---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/18/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:30 AM - Re: Rotax Engine Technicians (Roger Lee) 2. 07:56 AM - Re: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians (Bob Brennan) 3. 09:44 AM - Re: Rotax Engine Technicians (Roger Lee) 4. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians (paul wilson) 5. 01:34 PM - 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (Bill) 6. 04:39 PM - Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (Stan Bearup) 7. 05:24 PM - Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (Roger Lee) 8. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (Bill) 9. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (Craig Payne) 10. 08:20 PM - Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (Roger Lee) 11. 11:30 PM - Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? (K Dilks) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:30 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians From: "Roger Lee" You should not use 100LL in your 2 stroke. Stay with auto fuel. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219958#219958 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:21 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians Roger, shouldn't that be - you should *try* to use auto fuel wherever possible, at least the octane level recommended for your engine (my 582 is 91 octane), and with as little and preferably no ethanol, and never above 10% tested. If not possible use 100LL with an additive such as Decalin. And make sure everything in your fuel delivery system is ethanol tolerant. We all know auto gas without ethanol is nearly impossible to find in most areas now, and you would be hard-pressed to find an FBO on a cross-country that sells mogas. The airport directory for Pennsylvania lists 1 airport in the whole state that sells mogas. I bow to your expertise as a Rotax repairman - but in the real world are my recommendations above the best one can go by? Always willing to learn! Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: 18 December 2008 10:30 am Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians You should not use 100LL in your 2 stroke. Stay with auto fuel. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219958#219958 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:01 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians From: "Roger Lee" Hi Bob, Here is a page (10-8) out of the 2 Stroke Operators Manual. This is taught in the Rotax classes, too. Bob your right in your statements. "Try" is the operative word, but try hard. You should avoid using 100LL in 2 strokes if at all possible. They were never really designed to handle the lead like the 4 strokes. It is more likely to gum up the rings for one. That said I would try very hard to stay away from 100LL in the 912's also if possible. If you had to use it because you are out of fuel somewhere then an emergency fuel use would certainly take precedence. Using 100LL in your 2 stroke all the time will cause more maint and possibly premature engine rebuild. I know the engine seems to run fine because 100LL is fuel, but the darn lead causes issues. You are right that if you get stuck using 100LL then a fuel additive like Decalin should be used to help with the lead scavenging. If you plan a cross-country then use some program like AirNav to find the airports that have Mogas. I know that finding these airports are not always feasible, but one should try. In my 912ULS I personally will use 91 octane with ethanol before using 100LL. Most of us aren't flying 2 strokes above 8K-10K MLS to worry about any kind of a vapor lock. If you have an exposed engine verses a fully cowled engine then vapor lock is reduced. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219978#219978 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_stroke_operators_manual_199.pdf ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:03 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax Engine Technicians Roger, Another point is since 100LL is a lighter fuel, thus more fuel/larger jetting is required. We all know that lean mixture on a 2 stroke is not so good. If one had the luxury of EFI then the efi would compensate, but with carbs re jetting is necessary. The same comment applies to gas contaminated with alcohol. New jetting is necessary to avoid lean mixture. This info comes from the auto race guys who use 100LL or E85 in their carb equipped engines high compression engines. Paul ============ At 10:42 AM 12/18/2008, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > >Here is a page (10-8) out of the 2 Stroke Operators Manual. This is >taught in the Rotax classes, too. > >Bob your right in your statements. "Try" is the operative word, but try hard. > >You should avoid using 100LL in 2 strokes if at all possible. They >were never really designed to handle the lead like the 4 >strokes. It is more likely to gum up the rings for one. That said I >would try very hard to stay away from 100LL in the 912's also if >possible. If you had to use it because you are out of fuel somewhere >then an emergency fuel use would certainly take precedence. Using >100LL in your 2 stroke all the time will cause more maint and >possibly premature engine rebuild. >I know the engine seems to run fine because 100LL is fuel, but the >darn lead causes issues. You are right that if you get stuck using >100LL then a fuel additive like Decalin should be used to help with >the lead scavenging. If you plan a cross-country then use some >program like AirNav to find the airports that have Mogas. I know >that finding these airports are not always feasible, but one should >try. In my 912ULS I personally will use 91 octane with ethanol >before using 100LL. Most of us aren't flying 2 strokes above 8K-10K >MLS to worry about any kind of a vapor lock. If you have an exposed >engine verses a fully cowled engine then vapor lock is reduced. > >-------- >Roger Lee >Tucson, Az. >Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated >Rotax Service Center >520-574-1080 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219978#219978 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_stroke_operators_manual_199.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:34 PM PST US From: "Bill" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? Today I removed the rocker covers from my new 912ul engine, and was I shocked to find #3 Intake rocker missing. This is a o time engine shipped from Skystar as part of a Pulsar III kit. I opened the factory box my self. Has anyone heard of anything like this ever happening before? What damage could have happened if the engine had been started this way at the factory? Does anyone have an unneeded rocker ? Bill S. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:04 PM PST US From: "Stan Bearup" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? Bill, There are a couple 912 rocker arms on ebay right now. Click on the link below, and good luck! Stan http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320326266696&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" Today I removed the rocker covers from my new 912ul engine, and was I shocked to find #3 Intake rocker missing. This is a o time engine shipped from Skystar as part of a Pulsar III kit. I opened the factory box my self. Has anyone heard of anything like this ever happening before? What damage could have happened if the engine had been started this way at the factory? Does anyone have an unneeded rocker ? Bill S. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:58 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? From: "Roger Lee" Why are you not going to an engine distributor if it came new that way. It's under warranty for at least 1- 1 1/2 years. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220067#220067 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:53 PM PST US From: "Bill" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? Roger This engine is six or seven years out, from a defunked distributer. I can not bereave that it came from Rotax that way. It would have been caught during factory run in. My biggest concern is, what could happen to the engine if ran this way? Bill S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Lee" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? > > Why are you not going to an engine distributor if it came new that way. > It's under warranty for at least 1- 1 1/2 years. > > -------- > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated > Rotax Service Center > 520-574-1080 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220067#220067 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 2:02 AM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:09 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? > This engine is six or seven years out I've got a 10 years old 912 with 6 hours on it. Apparently part of the TBO is the age of the engine in years even if it has never run. I think the limit is 11 years. On the other hand a prominent Rotax expert told me that I should test run it an look for leaks. I guess they worry about seals aging. I did have L.E.A.F go over it, doing the service bulletins, upgrades and external rubber pieces. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:59 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? Roger This engine is six or seven years out, from a defunked distributer. I can not bereave that it came from Rotax that way. It would have been caught during factory run in. My biggest concern is, what could happen to the engine if ran this way? Bill S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Lee" Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? > > Why are you not going to an engine distributor if it came new that way. > It's under warranty for at least 1- 1 1/2 years. > > -------- > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated > Rotax Service Center > 520-574-1080 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220067#220067 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 2:02 AM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:47 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? From: "Roger Lee" You don't want to know what would happen if you started it. I would check with Rotax before you just grabbed up parts because there is most likely some differences in the parts then and now. You also have Service Bulletins to do and the seals might all need to be replaced. Rotax suggest it get sent back in to a distributor if it has never been run in 2 years. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220099#220099 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:37 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912 Engine part missing. (From Factory) ? From: "K Dilks" ALL engines are run for minimum of 20 minutes at the factory. So knowing this I think for sure your engine is not a virgin..... some one has been in there for a part. Check the plugs to so how much running . If the rocker next to it has a plastic bushing then just get a new one as they are all the same . the old bronze bush ones are available over size, but this means the engine has many hours on it. -------- Austria ............. 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