Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:30 AM - Re: Use of ethanol blended autogas (Peter Thomson)
2. 04:46 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest (Thom Riddle)
3. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure (paul wilson)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: Alky blend and power (paul wilson)
5. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure (Walstroom (Isbeschikbaar))
6. 07:35 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest (Roger Lee)
7. 07:50 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest (Thom Riddle)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest (Thom Riddle)
9. 08:28 AM - Re: Alky blend and power (Thom Riddle)
10. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure (Ollie Washburn)
11. 12:47 PM - Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure (mjhamm01)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Use of ethanol blended autogas |
I use E10 in my 200 hr 912ULS in CH701 from CZAW, as very hard to find
premium autogas anymore where I live.
I have absolutley no worries about this, and haven't noticed any drop
in power, or change in mpg.
I inspect bowl and floats at 50 hours and see no degradation. (If the
bowl is going to be eaten away it is going to take some time...) For
those concerned, Bing sell additive and alcohol resistant float and
bowl kit. Bing say this is all yhayt needs changing.
I keep tanks full to avoid any condensation.
I checked with CZAW who say their fuel lines resistant.
Rotax say OK up to 8000 feet and I've done time at 8500 with no effect.
I'm always conscious of vapour lock but never had a problem.
I live and fly in 33 deg C and 95 percent RH most of the year.
The only two negative comments I've seen on boards have been the one
from Brasil which said ethanol was why so many planes fall from sky
there, and the comment about vapour lock from a hot fuel pump.
Peter
CH701 SP fm CZAW
Rotax 912ULS
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest |
Gasoline contains approximately 116,000 BTU of energy per US Gallon.
Ethanol contains approximately 76,000 BTU of energy per US Gallon.
A blend of 8% ethanol with 92% gasoline would result in a fuel that contains approximately
112,800 BTU per US Gallon, which is about 2.8% less energy content
than pure gasoline, which means one could expect about 2.8% less power available
with this blend compared to gasoline without the ethanol.
Ethanol increases octane but does NOT add power, it reduces power available from
the fuel. Power and Octane are unrelated as long as the octane of the fuel is
adequate to prevent detonation. If the engine is designed to take advantage
of a higher octane (higher compression, different cam and ignition timing, perhaps)
then it might not suffer a loss of power with the ethanol laced gasoline.
Otherwise, some power loss from addition of ethanol is a given. You may not
be able to notice a 2.8% drop in power but a dynamometer will.
--------
Thom Riddle
CFI-SP
Power Plant Mechanic
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist.
George Carlin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0870#200870
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure |
Its true that a standard VOM cannot accurately measure small
resistance. A specialized meter needs to be used that measures micro ohms.
Paul
=============
At 10:41 PM 8/26/2008, you wrote:
>
>Tommy,
>
>try taking an alligator clip and wire and hooking up one to the
>ground on the gauge and hooking up to some other ground other than
>the one you are using now for the gauge. This will only take a few
>minutes. Let me know what happens. Oh, I forgot run the engine after
>this new ground is hooked up. I had the same issue a few months back
>and played with it for 2 hours. My meter said I had a good ground,
>but it ended up being a partial ground.
>
>--------
>Roger Lee
>Tucson, Az.
>Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
>Rotax Service Center
>520-574-1080
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0846#200846
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alky blend and power |
Thom,
Great theory, and I do not challenge what you
wrote. In real life the dyno tests show the alky
blend has more power and increased gallons of
fuel consumed. The testing was for auto engines
designed for gasoline. I agree that at low
mixtures the result is hardly detectable.
If you want to know the reasons you need to dig
harder to explain why the theory does not work
out. I believe the test results and do not need more info.
Paul
===========
At 05:45 AM 8/27/2008, you wrote:
>
>Gasoline contains approximately 116,000 BTU of energy per US Gallon.
>Ethanol contains approximately 76,000 BTU of energy per US Gallon.
>
>A blend of 8% ethanol with 92% gasoline would
>result in a fuel that contains approximately
>112,800 BTU per US Gallon, which is about 2.8%
>less energy content than pure gasoline, which
>means one could expect about 2.8% less power
>available with this blend compared to gasoline without the ethanol.
>
>Ethanol increases octane but does NOT add power,
>it reduces power available from the fuel. Power
>and Octane are unrelated as long as the octane
>of the fuel is adequate to prevent detonation.
>If the engine is designed to take advantage of a
>higher octane (higher compression, different cam
>and ignition timing, perhaps) then it might not
>suffer a loss of power with the ethanol laced
>gasoline. Otherwise, some power loss from
>addition of ethanol is a given. You may not be
>able to notice a 2.8% drop in power but a dynamometer will.
