Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Noel Loveys)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (rampil)
3. 09:29 AM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Roger Lee)
4. 02:59 PM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (rampil)
5. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Craig Payne)
6. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Carlos Trigo)
7. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Craig Payne)
8. 06:30 PM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Roger Lee)
9. 06:47 PM - Otiker clamps and crimping tool (was Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas) (Craig Payne)
10. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Craig Payne)
11. 07:29 PM - Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (rampil)
12. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas (Craig Payne)
13. 10:58 PM - Otiker clamps and crimping tool (was Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 (Roger Lee)
14. 11:02 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
15. 11:07 PM - Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
I agree with most of what you have read with the exception that an open eng
ine will run cooler.- If that was true aircraft manufacturers and engine
manufacturers have wasted many millions of dollars developing efficient pre
ssure cowlings.
A well designed pressure cowl will help keep the barrels on your 9XX rotax
nice and cool.
Noel
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
Received: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:18 PM
Hi Arty,
Two trains of thought with two types of people. The people who know it's a
very unlikely scenario (but possible) or the worriers.
The very, very slight possibility of a vapor lock is possible and that's wh
y Rotax wanted people to install a return fuel line. This helps in keeping
any chance to a minimum.- Plus you fly with an exposed engine which remai
ns cooler than one in a tight hot cowling. The cooler fuel is less likely t
o lock than really hot fuel in a metal line. I fly and I know maybe hundred
s of guys who fly with 10% ethanol and up to 12.5K and have never had any i
ssues. I even know a few that have been to 16K-17K and no issue, but not re
commended. The circumstances would have to be just right, not impossible, b
ut not likely. If it were a real big problem then all the autos, motorcycle
s, atv's and any other engine would be vapor locking just driving up above
this elevation in the mountains. Most gas station's ethanol content seems t
o be running around 5-7%. Really haven't found many at the full 10%.
So you fall into the one type who will use it and not worry or you will be
afraid of falling out of the sky and only use 100LL. 100LL shouldn't be use
d in a 2 stroke if you can avoid it. In all my hours and using 91 oct. at 1
0% I have never ever had any issues in a Rotax that was set up properly and
I have flown all over the country.
Of course you didn't even mention phase separation yet?- :D-
Bottom line I have followed your trips and met you at a fly-in or two. Use
your 91 Octane and have a good time.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235405#235405
le, List Admin.
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Ah, if only like were as simple as some think!
Vapor lock occurs when the working fluid transitions to gas and the
rotary fuel pumps no longer propel the fluid.
Vaporization depends on the fuel composition and importantly, the
temperature and pressure surrounding the fluid.
It is flat impossible to say that there is a flat altitude limit due to
ambient atmospheric pressure for several reasons.
1) it is the density altitude that really matters for ambient.
2) No mention is made of the fuel temperature which will vary widely
depending on where the hose is and how it is shielded if firewall forward
3) fuel in a hose in an aircraft is usually under pressure! Maybe 5psi gauge
if carbed, or 50 psi gauge if injected. Fuel will not vaporize until the
temperature pushes the vapor pressure of the fluid to above the
atmospheric pressure plus the gauge pressure inside the hose.
and 4 if you like) All rotax 4 strokes have a fuel return line to keep the
liquid fuel temp down to fuel tank temperature and as far from
vaporization as practical without refrigeration. Try it, you'l like it!
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237205#237205
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Several people here have very valid and accurate points and vapor lock certainly
has more than a single facet. Keeping things simple in a public forum helps
everyone no matter what their background understand the topic discussion. I agree
with what most have said about the vapor lock as several things do affect
its formation or lack of.
Hi Noel,
I don't necessarily agree with the cowling verse fully exposed engine. A fully
exposed engine like on a Kolb Mark III which I did own and had one of the very
first 912ULS's on it. (It was called a Super Kolb at the time and took Sun and
Fun Grand Champion one year.) I came from the Ultralight day's of 1980. The
open air setup does such a good job of heat exchange off the engine that it can
be hard to keep temps up sometimes and of course it causes more drag. The cowling
on planes help reduce and clean up drag for the overall performance and
even it's aesthetic value. Once the engine was enclosed the cowling had to be
designed to allow cooling of the engine. Some cowling's do a good job of cooling
the enclosed engine and some do a terrible job and that of course is why a
number of people have tried to re-design their air flow under the cowling for
certain aircraft. An enclosed engine depending on its cooling characteristics
and capacity can help induce or help reduce a chance of vapor lock. Another issue
is a lot of Rotax 912's on different types of aircraft and depending on their
age don't have return lines.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237227#237227
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Hi Roger,
Re return lines: If the Rotax installations were all certified, then the
presence of a return line would be mandatory by AD. If older installs,
dont have it, it should be easy to add and should be to fix an identified
airworthiness issue. Up til now most Rotaxs have been in homebuilts
so the owners could do the job. Thats why I said: Try it you'll like it! I believe
most of the LSA installs have been since the SBs about return
lines.
