Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:03 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Thilo Kind)
2. 04:42 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Karoliina Salminen)
3. 04:43 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Thom Riddle)
4. 04:51 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Dave Austin)
5. 05:39 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. ()
6. 06:24 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Roger Lee)
7. 06:56 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Noel Loveys)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (lucien)
9. 07:41 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Tom Jones)
10. 08:22 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (rampil)
11. 09:17 AM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Jim Feldmann)
12. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Engine failure on take-off. (george may)
13. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Bing Carbs (Silvano Gai)
14. 03:58 PM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (carl)
15. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Bing Carbs (Hugh)
16. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Bing Carbs (Silvano Gai)
17. 07:16 PM - Re: Bing Carbs (Roger Lee)
18. 07:17 PM - Re: Engine failure on take-off. (Roger Lee)
19. 08:29 PM - Re: Re: Bing Carbs (Silvano Gai)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Engine failure on take-off. |
Hi Jim,
I had a similar experience a while ago, although the RPM only dropped to
4,000 or so and engine was running very rough. Turned out, that the choke
was not completely closed (the spring didn't pull the choke all the way to
close).
Thilo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Feldmann
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 04:41
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Engine failure on take-off.
<feldesign@earthlink.net>
I had an engine failure on takeoff today. Fortunately it was a long runway
and it happened at 10 feet altitude. No injuries, no damage, and no idea why
it happened.
Actually, the engine (Rotax 912 ULS) did not stop. It was running smoothly
during taxi and warm up. Mag check was fine. I held short for 5 minutes or
so for incoming traffic, running the engine from 2500 to 4000 for short
periods. No problems. On takeoff, the engine pulled cleanly to 5000+ for the
5 or 6 seconds it took to break ground, then suddenly started running very
rough and dropped to 2500 rpm or so. I immediately pulled the throttle to
idle and landed.
While taxiing back to the hanger it ran fine, I tried full throttle again a
couple of times and it ran perfectly. So what I have is an intermittent or
one time problem that could be deadly.
I don't think it was ignition related, because if it was a failure of one
"mag" it would have run much better than it did, and if both failed, it
wouldn't have run at all. That leaves fuel or mechanical.
The carbs have recently been rebuilt. After I calmed down, I checked the
float bowls, they are clean, the gascolator is clean and the fuel pump is
putting out 4.5 psi., right on spec. Fuel is flowing freely through all of
the inline filters and the header tank is full. I did recently drain all of
the fuel out of the airplane to fix a leak in the header tank. Then I simply
refilled the tanks from the top. Could there have been air in the fuel line
between the header tank and the gascolater? The engine had been run for half
an hour or so since then, but mostly at low throttle.
I have checked the throttle linkages also. No problem there. The plugs look
good too, but my runups on taxi back would have obscured the evidence
anyway.
My A&E suggested that it could be sticky valve.
Has anyone experienced a similar problem? Any thoughts on what to look for?
I'm very hesitant to fly it again until I know what caused the problem
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236598#236598
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:16:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Hi,
> Actually, the engine (Rotax 912 ULS) did not stop. It was running smoothly during
taxi and warm up. Mag check was fine. I held short for 5 minutes or so for
incoming traffic, running the engine from 2500 to 4000 for short periods. No
problems. On takeoff, the engine pulled cleanly to 5000+ for the 5 or 6 seconds
it took to break ground, then suddenly started running very rough and dropped
to 2500 rpm or so. I immediately pulled the throttle to idle and landed.
I know of one case of Rotax running rough at one point and it was
noticed that it does not quit unless you get the carburetors flooded
because of vibration. Good idea is to reduce power (not apply full
power because it could aggravate carburetor flooding) and land as soon
as possible.
There were three causes in this case:
- one spark plug cable was faulty and sometimes disconnecting
- fuel lines had been replaced and some pieces of the rubber pipes had
contaminated
the fuel lines by mistake, very tiny pieces were enough to cause
problems and even if the tubes
had been inspected for dirt, some pieces still got in the system
- choke cable was jamming and was not completely closed (caused
vibration and significant reduction of power)
The choke cable caused general roughness and lack of power while the
spark plug cable
problem finally identified itself in magneto test. It was very hard to
reproduce the problem on the
ground.
