---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/12/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:48 AM - Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal (Robert Borger) 3. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically (Graham Singleton) 4. 10:16 AM - Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal (Roger Lee) 5. 10:19 AM - Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically (Roger Lee) 6. 10:23 AM - Rotax / Kodiak and FAA (Roger Lee) 7. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 8. 07:54 PM - Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically (Roger Lee) 9. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:14 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal Hugh, I just wanted to mention another instrument for pneumatically balancing the Bing carbs. I use a Twin Max balancer. It is used primarily for BMW motorcycles and uses a single needle on a gauge to show the carb balance (no more bouncing needles) It is drop dead simple and extremely accurate. I have owned mine for over a year and have used it many times. No way will I go back to the old method. You could do an online search to find one. I found mine on EBAY. Dick Maddux Rotax 912UL Pensacola,Fl **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. The NEW ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:03 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal Hugh, You beat me to it! I agree completely. I thought my 914 ran smoothly when I first started it. A friend who was working with me said that the carbs didn't need balancing. I did it anyway just for the experience and to see what happened. My goodness! It is so smooth now you could put a full glass of water on the radiator cap and it'd hardly wiggle. The Twin Max is THE way to go for carb balance on a 9xx engine. I have no stake in Twin Max. Just my 2=A2 from my experience, send any flames to the bit bucket. Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (99.999% done) Essentially complete. Running Tests & Final Inspections. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Dec 12, 2008, at 7:47, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > Hugh, > I just wanted to mention another instrument for pneumatically > balancing the Bing carbs. I use a Twin Max balancer. It is used > primarily for BMW motorcycles and uses a single needle on a gauge to > show the carb balance (no more bouncing needles) It is drop dead > simple and extremely accurate. I have owned mine for over a year and > have used it many times. No way will I go back to the old method. > You could do an online search to find one. I found mine on EBAY. > Dick Maddux > Rotax 912UL > Pensacola,Fl ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:27 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Roger Lee wrote: > > Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just trying to be more clear and I guess I muddied up the water. Forget I used the word lean out as that usually pertains to adjusting the jets or needles. > > Just move the carb throttle lever or bowden cable so it gets less fuel. The vacuum guage with the lower vacuum number is getting more fuel (pulling less vacuum). Roger Moving the throttle lever doesn't alter the mixture, lower vacuum means more air as well as more fuel. Mixture should be constant. Just my two cents of clarification to add Graham ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:51 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal From: "Roger Lee" An electronic "Syncromate" balancer is another good tool for carb balancing. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219083#219083 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:41 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically From: "Roger Lee" Hi Graham, Yeah, sorry about that. I did muddy the waters when I made a comment about mixture and lean. I should have explained it differently. I thought it would be more clear, but was just the opposite. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219084#219084 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:24 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Rotax / Kodiak and FAA From: "Roger Lee" Kodiak (main Rotax distributor) is making some sweeping changes that will effect a lot of maint individuals. This is driven by an FAA survey/audit around the nation and with MFG's to help come in-line more with the ASTM standards. They are trying to keep a tighter rein on maint quality control of their engines as well as an idea as to who is working on them and to insure they are qualified. So of these maint people who are not current, not taken and updated class or only have the service class may be left behind if they don't get more involved with classes, quality control and possibly tooling. Someone is trying to work and help the little guy on the tooling aspect, but has not been decided yet. I have just heard that Rotax has as low as 80%+ of the LSA and light plane market and as high as 92% with the USA it's top buyer. Rotax really only has two competitors and they really aren't a threat. Rotax distributors are now supposed to tell someone who calls up looking for a service person of only the Rotax QUALIFIED people and that means people that have the right type of service rating for the work to be done and someone who is up to date with schooling and with the proper tools. Just a note as to what the different ratings from Rotax mean. By the way within the next two weeks Rotax is going to have anyone claiming to be a repair center or service facility fill out some paperwork. They