>
>--------
>Thom Riddle
>CFI-SP
>Power Plant Mechanic
>N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
>N197BG FS1/447
>--------------------
>Scratch any cynic, he said, and
>youll find a disappointed idealist.
>George Carlin
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0870#200870
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure |
We do maintenance on Rotax en we often have to change the VDO pres. sender.
A few month's ago the 3rd NEW sender worked well !
Walstroom Netherlands
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:29 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure
> <twalker@cableone.net>
>
> Regarding my oil pressure issue. I'm in the middle of the first annual
> here's what I've done to date:
>
> With the Rotax Pressure Sender and a VDO gauge,
> Oil Pressure at start up was 55 PSI
> Cruise pressure was 30-35 PSI
>
> 1. I replaced the pressure sender with one from another 912 I have. No
> Joy.
>
> 2. I swapped the VDO gauge. Still No Joy.
>
> 3. I replaced the wire from the sending unit to the VDO gauge. Need I
> say?
>
> 4. Today I removed the sending unit and temporarily hooked up a
> mechanical pressure gauge. Upon start up the oil pressure went to 67-68
> PSI. I let the engine run for a couple of minutes at 1800 RPM and then
> pushed the throttle in to about 3000 RPM. The oil pressure stayed above
> 60 PSI.
>
> So, I am thinking that either there is an incompatibility with my sending
> unit and gauge, or the problem lies elsewhere. I suppose the mechanical
> gauge could be wrong, but really? I doubt it. It's sort of like changing
> parts till you get the answer you want, isn't it.... :)
>
> So, have any of you switched to a mechanical gauge for your 912? I would
> prefer an electric gauge because of the problems with running a tube into
> the cockpit. I would think that a weak point would be the flared fitting
> at the connection to the block.
>
> I am open to any suggestions.
>
> I appreciate your thoughts.
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
> Do Archive
>
> [quote="Tommy Walker"]Thanks folks, I got a mechanical gauge and all the
> plumbing. I?Tm going to hook it up this week and compare pressure
> readings.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Tommy Walker in Alabama
> N8701
> Do Not Archive
>
>> [b]
>
>
> --------
> Tommy Walker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0765#200765
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest |
Hi All,
91 octane with ethanol verses 100LL is quickly becoming a choice for everyone.
Some have been using it for many years. Different places in the world have been
using ethanol blends up to 20% or more without any real issues. We had a fuel
station down the road 8 miles from our airport and he finally switched to ethanol.
Many of us went down to the service station and ask that he switch back.
He said it cost him 12 cents more for the 91 octane without ethanol. He took
a week to think about it then said he would go back to ethanol free 91 because
he sells very little to the autos and sells the bulk of 91 to the aircraft people.
If you test a lot of service stations 91 fuel it usually test out at 5%, but of
course some are up to the 10%. If given a choice I would use ethanol over 100LL
any day. 100LL is far more damaging to your engine. The 10% ethanol or below
won't hurt the 912 and the talks about vapor lock and phase separation is extremely
slim. Many thousands of people use ethanol in aviation. I agree with Tom
that the power loss is so small most people would not really even know.
You should not store 91 octane for more than 4 weeks. It will start to evaporate
and lose its properties. Don't store it in the wings all winter.
Some people do recommend blending 100LL with 91 with ethanol. This works just fine
and does stabilize the 91. I Rotax classes they recommend using 100LL over
8K', but many people do fly without any issues at much higher altitudes. If you
use straight 100LL you should be using a lead scavenger like TCP or Decalin.
Decalin has less harsh chemicals, less corrosive and is safer to handle.
The final choice to use either fuel is up to each person, but there is a lot of
real time use of 91 with ethanol in 912's without any issues. Do make sure that
the other components of your fuel system can use the ethanol. i.e. a plastic
fuel filter. Things like this may not hold up as well to the ethanol. Just take
a few minutes and double check the rest of your fuel system. The Rotax 912
won't care.
If using 100LL a good semi synthetic oil like the Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 is a
good choice and is still a good choice when using 91.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0905#200905
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest |
Speaking of other fuel system components, I contacted Saint Gobain, the manufacturer
of Tygon fuel lines to see if their recommended Tygon formula F-4040A flexible
yellow translucent line was ethanol tolerant. My question was specific
to E10 gasoline and they said that there is no porblem at all using this particular
Tygon formulation with E10. They did not say about higher concentrations
of ethanol, probably because asked specifically about E10.
Their are many different Tygon formulations so not all of them are gasoline and/or
ethanol tolerant. Here is a website to this particular Tygon product.
http://tinyurl.com/mpyet
If I need to change fuel lines this is what I intend to use because it is translucent,
flexible down to -35 degrees F, lightweight and E10 tolerant.
