---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/30/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:40 AM - Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS (R Holder) 2. 02:08 AM - Re: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS (Graham Singleton) 3. 04:09 AM - Re: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULSLow oil temps on 912ULS (Catz631@aol.com) 4. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS (Paul Wilson) 5. 07:56 AM - Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS (rampil) 6. 12:29 PM - Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS (george may) 7. 01:53 PM - Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS (Roger Lee) 8. 06:21 PM - Oil Temps Control (philip smith) 9. 06:28 PM - Ivoprop medium constant speed wiring (SUE MICHAELS) 10. 07:15 PM - Re: Oil Temps Control (Roger Lee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:40 AM PST US From: R Holder Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS > Well remember water evaporates readily at lower > temperatures than the boiling point. You don't have to > boil it to "burn" it off. > > You pretty much only have to get the engine and oil hot > enough to actually get it all evaporated before it gets > too cold again to do so. Whether that's 212F, tho, I > dunno. I look at the oil cap after the engine cools > down, there's usually a little condensation on it if I > didn't run the engine long enough to get it hot enough > to burn off all the moisture. > > As for the oil temp, I too have an oil thermostat > installed on mine and it helps keep the temps up quite > a bit. There are times in the winter tho where even > that won't allow it to get to 180+. I"ve landed and put > it away a few times in the very cold weather because I > still couldn't get the oil temps over 160 or something > like that without just really running the motor too > hard. One thing to remember, and no-one ever mentions it is : The oil temperature is measured at the oil pump on the way INTO the engine. AFTER the oil has been through the oil cooler. That means that a temperature of 180 shown on the gauge may well mean that the oil in the oil tank is 212 or more. So it is not necessary to have the gauge show 212 to be sure the oil has reached 212 ! Richard Holder ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:56 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS lucien wrote: > > > grahamsingleton(at)btinte wrote: > >> rampil wrote: >> >> >>> Remember the boiling point of >>> water at the normal operation oil pressure is much higher than the safe >>> temp of the rotax alloy in the heads, so the boiling usually, occurs when >>> the engine stops. >>> >>> At 4 atm (60 psi) the boiling point of pure water is about 300C! >>> >>> -------- >>> Ira N224XS >>> Ira >>> >>> >> I suspect you taught a lot of us something we had not thought through. >> Very good point. >> > > > Well remember water evaporates readily at lower temperatures than the boiling point. You don't have to boil it to "burn" it off. > > You pretty much only have to get the engine and oil hot enough to actually get it all evaporated before it gets too cold > > LS I forgot also that the oil is only at 4 atm inside the engine, when it vents into the tank its down to 1 atm. Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:48 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULSLow oil temps on 912ULS 190 degrees was the minimum temp necessary to get rid of condensation in the oil per Lockwood's Rotax 912 engine course I attended. Dick Maddux Kitfox 4-1200 Milton,Fl **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! MaystepsfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS From: Paul Wilson Of course airplanes don't fly at sea level. And since the oil system is basicaly open to the atmosphere (or slightly below) the the boling point of any water would be less than 212F. That is why the cooks have to adjust the recipies for altitude.!90F is a reasonable level for oil temp to vaporize any water condensate. Guys who fly in CO will get rid of water at even lower temps depending on the flight altitude. Paul On 5/30/09, R Holder wrote: > > > Well remember water evaporates readily at lower >> temperatures than the boiling point. You don't have to >> boil it to "burn" it off. >> >> You pretty much only have to get the engine and oil hot >> enough to actually get it all evaporated before it gets >> too cold again to do so. Whether that's 212F, tho, I >> dunno. I look at the oil cap after the engine cools >> down, there's usually a little condensation on it if I >> didn't run the engine long enough to get it hot enough >> to burn off all the moisture. >> >> As for the oil temp, I too have an oil thermostat >> installed on mine and it helps keep the temps up quite >> a bit. There are times in the winter tho where even >> that won't allow it to get to 180+. I"ve landed and put >> it away a few times in the very cold weather because I >> still couldn't get the oil temps over 160 or something >> like that without just really running the motor too hard. >> > > > One thing to remember, and no-one ever mentions it is : > > The oil temperature is measured at the oil pump on the way > INTO the engine. AFTER the oil has been through the oil > cooler. > > That means that a temperature of 180 shown on the gauge > may well mean that the oil in the oil tank is 212 or more. > So it is not necessary to have the gauge show 212 to be > sure the oil has reached 212 ! > > Richard Holder > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:02 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS From: "rampil" Yes, most water leaves the oil from reservoir, but also from the crankcase which is where the rust forms from condensation. Try a little experiment: Leave your master electrics on for a few minutes after engine shutdown (assuming a cowl!). Watch the oil temp rise. Also, keep in mind that the rate of vaporization is (for a particular species like water) proportional to the difference between the vapor pressure and the ambient pressure. Since the VP goes up exponentially with temp, a small increase in temp makes a big difference in rate of water evaporation, Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246030#246030 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:22 PM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Low oil temps on 912ULS You might try installing an oil thermostat--available from Lockwood. i have one on my Rotax 912uls. George May 601XL 912uls > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Low oil temps on 912ULS > Date: Fri=2C 29 May 2009 22:28:01 -0230 > > > Sound to me like a set of Lowell's shutters would be right up your alley. > Open then in the climb and close them to cruise in warmer weather. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les > Goldner > Sent: 28 May 2009 08:01 PM > To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com > Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Low oil temps on 912ULS > > > > I fly a Zenith CH701 with a 912 ULS engine and my oil temps are running l ow. > Rotax says the operating temps should be between 190 and 230-degrees F. M y > normal temps with 60-degree outside air run about 130-degrees at about > 4800-RPM. I only get in the "normal" range when running near full RPM=2C about > 5250 with my prop setting. I mostly use 91 octane mogas and CPS's > semi-synthetic AV-9 motor oil (which is supposed to be designed especiall y > for the 912). > Should I be concerned that the oil temps run below the normal range? > Les > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:24 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Low oil temps on 912ULS From: "Roger Lee" My temps right now in my Flight Design CT is 190-200 oil temp and 195-200 CHT. This is with a 73F-75F OAT. The oil thermostat is open at 180F and that's it. They are made by Perma-Cool. They do not have anything that opens higher. With the CT's I don't see any heating up to operating temp any faster with the thermostat than the ones without the thermostat and the regular temps aren't any better after warm up. If we want higher temps when it gets cool most guys use the 2" aluminum tape across the radiator. Setting the prop to achieve higher rpms (5500 WOT) will also get you more HP which will increase the temps some. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246061#246061 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:40 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Oil Temps Control From: philip smith Just curious - seems that it would be easy to fabricate a butterfly valve into the duct work on a CH - 701. My factory cowl has a NASA inlet on the right side that leads to a shroud against the cooler proper - seems that the duct is about three inches round and would facilitate a valve. Anyone try this, or if you tried this and it didn't work what am I over looking. Thanks Phil ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:25 PM PST US From: SUE MICHAELS Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Ivoprop medium constant speed wiring Hopeless!- The small wires from the constant speed prop-said to-conne ct to the coils. I think I get it, (no not really) but why the heck do I- run the wires all the way-up to the prop when I have the Prop wires alrea dy out there.-Can I connect-some where in line with the prop wires or w hat-am I-missing.=0A=0AGeorge ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:22 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Oil Temps Control From: "Roger Lee" Remos has an adjustable NACA vent. It is controlled from inside the cabin. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246082#246082 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.