just torqued.
Paul
===============
At 04:24 PM 7/26/2008, you wrote:
>Hi Paul,
>
>that statement is not entirely correct. A bolt
>will come out, even, when properly torqued '
>especially at airplanes due to the vibrations.
>Torquing only makes sure, that the bolt is
>loaded with the proper tension required for the
>connection. To avoid loosening of a bolt,
>several methods are available such as safety
>wiring, stop nuts, Locktite, etc. The oil
>release bolt should be safety wired ' otherwise
>the bolt will come loose eventually. Not a good in-flight experience.
>
>The function of the crush washer is to seal the
>opening. Threats / bolts provide no seals, so
>liquids ' in this case oil ' will leak. The
>crush washer is made from copper. The soft
>copper metal is pressed by the bolt to the
>engine house. Due to the pressure the surface of
>the copper washer deforms to comply with the
>surface of the bolt and the engine housing,
>respectively, and hence acts as a seal. Since
>the surface is deformed after one use, a new
>washer should be used whenever the bolt was removed.
>
>Best regards
>
>Thilo Kind
>Zodiac CH 601 HDS with Rotax 912 flying
>RV 8A under construction
>
>
>----------
>From:
>owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
>Sent: Samstag, 26. Juli 2008 14:32
>To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Changing Crush Gasket
>
>Boy what a gross exaggeration. O\If the bolt is
>torqued it just wont come out - period. Every
>car manufacturer says the same thing as Rotax.
>We have been ignoring that forever. What happens
>is one gets some weeping. No big deal. Don't worry about it.
>Paul
>================
>At 08:51 PM 7/25/2008, you wrote:
>
>
>Pete:
>
>Not to my knowledge. The copper crush washers recommended by Rotax should
>always be used. Your life is at stake. The Rotax Engines DO NOT LIKE LOSS
OF
>OIL. Use the recommended crush gasket!! You can get them from Lockwood
>Aviation.
>
>Hugh
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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Subject: | Changing Crush Gasket |
Hi Paul,
on a car it's not a big deal, because the vibrations are different (not
uniform) due to always changing RPM setting and induced non-uniform
vibrations from the un-even road. This reduces the tendency for bolts to
loosen. Airplanes run at almost constant RPM settings, which results in a
very uniform vibration. Fasteners will definitely come loose and therefore
should be properly secured.
There are two reasons for the replacement of the crush washer: the
deformation of the surface after first use and work hardening of the copper
as well as many aluminium alloys after exposure to vibrations. This can
result is breaking of the crush washer. That's why good practice dictates to
replace the crush washer every time.
I admit, that in a car both the safety-wiring of the bolt and the
replacement of the crush washer could be overkill - worst that can happen to
you is that the car stops at the shoulder of the raod. In an airplane, this
is an entirely different story. That's why all the manufacturers as well as
the FAA recommend / insist on those measures. It is definetly not a money
making deal of manufacturers - they are not make a lot of money on a piece
of safety wire and a copper washer..
Thilo Kind
_____
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Sonntag, 27. Juli 2008 03:31
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Changing Crush Gasket
You are repeating what all manufacturers say. In the real world its no big
deal. Our race trucks seldom get a new washer and when we do its never
copper its dead soft aluminum. Never had a leak an never heard of the bolt
falling out. Been doing this to many years and so we know its no sweat.
Bolts fall out at the quick lube place because they are installed finger
tight.
If you think the vibration is bad in an airplane check out the vibration on
an off road race truck. We lockwire on a lot of fasteners but the drain bolt
is just torqued.
Paul
===============
At 04:24 PM 7/26/2008, you wrote:
Hi Paul,
that statement is not entirely correct. A bolt will come out, even, when
properly torqued - especially at airplanes due to the vibrations. Torquing
only makes sure, that the bolt is loaded with the proper tension required
for the connection. To avoid loosening of a bolt, several methods are
available such as safety wiring, stop nuts, Locktite, etc. The oil release
bolt should be safety wired - otherwise the bolt will come loose eventually.
Not a good in-flight experience.
The function of the crush washer is to seal the opening. Threats / bolts
provide no seals, so liquids - in this case oil - will leak. The crush
washer is made from copper. The soft copper metal is pressed by the bolt to
the engine house. Due to the pressure the surface of the copper washer
deforms to comply with the surface of the bolt and the engine housing,
respectively, and hence acts as a seal. Since the surface is deformed after
one use, a new washer should be used whenever the bolt was removed.
Best regards
Thilo Kind
Zodiac CH 601 HDS with Rotax 912 flying
RV 8A under construction
_____
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com>
mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Samstag, 26. Juli 2008 14:32
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Changing Crush Gasket
Boy what a gross exaggeration. O\If the bolt is torqued it just wont come
out - period. Every car manufacturer says the same thing as Rotax. We have
been ignoring that forever. What happens is one gets some weeping. No big
deal. Don't worry about it.
Paul
================
At 08:51 PM 7/25/2008, you wrote:
Pete:
Not to my knowledge. The copper crush washers recommended by Rotax should
always be used. Your life is at stake. The Rotax Engines DO NOT LIKE LOSS OF
OIL. Use the recommended crush gasket!! You can get them from Lockwood
Aviation.
Hugh
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