You can search their other products at
http://www.tygon.com/
--------
Thom Riddle
CFI-SP
Power Plant Mechanic
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist.
George Carlin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0909#200909
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest |
Ooops! I forgot something rather important about the Tygon F-4040A. It is not heat
tolerant beyond 165 degrees F so it is not suitable for hot cowled engine
areas.
--------
Thom Riddle
CFI-SP
Power Plant Mechanic
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist.
George Carlin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0912#200912
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alky blend and power |
Paul,
Are you saying that the fuel with less energy content produces more power in engines
designed for pure gasoline and not modified to take advantage of the higher
octane due to the ethanol addition?
This exceeds my imaginative abilities so please point me to the study(ies) that
demonstrate this. I'm easily convinced if scientific studies prove this. Otherwise
I have to fall back on logic.
I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to learn about this counterintuitive
phenomenon.
--------
Thom Riddle
CFI-SP
Power Plant Mechanic
N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL
N197BG FS1/447
--------------------
Scratch any cynic, he said, and youll find a disappointed idealist.
George Carlin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0919#200919
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure |
A sender from GRT works fine and only costs $35 versus $258 from
Lockwood/last catolog.
Ollie
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Walstroom (Isbeschikbaar) <
walstroom@isbeschikbaar.nl> wrote:
> walstroom@isbeschikbaar.nl>
>
> We do maintenance on Rotax en we often have to change the VDO pres. sende
r.
> A few month's ago the 3rd NEW sender worked well !
> Walstroom Netherlands
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tommy Walker" <twalker@cableone.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:29 AM
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure
>
>> twalker@cableone.net>
>>
>> Regarding my oil pressure issue. I'm in the middle of the first annual
>> here's what I've done to date:
>>
>> With the Rotax Pressure Sender and a VDO gauge,
>> Oil Pressure at start up was 55 PSI
>> Cruise pressure was 30-35 PSI
>>
>> 1. I replaced the pressure sender with one from another 912 I have. No
>> Joy.
>>
>> 2. I swapped the VDO gauge. Still No Joy.
>>
>> 3. I replaced the wire from the sending unit to the VDO gauge. Need I
>> say?
>>
>> 4. Today I removed the sending unit and temporarily hooked up a
>> mechanical pressure gauge. Upon start up the oil pressure went to 67-68
>> PSI. I let the engine run for a couple of minutes at 1800 RPM and then
>> pushed the throttle in to about 3000 RPM. The oil pressure stayed above
60
>> PSI.
>>
>> So, I am thinking that either there is an incompatibility with my sendin
g
>> unit and gauge, or the problem lies elsewhere. I suppose the mechanical
>> gauge could be wrong, but really? I doubt it. It's sort of like changi
ng
>> parts till you get the answer you want, isn't it.... :)
>>
>> So, have any of you switched to a mechanical gauge for your 912? I woul
d
>> prefer an electric gauge because of the problems with running a tube int
o
>> the cockpit. I would think that a weak point would be the flared fittin
g at
>> the connection to the block.
>>
>> I am open to any suggestions.
>>
>> I appreciate your thoughts.
>>
>> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>> Do Archive
>>
>> [quote="Tommy Walker"]Thanks folks, I got a mechanical gauge and all t
he
>> plumbing. I?Tm going to hook it up this week and compare pressure
>> readings.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Tommy Walker in Alabama
>> N8701
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>> [b]
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Tommy Walker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0765#200765
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Low Oil Pressure....High Oil Pressure |
Tommy,
You might check to make sure that the resistance range for oil pressure
for the pressure sender and VDO gauge are a perfect match.
I did encounter a slight difference with a fuel pressure application
(in a 914) using a JPI Gauge and a VDO sender. Adding a 5 to
10 ohm resister in series from either the sender to the ground wire or
the sender to the Gauge would slightly boost pressure readings. In the end, I
elected to leave out the resisters and just go with a slightly lower reading.
Additionally, it may be possible that some of your difference in high/low oil pressure
readings may be due to a slightly lower system voltage at or after startup
in comparison with higher RPM's and more output from the
altenator. Perhaps someone could comment on that possibility.
.... Marv Hamm
=========
Tommy Walker wrote:
> Regarding my oil pressure issue. I'm in the middle of the first annual here's
what I've done to date:
>
> With the Rotax Pressure Sender and a VDO gauge,
> Oil Pressure at start up was 55 PSI
> Cruise pressure was 30-35 PSI
>
> > [b]
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0981#200981
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