Mechanically the engine
was in fact in excellent condition. Maybe you should check these
things first before suspecting
a mechanical problem. I have never heard of anybody having a
mechanical (valve/cylinder) problem in a
Rotax 912 and the engines have constantly reached their TBO hours in
our flying clubs without a single mechanical
failure that I would have heard of.
In your case, the rpm dropping to 2500 sounds like it the carburetors
were already flooding. It is not the issue itself,
but the consequence of it. If full power is continued when the carbs
are flooding, the engine will quit.
Best Regards,
Karoliina
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
jim,
I do not believe a single sticky valve would cause a 50% drop in rpm at full throttle.
You don't mention how large is your header tank. If it is small enough
for it to be nearly exhausted during your long wait for traffic with periodic
throttle advancements to 4000 rpm then your fuel flow to the header could have
been interrupted and the header emptied. Assuming your tanks are above the
header tank I would run a gravity only fuel flow test from each tank to header
tank in normal take-off attitude (tail down). Each tank should flow a minimum
of 150% of full throttle fuel requirement by gravity alone. If this does not
reveal a problem then I would suggest you tie down the airplane securely for extended
static run-up and see if you can repeat this. If you can not repeat this
I would dismantle and inspect each segment of the fuel system one at a time
checking for anything that could cause a one time or intermittent blockage.
This is a good bit of work but should take a lot less time than recovery in the
hospital and rebuilding your airplane. The timing of the power loss could have
been a lot worse and could be next time it happens if you don't find the cause.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi
http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system
that works.
- John Gaule
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236621#236621
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Have you checked the tank venting?
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Hi Jim, glad all went well. I'm not a mechanic but my initial thoughts
were
that the engine ran fine during start up, taxi, run up, and faltered
when it
was looking for a full volume of gas. Very likely something restricted
the
flow when a large amount of fuel was needed. You could have carb bowls
full
during low rpm, normal pressures, and still not have full flow at full
rpm.
I would check for debris, main tank filter, off-on valve, pinched or
crimped
lines, etc., something that may have restricted the flow?
Fly Safe
Bob Griffin
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Hi Jim,
I'm with Thom on this. It is most likely a fuel issue and especially since you
just worked on the fuel system. Do as Thom suggest and check the fuel system,
do a flow test and tie it down and do an extended max rpm run test. Something
may be floating in the system and doesn't go to a small clog point until you demand
high fuel flow then it trys to flow down stream and gets hung up.
At some point you may have to pull the carbs, but do the other inspections and
test first. When draining fuel use a white strainer of some sort or some container
that is very clean to look for debris in the fuel.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236630#236630
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| Subject: | Engine failure on take-off. |
This is just a rough guess... emphasis on the word rough.
Your engine picked up something, probably water when the throttle was opened
and the fuel flow through the carbs was faster. I'd suspect condensation in
the carb bowls. At lower throttle settings the water wasn't being picked up
but once you oened the throttle... I'd try tying the tail down and doing a
couple of full throttle runs of maybe 30 sec to a minute each.
Do you have a gascolator?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Feldmann
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Engine failure on take-off.
<feldesign@earthlink.net>
I had an engine failure on takeoff today. Fortunately it was a long runway
and it happened at 10 feet altitude. No injuries, no damage, and no idea why
it happened.
Actually, the engine (Rotax 912 ULS) did not stop. It was running smoothly
during taxi and warm up. Mag check was fine. I held short for 5 minutes or
so for incoming traffic, running the engine from 2500 to 4000 for short
periods. No problems. On takeoff, the engine pulled cleanly to 5000+ for the
5 or 6 seconds it took to break ground, then suddenly started running very
rough and dropped to 2500 rpm or so. I immediately pulled the throttle to
idle and landed.