As for simplicity, I am a huge fan of Einstein (yes, that one) who said
"Keep things as simple as possible, but not more so" Sometime the
chat on these forums simplifies so much that the truth falls out of the
discussion. It's nice to know where "rules" come from and understand
why and where they break down.
I do always appreciate your comments o0n this forum
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237296#237296
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Which SBs talk about return lines? I see information in the installation
manual but a quick search through the SBs on rotaxowner.com didn't show any.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:00 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
Hi Roger,
Re return lines: If the Rotax installations were all certified, then the
presence of a return line would be mandatory by AD. If older installs,
dont have it, it should be easy to add and should be to fix an identified
airworthiness issue. Up til now most Rotaxs have been in homebuilts
so the owners could do the job. Thats why I said: Try it you'll like it! I
believe most of the LSA installs have been since the SBs about return
lines.
As for simplicity, I am a huge fan of Einstein (yes, that one) who said
"Keep things as simple as possible, but not more so" Sometime the
chat on these forums simplifies so much that the truth falls out of the
discussion. It's nice to know where "rules" come from and understand
why and where they break down.
I do always appreciate your comments o0n this forum
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237296#237296
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
And where are the return lines connected from?
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
> Sent: quarta-feira, 1 de Abril de 2009 23:14
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
>
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Which SBs talk about return lines? I see information in the installation
> manual but a quick search through the SBs on rotaxowner.com didn't show
any.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:00 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
>
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> Re return lines: If the Rotax installations were all certified, then the
> presence of a return line would be mandatory by AD. If older installs,
> dont have it, it should be easy to add and should be to fix an identified
> airworthiness issue. Up til now most Rotaxs have been in homebuilts
> so the owners could do the job. Thats why I said: Try it you'll like it! I
> believe most of the LSA installs have been since the SBs about return
> lines.
>
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
In the stock engine the fuel return line connects to a banjo bolt with a
restrictor on the fuel manifold that clamps to the balance tube between the
carbs. I've attached two figures from the 912 installation manual (Edition 1
/Rev. 0, May 01/2007). If Matronics doesn't pass them through let me know
and I'll mail them directly to you.
-- Craig
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos
Trigo
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
And where are the return lines connected from?
Carlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
> Sent: quarta-feira, 1 de Abril de 2009 23:14
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
>
> <craig@craigandjean.com>
>
> Which SBs talk about return lines? I see information in the installation
> manual but a quick search through the SBs on rotaxowner.com didn't show
any.
>
> -- Craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:00 PM
> To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
>
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> Re return lines: If the Rotax installations were all certified, then the
> presence of a return line would be mandatory by AD. If older installs,
> dont have it, it should be easy to add and should be to fix an identified
> airworthiness issue. Up til now most Rotaxs have been in homebuilts
> so the owners could do the job. Thats why I said: Try it you'll like it! I
> believe most of the LSA installs have been since the SBs about return
> lines.
>
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Hi Craig and Ira,
Looks like you guys are on top of it. The return lines are very easy to install.
Many just return to a gasolator like many of the SLSA's and ELSA's or back to
a header tank if you don't have a gasolator.
p.s.
Don't forget to put your fuel line in fire sleeve and dip the ends of the fire
sleeve, plus you should be using band clamps (Otiker is one type and easy to use)
and not worm drive clamps.
There is no return line specific SB. It is in the installation manual. Even though
there is not an SB you should be keeping up on manual changes for your engine
health and your personal safety. Your right that many of the older engines
were put in homebuilt's and many didn't have them under cowl, but of course some
did. It didn't seem to be a big issue many years ago (but we learned), but
todays planes, the way we fly and where we fly has changed, fuels are changing
and finally our knowledge is catching up. You brought up owners doing the work
and that's perfectly ok, but some do it wrong for a number of reasons, but
all should take a Rotax class and do it right.
