---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/20/09: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:51 AM - Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Andrew Matthaey) 2. 01:50 PM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Roger Lee) 3. 03:26 PM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (lucien) 4. 08:20 PM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Roger Lee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:58 AM PST US From: Andrew Matthaey Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas I've flown my 582 upwards of 10K MSL many times without a problem...FWIW! Andrew KF3 582/C-Box ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:42 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas From: "Roger Lee" Hi Arty, Two trains of thought with two types of people. The people who know it's a very unlikely scenario (but possible) or the worriers. The very, very slight possibility of a vapor lock is possible and that's why Rotax wanted people to install a return fuel line. This helps in keeping any chance to a minimum. Plus you fly with an exposed engine which remains cooler than one in a tight hot cowling. The cooler fuel is less likely to lock than really hot fuel in a metal line. I fly and I know maybe hundreds of guys who fly with 10% ethanol and up to 12.5K and have never had any issues. I even know a few that have been to 16K-17K and no issue, but not recommended. The circumstances would have to be just right, not impossible, but not likely. If it were a real big problem then all the autos, motorcycles, atv's and any other engine would be vapor locking just driving up above this elevation in the mountains. Most gas station's ethanol content seems to be running around 5-7%. Really haven't found many at the full 10%. So you fall into the one type who will use it and not worry or you will be afraid of falling out of the sky and only use 100LL. 100LL shouldn't be used in a 2 stroke if you can avoid it. In all my hours and using 91 oct. at 10% I have never ever had any issues in a Rotax that was set up properly and I have flown all over the country. Of course you didn't even mention phase separation yet? :D Bottom line I have followed your trips and met you at a fly-in or two. Use your 91 Octane and have a good time. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235405#235405 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:40 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas From: "lucien" Roger Lee wrote: > Hi Arty, > > Two trains of thought with two types of people. The people who know it's a very unlikely scenario (but possible) or the worriers. Rotax has in writing that 5% is OK and I hear through the grapevine that they might be bumping that number up shortly. > The very, very slight possibility of a vapor lock is possible and that's why Rotax wanted people to install a return fuel line. This helps in keeping any chance to a minimum. Plus you fly with an exposed engine which remains cooler than one in a tight hot cowling. The cooler fuel is less likely to lock than really hot fuel in a metal line. I fly and I know maybe hundreds of guys who fly with 10% ethanol and up to 12.5K and have never had any issues. I even know a few that have been to 16K-17K and no issue, but not recommended. The circumstances would have to be just right, not impossible, but not likely. If it were a real big problem then all the autos, motorcycles, atv's and any other engine would be vapor locking just driving up above this elevation in the mountains. Most gas station's ethanol content seems to be running around 5-7%. Really haven't found many at the full 10%. > > So you fall into the one type who will use it and not worry or you will be afraid of falling out of the sky and only use 100LL. 100LL shouldn't be used in a 2 stroke if you can avoid it. In all my hours and using 91 oct. at 10% I have never ever had any issues in a Rotax that was set up properly and I have flown all over the country. > > Of course you didn't even mention phase separation yet? :D > > Bottom line I have followed your trips and met you at a fly-in or two. Use your 91 Octane and have a good time. Actually I'm surprised no one's mentioned this on this list yet but... Rotax is already telling our distributors that E10 has been approved for the 912 series (I don't know about the 2-strokes tho). If everything else in the fuel system is compatible with it, the engine is ok with it. They tested it with something like 20% ethanol even.... Rotax is also raising the TBO for the 912 series to 2000 hours (that according to Ronnie Smith at SMLA). Again, I don't know about the 2-strokes. Hopefully when they release the bulletin, they'll say something about them too. LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235418#235418 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:54 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas From: "Roger Lee" Rotax approved 10% ethanol is coming. It's just when will it come in writing. They are already talking about it in Rotax classes. Increased TBO hours for the 912 is coming, too. I try not to speak out too far in advance of something put in writing as I hate it when I get the rug pulled out from under me at the last minute. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235467#235467 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.