While taxiing back to the hanger it ran fine, I tried full throttle again a
couple of times and it ran perfectly. So what I have is an intermittent or
one time problem that could be deadly.
I don't think it was ignition related, because if it was a failure of one
"mag" it would have run much better than it did, and if both failed, it
wouldn't have run at all. That leaves fuel or mechanical.
The carbs have recently been rebuilt. After I calmed down, I checked the
float bowls, they are clean, the gascolator is clean and the fuel pump is
putting out 4.5 psi., right on spec. Fuel is flowing freely through all of
the inline filters and the header tank is full. I did recently drain all of
the fuel out of the airplane to fix a leak in the header tank. Then I simply
refilled the tanks from the top. Could there have been air in the fuel line
between the header tank and the gascolater? The engine had been run for half
an hour or so since then, but mostly at low throttle.
I have checked the throttle linkages also. No problem there. The plugs look
good too, but my runups on taxi back would have obscured the evidence
anyway.
My A&E suggested that it could be sticky valve.
Has anyone experienced a similar problem? Any thoughts on what to look for?
I'm very hesitant to fly it again until I know what caused the problem
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236598#236598
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Roger Lee wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> I'm with Thom on this. It is most likely a fuel issue and especially since you
just worked on the fuel system.
I had a similar experience with my 912uls right after I'd done a fuel line/filter
change. The motor ran fine during warmup and during the mag check, but on the
takeoff run as I approached full throttle basically one side of the engine
shut down. Shook the entire plane and of course I got right off it.
Turned out to be some debris having gotten into one of the carbs. A small piece
of rubber or something came out when I pulled the main jet and sucked through
it.
If you do anything with the fuel system you have to exercise absolutely operating
room cleanliness and diligence. I.e. when you change the lines, make sure you
debur and cleanup any sharp edges on any "T"'s or other fittings you may use.
These edges can slice into the line and send the little bits downstream into
the carbs.
What I do when I make the new fuel line assemblies is I flush them very thoroughly
with clean gas and then cap the ends with (clean) rubber stoppers from the
autoparts place. This way there's no possibility of any junk getting in the lines
as I thread them through to their final positions. Only after that do I uncap
and then push them onto the fittings at the fuel pump and carbs. I also cap
those fittings while I'm off making the fuel line assemblies.
There's no amount of attention to cleanliness and anality that's sufficient when
working with the fuel system and lines. My case where my engine got crap in
the carburettor was inattention to this detail when I redid the lines. I was lucky
in that it happened on the ground and not in the air....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236644#236644
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
> When draining fuel use a white strainer of some sort or some container that is
very clean to look for debris in the fuel.
Paint strainers, easy to find and inexpensive.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236647#236647
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
At the beginning of my flight testing I had a very similar event
which repeated several times.
Look for soot around your float bowls. It turned out that at high
throttle, my #3 exhaust to muffler pipe would jiggle loose and
shoot a jet of hot gas at my carb bowl, boiling the fuel and stopping
one side of the engine!
Do you have carb heat shields?
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236659#236659
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I will definitely follow up on
all of them.
I am particularly intrigued by Rampil's response, because I just noticed a smudge
above the right EGT probe, which is below the right carb. That will be the
first thing I take care of.
If anyone has any other thoughts, please add them to the list.
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236666#236666
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Jim--
Had a similar issue and it turned out to be debris=2C however=2C it was n
ot obvious on warm up=2C taki or extended full throttle attemps. It finally
was found when we tied the plane down in a climb attitude-about 15 degree
slope. We found a grassy slope on the airfield =2C tied it down and cranked
full power. It still took a couple of minute=2C but eventually the engine
began to loose power. One carb had run dry due to debris in the fuel line t
hat would float back and forth=2C but clog things up at attitude and fulll
power.
Good luck
George
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Engine failure on take-off.
> From: feldesign@earthlink.net
> Date: Sun=2C 29 Mar 2009 09:15:58 -0700
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
>
ink.net>
>
> Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I will definitely follow
up on all of them.
