---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/14/09: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Rejetting a 914 during Winter? (K Dilks) 2. 12:37 AM - Re: Rejetting a 914 during Winter? (conrad) 3. 02:40 AM - Re: Rejetting a 914 during Winter? (K Dilks) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 (Tom463@aol.com) 5. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 (LarryMcFarland) 6. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 (carl) 7. 04:22 PM - Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 (Les Goldner) 8. 06:10 PM - Bing Carbs (Silvano Gai) 9. 06:49 PM - Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 (Craig Payne) 10. 07:06 PM - Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 (Hugh MCKAY III) 11. 07:10 PM - Re: Bing Carbs (Hugh MCKAY III) 12. 07:23 PM - Re: Bing Carbs (Dave Austin) 13. 08:21 PM - Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 (Noel Loveys) 14. 10:24 PM - Re: Bing Carbs (Silvano Gai) 15. 10:25 PM - Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 (Les Goldner) 16. 11:16 PM - Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:12 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rejetting a 914 during Winter? From: "K Dilks" Check the solonoid valve. All Rotax engines are jetted quite lean. If the solonoid does not work then the Co is about 2,5% which on the turbo is too low at full wack so the valve opens up makes it around 5 to 7%. In the cold weather you are getting a very dense air charge so they will run a bit more lean so the situation gets worse. If this only occurs at full throttle then forget electrical except this valve. Also check that the little hoses that connect the valve to the carbs and the air box are good and check the nipple on the air box that feeds the alternate pressure to the carbs via the valve has not moved or is loose . The nipple must be aligned to get the small increase in pressure .A picture of that is in the installation manual. And last but not least let me know if you want to change the engine as I am looking for a 914 to stick on my 601 xl, I have an S at the moment. Kev -------- Austria ............. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224678#224678 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:03 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rejetting a 914 during Winter? From: "conrad" > Oh check the threeway solonoid valve which richens the mixture up at high power settings. You should hear it click on the ground if somone opens the throttle up , engine not running of course. This is situated on the airbox on all but the early engines. Kev I understood the the solenoid valve changes over to the ram air pressure (ie. clicks) when the airbox pressure gets to 1270mbar. It does not click with throttle position. The way to check the solenoid valve it to remove the hose connecting the airbox to the pressure sensor and applying a small pressure with something like a small syringe. Conrad Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224680#224680 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:43 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rejetting a 914 during Winter? From: "K Dilks" Woops that right not throttle position, airbox pressure changes the solonoid valve. Thanks Conrad for pointing that out. Kev -------- Austria ............. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224687#224687 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:24 AM PST US From: Tom463@aol.com Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 I recently was told the Ethanol in auto gas can cause the paper fuel filters commonly used on Rotax engines to become clogged. Has anyone had an issue with this? Tom N569AT **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:46 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 Tom, For 2 years I've been flying with a paper fuel filter, NAPA 31003, changed out every year, and have never had a clog or problem of any sort. Perhaps you had water that froze in the filter. That might do it. I used 87 octane (with Ethanol 10%) for 2 years and this winter, after draining tanks for the annual to check screens, I replaced the 87 octane with 100LL because of the length of time the plane sets in the winter. This year it's been 3 months and looks like snow may hold it off longer. Will resume 87 or 91 octane in warmer weather as available. The last fuel drained from the lines had signs of phase-separation cloudy and stratified layering at 3 months. Larry McFarland 601HDS with Stratus Subaru at www.macsmachine.com Tom463@aol.com wrote: > I recently was told the Ethanol in auto gas can cause the paper fuel > filters commonly used on Rotax engines to become clogged. Has anyone > had an issue with this? > > Tom > N569AT > > > * > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:10 AM PST US From: "carl" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 Tom A few years back when I was still flying in the winter I saw ice crystal collect in the funnel filter. This was on very cold mornings -20C with auto gas left outside in plastic containers. The crystals looked like tiny needles 1/4" long. These would clog any fine filter. Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom463@aol.com To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 01/13/09 I recently was told the Ethanol in auto gas can cause the paper fuel filters commonly used on Rotax engines to become clogged. Has anyone had an issue with this? Tom N569AT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- A Good Credit Score is 1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc =668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:29 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing. However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to use such a switch. Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches were designed for. Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if this is just an old wife's tale. Les ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:46 PM PST US From: Silvano Gai Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Bing Carbs It is time to rebuild my Bing carbs for my 912 UL. Should I just order the kit and do it myself, or should I send it to some shops, in this case what do you recomend? Thank You -- Silvano ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:13 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 The Rotax installation manual for the 912 series lists these voltage and current ratings for the "mag" switches (Edition 1, rev 0, page 112, May 2007) - switching voltage: min. 250 V - switching current: min. 0.5 A I don't know how it compares to the grounding of a conventional mag. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing. However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to use such a switch. Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches were designed for. Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if this is just an old wife's tale. Les ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:35 PM PST US From: Hugh MCKAY III Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I us e a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three pos itions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The ful l starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side o f the battery to the starter itself. - Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 Rotax 912UL- --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner wrote: From: Les Goldner Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing .. However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to use such a switch. Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches were designed for. Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if this is just an old wife's tale. Les ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:50 PM PST US From: Hugh MCKAY III Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bing Carbs Silvano: - If your plane is an E-LSA and you are trained by Rotax, you can do the insp ection and re-build yourself. If your plane is a S-LSA you cannot do the wo rk yourself. - Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 Rotax 912UL --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Silvano Gai wrote: From: Silvano Gai Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Bing Carbs It is time to rebuild my Bing carbs for my 912 UL. Should I just order the kit and do it myself, or should I send it to some shops, in this case what do you recomend? Thank You -- Silvano ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:06 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bing Carbs Silvano, How many hours do you have on the bings? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:26 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 The original DHC-2 only had two toggle switches for the mags... no keys except maybe the doors and I never saw them being used. However there was usually a switch right on the battery terminal that cut all power except to the clock. BTW ever crank over one of those old radials?? You had to get the flywheel running, with a crank, very fast then jump in and engage the start clutch.... A good workout. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:52 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing. However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to use such a switch. Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches were designed for. Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if this is just an old wife's tale. Les ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:14 PM PST US From: Silvano Gai Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Bing Carbs 140 hours -- Silvano Dave Austin wrote: > Silvano, > How many hours do you have on the bings? > Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:58 PM PST US From: "Les Goldner" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 Hugh, I wired my aircraft according to Robert Nuckolls Aeroelectric company's Rotax 912/914 wiring diagram Z16, except I used an ignition key. I know that the staring current never goes through the keyed switch. My concern is the current going through when the ignition is shorted out to turn the engine off. Craig Payne answered the question better by telling me how much current and voltage goes through the mag shut off (250V & .5A "minimum"). But I think I need to know the maximum rather than minimum amount. and then call the keyed/switch manufacturer to see what he says. Les Les From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh MCKAY III Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:06 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I use a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three positions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The full starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side of the battery to the starter itself. Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 Rotax 912UL --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner wrote: From: Les Goldner Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing. However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to use such a switch. Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches were designed for. Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if this is just an old wife's tale. Les D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:46 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 Sorry, those are the minimum ratings for the *switches*. Section 17.3.4 is titled "Ignition switches". So you can treat them as the *maximum* (at least approximately) found in the circuit. I have an uninstalled ACS A-510-2 OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH-START switch and its datasheet. But the datasheet doesn't give any current ratings. On the other hand looking at the construction of the switch the same style contacts are used for the circuits for the master and starter contactors and the two mag circuits. To my eye it does not seem likely that the Rotax pseudo-mag circuit would "far exceed" the capacity of the ASC switch. If it were my plane I wouldn't worry. I'm using separate toggle switches on my (unflown) 701/912 combo but only so I have the option of cranking with both mags off. I would do two things: ask Spruce if they have any ratings and post your question on the Matronics AeroElectric forum. Robert Nuckolls hangs out there and may have more information. To my mind the final bit of missing information is how much current flows and at what voltage when grounding the P-lead of a conventional mag. Because that is what the ACS switch was designed to do. -- Craig From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:25 PM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 Hugh, I wired my aircraft according to Robert Nuckolls Aeroelectric company's Rotax 912/914 wiring diagram Z16, except I used an ignition key. I know that the staring current never goes through the keyed switch. My concern is the current going through when the ignition is shorted out to turn the engine off. Craig Payne answered the question better by telling me how much current and voltage goes through the mag shut off (250V & .5A "minimum"). But I think I need to know the maximum rather than minimum amount. and then call the keyed/switch manufacturer to see what he says. Les Les From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh MCKAY III Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:06 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I use a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three positions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The full starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side of the battery to the starter itself. Hugh McKay Allegro 2000 Rotax 912UL --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner wrote: From: Les Goldner Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing. However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to use such a switch. Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches were designed for. Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if this is just an old wife's tale. Les http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.