want you to check off all the Rotax tools you have, sign a form of Rules/Regs. as to how you will maint and conduct business with their engine and under the Rotax name and they are even telling people they will come out and inspect some of the so called repair stations. You will have to take an update class once every two years and I think there was another paper to sign, but I can't quite remember what it was. (old age setting in ) If you have the "Service" rating you can drain the oil, do an inspection, balance the carbs type things. You are not allowed to remove any components like a fuel pump or gearbox or any thing else. "Line" maint rated, You can now remove components off the engine that was covered in that particular Rotax class. It would cover what is in the Line Maint Manual. These items are fairly general in nature and very light maint., more inspection type items with some testing included. This is mainly for small engine components that you might find in a general maint inspection like a hose. For example. You can remove the carbs for the 200 hr. rebuild, but you can't do the work because the carb rebuild was taught in the "Heavy maint" class. You would have to send them out or find a guy that is heavy maint rated to do the carb rebuild. You could not remove the heads or rebuild the gearbox like when Rotax recalled all those gearboxes to be redone. You could not take the gearbox off and do an inspection. This was taught in the Heavy Maint class. The "Heavy" Maint group can do everything right down to, but not including an overhaul. This person can remove all the components, do inspections of the components, remove the heads and cylinders or test components, but can not do an overhaul. He can do a gearbox inspection after a prop strike, pull the heads for a valve job, ect... The "Overhaul" group of which there is darn few around and usually only the distributors. It used to be that a Rotax 912ULS total overhaul (rebuilt engine) was about $8K, but I heard yesterday that it is now about 70% of the cost of a new engine. That makes it around $12.5K with a new engine in the $18K range. This is really no difference than what the GA aircraft do now. Rotax is trying to come in and be more main stream, professional and initiate better quality control. This will not only affect individuals, but many LSA aircraft MFG's that will need new Rotax schooling for their personnel. This will do two things. Unfortunately many people will not comply and be out of the SLSA maint and for some it will spur them onward. I think it will have a bigger negative effect at first then come back around after a while. I do hope after hearing some of the new changes that some of the distributors can change Rotax's mind on a few details so as not to put overt pressure on the Rotax maint. people. It is a new program and subject to some change I hope. _________________ -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219087#219087 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Roger Curiosity question, do you ever richen or lean the pilot air screws? What input and parameters do you use for adjustment? I have not yet run my 914 but hear that at lower RPMs on ground because of the different length of intake manifold tracks, the front cylinders tend to become blackened a bit due to fuel droplets forming thus running a bit rich. At low percentages of power running a bit leaner may help out if it does not cause much in the way of hesitation. By unscrewing pilot air screw it will allow more air in thus cause mixture to become leaner. Perhaps one would start what factory recommends, unscrewing lets say 1/8 turn at a time until hesitation when advancing throttle begins, then richen a little by screwing in pilot air screws to point where hesitation stops? I will be modifying the intake track of our Europa XS powered by a 914 by adding an intercooler that is at best a convoluted mess of plumbing. There are planes flying with this arrangement, but I suspect that mixture could be influenced at low speeds where turbo is not working too hard? Have made several motorcycles much happier driving around at very low throttle settings with above listed approach. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:27 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically From: "Roger Lee" Hi Ron, You are correct in your deductions. I usually start with the factory idle mixture screw (i.e. 912ULS) set at 1.5 turns as per factory. At idle some engines do seem to cause a dry black soot on the plugs, but that goes away when you fly and no longer at idle. You can tweak the screws some to lean the idle mixture out some. You are also right about the intake air tubes. A 1/8 turn at a time will work just fine. Just fly/taxi each setting a time or two to make sure you get good consistent idle time on the plugs when you look at them. I had some black sooty plugs on my 912ULS on cylinders 2&4, but after I rebuilt the carbs it went away. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219160#219160 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:46 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal Or buy a piece of clear tubing for a few bucks, add some colored water and build a differential manometer: http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:16 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: re - Rough 912 UL Engine Operation when Pneumatically Bal An electronic "Syncromate" balancer is another good tool for carb balancing. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. 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