>
> I am particularly intrigued by Rampil's response=2C because I just notice
d a smudge above the right EGT probe=2C which is below the right carb. Tha
t will be the first thing I take care of.
>
> If anyone has any other thoughts=2C please add them to the list.
>
> --------
> Jim Feldmann=2C 3rd owner
> 1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
> Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236666#236666
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Message 13
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I followed the advice of Roger and others and I rebuilt my carbs: what a
difference, the engine runs much smoother!
Ordered manual from Bing and Kit from CPS.
Followed the instructions plus a couple of advices from a mechanic:
- rebuild one at a time;
- make a diagram of the small side card for the choke.
If it is time, I recommend it
-- Silvano
Roger Lee wrote:
>
> Recommended rebuild is at 200 hrs. The kit is about $214. Parts wear whether
you notice it or not. It is not hard, but you should talk to someone with experience
first if you have never done it. There are a couple of things unique to
the Bing. Doing it right the first time, not doing something wrong can save you
a lot of heart ache and having to redo it again. They absolutely will need
to have a mechanical and pneumatic balance when they are re-installed. The right
way is cheaper, easier and takes less time in the long run. Trust me I have
seen and rebuilt the "wrong way' ones enough.
> The people who never do a rebuild don't do themselves any favors in the long
run.
> If you absolutely won't do it at 200 hrs. then at 300 or 400 hrs. The parts do
wear!
>
> If you just don't want to do it yourself then I'll do them for $50 plus the rebuild
kit. One day turn around.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225235#225235
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Hi Jim,
Lots of good advice from the list.
Let me add the possibility of vapour lock after the long ground run.
Also recommend you add a fuel press gauge and warning light. They help to
diagnose problems as well as ident them before they lead to and engine
failure.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Engine failure on take-off.
> <feldesign@earthlink.net>
>
> I had an engine failure on takeoff today. Fortunately it was a long runway
> and it happened at 10 feet altitude. No injuries, no damage, and no idea
> why it happened.
>
> Actually, the engine (Rotax 912 ULS) did not stop. It was running smoothly
> during taxi and warm up. Mag check was fine. I held short for 5 minutes or
> so for incoming traffic, running the engine from 2500 to 4000 for short
> periods. No problems. On takeoff, the engine pulled cleanly to 5000+ for
> the 5 or 6 seconds it took to break ground, then suddenly started running
> very rough and dropped to 2500 rpm or so. I immediately pulled the
> throttle to idle and landed.
Message 15
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Silvano:
What do you mean, "make a diagram of the small side card for the choke?
Hugh McKay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Silvano
Gai
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Bing Carbs
I followed the advice of Roger and others and I rebuilt my carbs: what a
difference, the engine runs much smoother!
Ordered manual from Bing and Kit from CPS.
Followed the instructions plus a couple of advices from a mechanic:
- rebuild one at a time;
- make a diagram of the small side card for the choke.
If it is time, I recommend it
-- Silvano
Roger Lee wrote:
>
> Recommended rebuild is at 200 hrs. The kit is about $214. Parts wear
whether you notice it or not. It is not hard, but you should talk to someone
with experience first if you have never done it. There are a couple of
things unique to the Bing. Doing it right the first time, not doing
something wrong can save you a lot of heart ache and having to redo it
again. They absolutely will need to have a mechanical and pneumatic balance
when they are re-installed. The right way is cheaper, easier and takes less
time in the long run. Trust me I have seen and rebuilt the "wrong way' ones
enough.
> The people who never do a rebuild don't do themselves any favors in the
long run.
> If you absolutely won't do it at 200 hrs. then at 300 or 400 hrs. The
parts do wear!
>
> If you just don't want to do it yourself then I'll do them for $50 plus
the rebuild kit. One day turn around.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225235#225235
>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:16:00
Message 16
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If you take apart the choke carb for cleaning and replacing the O-ring
it is possible to reassemble the parts in two different ways and only
one is correct. The exploded part list is borderline to understand how
to reassemble the choke carb. Moreover the part list is only applicable
to one of the two carbs, since the choke carb is not assembled in the
same place for the left and right carb.
