Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Re: Fuel Return line 912 ULS (Robert C Harrison)
2. 02:19 AM - FW: Fuel Return line 912 ULS (Robert C Harrison)
3. 05:34 PM - 91 octane and time to be heard (Roger Lee)
4. 05:46 PM - Re: 91 octane and time to be heard (Bob Comperini)
5. 07:04 PM - Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard (Dave)
6. 09:56 PM - Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel Return line 912 ULS |
Hi! Phil
The LAA will require that all fuel lines to the engine are solely
dedicated to the engine, IOW there must be no other service fuel lines
joining. WE with Europa Aircraft have water drain pipes also connected
to our tanks, in my case by a special combined adapter into the
tank(produced by Graham Singleton (who I have copied in to this mailing)
We utilize two connections on the Europa Tank since it is a saddle tank
(one side being reserve)so fuel return is connected to the water drain
side on the reserve side and our visual sight gauge being connected to
the other side water drain pipe. The necessity for a return side depends
on the time "yet to be used fuel" sits in the engine compartment gaining
heat before getting to the carbs. and of course ambient temperatures.
Also I note that you are fitting a GASCOLATOR to the engine side of the
firewall ...this is also a fuel delivery pause place where the fuel gets
to heat up prior to getting to the carbs. My installation has fire stop
insulation lagging through which all the fuel pipes are routed in the
engine compartment this also reduces the fuel temperature increase.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa c/w Rotax 914 and Intercooler.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
philip smith
Sent: 06 August 2008 00:45
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Fuel Return line 912 ULS
I know that the subject has been broached before but still in a quandry
about the " fuel return line " fitting on the fuel manifold of my 912
ULS. The Rotax drawing says something like " zum fuel tank " which in
english translates to to fuel tank.
In previous discussion I've been advised that the return line is not
necessary and another response that " the fuel line was plumbed into the
line from the tank" - I sure don't want to try to attach a fitting to
the tank at this point as the tanks are in the wings.
I an going to install a gascolator on the engine side of the fire wall
which has a 1/4 npt hole used for a primer attachment that I could use
to run the return line back to the system.
Anybody have any thoughts and or suggestions on this routing? Jon what
are your thoughts on this arraignment? Who could I contact about this
at Rotax?
Phil
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel Return line 912 ULS |
Hi! Philip/all
Graham Singleton has highlighted another item to consider concerning
fuel heat up ....of course not applicable on my 914 installation since
the pumps are both electrical but his point is valid for mechanical
pumps.
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Singleton [mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com]
Sent: 06 August 2008 09:43
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Fuel Return line 912 ULS
Bob
you wrote; " the necessity for a return side depends on the time "yet
to be used fuel" sits in the engine compartment gaining heat before
getting to the carbs. and of course ambient temperatures."
There's another more important way the fuel gets hot; the mechanical
fuel pump is heated up by the hot oil in the gearbox and in my
experience can get to over 60 deg C, even in UK. At low rates of flow
the fuel will be getting heated by the pump itself
Graham
Message 3
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| Subject: | 91 octane and time to be heard |
If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is going.
This effects us all even in other countries because one tends to follow the other
at some point.
If you are tired of someone saying we can't have 91 octane, read on. It's time
to pick a side and take 5 minutes to email. Our lives as people are good because
someone didn't just say ok. Some took the time to make change and made it better
for all of us. If we choose to sit on the sideline and just go along then
we deserve what we get. I would implore all to take a minute and email these
two people and any other fuel administrator in other companies. I will post on
as many aviation websites as possible and I would you all to pick a side and
stand up to be heard and maybe, just maybe we might effect change. I for one
don't want to roll over. You are about to read a bulletin about the use of Chevron
ground fuel verses aviation fuel. Then I have a response.
Don't sit back and pick my memo apart, use that time to write your own and be heard.
Post this on all your aviation websites. Let them hear a nation wide voice.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197006#197006
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2008_04_2008_04_bulletin_2008_04_chevron_position_autogas_for_aviation_use_238.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ryan_memo_135.doc
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 91 octane and time to be heard |
On 05:34 PM 8/6/2008, Roger Lee wrote:
>If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is going.
Good stuff Roger,
I'll bet this is another CYA move on the part of Chevron, especially since THEY
sold contaminated 100LL in the Sacramento area back in 1994. I seem to recall
that they paid for a lot of engine inspections after that.
Info here:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/1994/wp9410.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5553/is_199406/ai_n22297069
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/aircraft/alerts/9408alt.txt
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard |
I'm confused, are you agreeing with Chevron or want Auto fuel made available
to all of the aviation community? Do you agree with the implication that
any 91 octane unleaded fuel (automotive based) Chevron supplies to an
airfield is contaminated, cross blended, or have an ethanol content and
octane rating that they cannot document? Are you against refueling an
aircraft with gas purchased at the corner station for the reasons stated by
Chevron, or believe it would be different in the tank at the airport?
Myself, I always try to run 91 unleaded auto gas in my Rotax 912 ULS because
it's better for the engine. I wish EVERY airport carried 91 auto fuel. I
have personally seen the amount of lead sludge that accumulates in both
Lycoming and Rotax engines running 100LL. I change oil at 20 hrs and
replace plugs after extended periods of using the 100LL. On my trip through
the Dakotas, Montana and Wyoming all I could get at an airport was 100LL. I
currently use stated 10% ethanol blended fuel because that's what is
available and it runs just fine. I'd like it better without the ethanol,
but only because I think the ethanol blending is a bunch of baloney! Roger,
I'll be headed your way this fall. Is the Auto fuel available in Arizona?
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger
Lee
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 7:34 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard
If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is
going.
This effects us all even in other countries because one tends to follow the
other at some point.
If you are tired of someone saying we can't have 91 octane, read on. It's
time to pick a side and take 5 minutes to email. Our lives as people are
good because someone didn't just say ok. Some took the time to make change
and made it better for all of us. If we choose to sit on the sideline and
just go along then we deserve what we get. I would implore all to take a
minute and email these two people and any other fuel administrator in other
companies. I will post on as many aviation websites as possible and I would
you all to pick a side and stand up to be heard and maybe, just maybe we
might effect change. I for one don't want to roll over. You are about to
read a bulletin about the use of Chevron ground fuel verses aviation fuel.
Then I have a response.
Don't sit back and pick my memo apart, use that time to write your own and
be heard. Post this on all your aviation websites. Let them hear a nation
wide voice.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197006#197006
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2008_04_2008_04_bulletin_2008_04_chevron_
position_autogas_for_aviation_use_238.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ryan_memo_135.doc
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard |
Hi Dave,
I absolutely want 91 Octane available. Chevron's stance is they refuse to entertain
the idea of aircraft using any of their ground based fuel. They are so foolish
as to think people don't buy their fuel and use it form a gas station. Some
airports in the country actually carry Chevron mogas, but it is usually 87
octane. A few FBO's are just starting to carry the 91 octane. I guess they think
if it's not at the airport no one uses their fuel? I have been using 91 octane
in three Rotax engines over the years. Yes I have and do at times use 10%
ethanol 91 octane. I would like to see 91 octane offered at airports and or some
gas stations.
In some of my flying in hotter weather and 3 other people I know, we are having
fuel pressure problems that may be related to the different vapor pressures in
the ethanol fuel, due to high under the cowl temps. I am in the process of testing
as we speak. We had ethanol free fuel here, but it is getting harder to
find.
This is a nation wide issue and I would hope that pilots just don't sit and hope
the situation will change without their voice. It is getting worse, not better
at this point in time. That's why I am hoping that aviators around the country
will take just 5 minutes and email some of these people.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197068#197068
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