Rotax has been manufacturing the 912 since late 1989 and it has had 4K changes
since then. Some very small or minor and some very significant changes.
*Note*
If I ever sound like I'm being disrespectful in some way to anyone I never ever
mean it that way, but in emails it is easy to get the tone of the message wrong.
I enjoy helping others with problems and working with people and sometimes
throw a little philosophy in along the way. I usually get at least 2 calls a
day from out of state with 912 issues and people bring me their 912 engined plane's
to work on from 5 or 6 different states.
*** Bottom line in all this dicusion thread is a return line is a good idea and
can be found in the Installation manual.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237323#237323
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and E-10 mogas)
Roger, where do you get your Otiker clamps and tools?
I like them but unless I carry the (large and heavy) crimping tool in the
plane field repairs look difficult.
-- Craig
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
One problem with the factory design of the fuel manifold with return line is
the difficulty of measuring fuel flow. You either:
1. Modify the factory design to place the flow transducer after the return
line and before the "T" to the two carbs (increasing the risk of vapor lock)
2. Use two (expensive) flow transducers (either on the feed and the return
or one for each carb) which places extra requirements on the instrumentation
3. Try to compensate or estimate the volume flowing through the return line
(which makes my EFIS's fuel range calculation worthless)
I just don't see a good solution. Option 2 is the safest and most expensive
(what a surprise).
-- Craig
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Craig,
The usual 912 or 912s return flow is a very small fraction of the
forward flow, in essence a slow drip. For these engines a single
Floscan works fine (if a < 5% error is OK). I use this approach.
For 914 engines the return line has always been mandatory so far as
I recall. The return flow is a much higher fraction of the forward flow
as well. Here, two floscan sensors are required with an A-B computation.
If price is more important than accuracy, several manufacturers
make much less expensive sensors. Aveo and MGL come to mind.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237336#237336
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Subject: | Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas |
Thanks for the concrete numbers. I knew the restrictor was small. I wonder
how such a small flow reduces the chance of vapor lock.
Actually I have an MGL EFIS (I moderate the user group on Yahoo). Part of
the expense with MGL is that the current engine pod ("RDAC") only has a
single flow input. So in addition to the second flow sender you need a
second RDAC. There is a guy in New Zealand who has put together a small
circuit that adds the pulses from two senders and puts out a proportional
pulse stream. So two of MGL's nylon senders and the board might do the job
if I give each carb its own flow transducer.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rampil
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Vapor Lock and E-10 mogas
Craig,
The usual 912 or 912s return flow is a very small fraction of the
forward flow, in essence a slow drip. For these engines a single
Floscan works fine (if a < 5% error is OK). I use this approach.
For 914 engines the return line has always been mandatory so far as
I recall. The return flow is a much higher fraction of the forward flow
as well. Here, two floscan sensors are required with an A-B computation.
If price is more important than accuracy, several manufacturers
make much less expensive sensors. Aveo and MGL come to mind.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237336#237336
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Subject: | Re: Otiker clamps and crimping tool (was Re: Vapor Lock |
and E-10
Here is just one link to get Otiker clamps and pliers. I usually just buy the kit
with the pliers and an assortment of single ear band clamps. Then when I need
replacement clamps I order them separately.
There are other websites that have Otiker clamps and pliers.
http://chadstoolbox.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=521
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237353#237353
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Subject: | Official RotaxEngines-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.
The
complete RotaxEngines-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
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Matronics Email List Administrator
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This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
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*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
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the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
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*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
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email distribution as normal.
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***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
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Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
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for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
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*** List Member Information ***
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If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
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Joe Smith
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Please forward this information to the following email address:
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I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the RotaxEngines-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
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You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rotaxengines-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RotaxEngines-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
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One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RotaxEngines-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* RotaxEngines-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the RotaxEngines-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the RotaxEngines-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the RotaxEngines-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RotaxEngines
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RotaxEngines-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Official RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RotaxEngines-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RotaxEngines-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RotaxEngines-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RotaxEngines-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RotaxEngines-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RotaxEngines-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RotaxEngines-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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