A little drawing of the handle and the holes simplify reassembling.
-- Silvano
Hugh wrote:
>
> Silvano:
>
> What do you mean, "make a diagram of the small side card for the choke?
>
> Hugh McKay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Silvano
> Gai
> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:03 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Bing Carbs
>
>
>
> I followed the advice of Roger and others and I rebuilt my carbs: what a
> difference, the engine runs much smoother!
>
> Ordered manual from Bing and Kit from CPS.
> Followed the instructions plus a couple of advices from a mechanic:
> - rebuild one at a time;
> - make a diagram of the small side card for the choke.
>
> If it is time, I recommend it
>
> -- Silvano
>
>
> Roger Lee wrote:
>
>>
>> Recommended rebuild is at 200 hrs. The kit is about $214. Parts wear
>>
> whether you notice it or not. It is not hard, but you should talk to someone
> with experience first if you have never done it. There are a couple of
> things unique to the Bing. Doing it right the first time, not doing
> something wrong can save you a lot of heart ache and having to redo it
> again. They absolutely will need to have a mechanical and pneumatic balance
> when they are re-installed. The right way is cheaper, easier and takes less
> time in the long run. Trust me I have seen and rebuilt the "wrong way' ones
> enough.
>
>> The people who never do a rebuild don't do themselves any favors in the
>>
> long run.
>
>> If you absolutely won't do it at 200 hrs. then at 300 or 400 hrs. The
>>
> parts do wear!
>
>> If you just don't want to do it yourself then I'll do them for $50 plus
>>
> the rebuild kit. One day turn around.
>
>> --------
>> Roger Lee
>> Tucson, Az.
>> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
>> Rotax Service Center
>> 520-574-1080
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225235#225235
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 07:16:00
>
>
>
Message 17
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Hi Silvano,
Glad everything worked out ok for you. Was the carb balance any hassle for you?
I know what you mean about the chokes/enricher circuits. Some people have turned
them around, but when you would go to start it and use the choke you would know
something was up, you just might not know you had the enricher circuit turned
around.
Bing, Rotax and several Mfg's recommend that carbs be rebuilt every 200 hrs. I
agree in theory, but depending on the plane and pilot use some could go longer.
Some guys go 800+ hrs and never rebuild. They just don't realize that these
carbs are moving constantly inside and parts are rubbing together and "O" rings
wear. The parts get out of tolerance and change the way things run, but they
never really see it because it is a slow process. Some pilots think so long
as it stays in the air everything is good. A plane is not the toy to be a high
miler cheapskate like you hear about some auto drivers. If you can't turn lose
of a few dollars for your own safety and that of your passenger you should probably
own a go-cart and stay on the ground.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236770#236770
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine failure on take-off. |
Hi Guys,
While talking about vapor lock I would recommend that all have a recirculation
line in the fuel system if you don't as this will help reduce a chance of vapor
lock.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236772#236772
Message 19
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Carb balance took a while, it required some patience, but at the end I
had a good balance in all the range
-- Silvano
Roger Lee wrote:
>
> Hi Silvano,
>
> Glad everything worked out ok for you. Was the carb balance any hassle for you?
> I know what you mean about the chokes/enricher circuits. Some people have turned
them around, but when you would go to start it and use the choke you would
know something was up, you just might not know you had the enricher circuit turned
around.
> Bing, Rotax and several Mfg's recommend that carbs be rebuilt every 200 hrs.
I agree in theory, but depending on the plane and pilot use some could go longer.
Some guys go 800+ hrs and never rebuild. They just don't realize that these
carbs are moving constantly inside and parts are rubbing together and "O" rings
wear. The parts get out of tolerance and change the way things run, but they
never really see it because it is a slow process. Some pilots think so long
as it stays in the air everything is good. A plane is not the toy to be a high
miler cheapskate like you hear about some auto drivers. If you can't turn lose
of a few dollars for your own safety and that of your passenger you should
probably own a go-cart and stay on the ground.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Service Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236770#236770
>
>
>
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