---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/18/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:19 AM - Ethanol (Dan & Paula) 2. 05:34 AM - Soft Start Module (Matt Tucciarone) 3. 05:58 AM - Re: Ethanol (george may) 4. 08:53 AM - Re: Ethanol (Noel) 5. 10:21 AM - Re: Ethanol (lucien) 6. 10:23 AM - Re: Ethanol (Roger Lee) 7. 03:24 PM - Re: Ethanol (Graham Singleton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:16 AM PST US From: "Dan & Paula" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added. I am debating about what to do. Currently, most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol, but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture. The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues. I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel. By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL. I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL. Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines? Dan Yeast Frankfort, KY USA ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:58 AM PST US From: "Matt Tucciarone" Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Soft Start Module Just installed a soft start module on my 912uls. Works like they say and I would recommend it to anyone. Helps save the sprag clutch and the gearbox. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:47 AM PST US From: george may Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol Dan-- Rotax has ok'd the use of ethanol at a 10% level. Up here in the northeas t we've pretty much only had ethanol based fuels as mogas for 3-6 years. I' ve used it in both 2 stroke and 4 stroke rotax engines for 6 years with no issues. When I fly xcountry I'll use 100LL with TCP. The TCP works well at scave nging the lead out. If you don't use TCP wth 100LL you will need to chang e your plugs about every 25 hours George May 601XL 912s From: dandpy@bellsouth.net Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added. I am debating about what to do. Currently=2C most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol=2C but the ethanol lobby is pus hing for a 15% ratio mixture. The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues. I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel. By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL. I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL. Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines? Dan Yeast Frankfort=2C KY USA _________________________________________________________________ Bing=99 brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&cre a=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:17 AM PST US From: "Noel" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol TCP has to be burned to work. If your engine is a two stroke it will do the square root of sweet nothing to protect your main bearings from having lead plate out on them. It will however keep the top end of a four stroke engine and the exhaust valves pretty clean. Ethanol is a scourge we are all going to have to learn to live with for the short period at least. It will die shortly after the governments of our countries quit shelling it with our money. In the meantime I suggest; Getting as close to ethanol proof tanks as is available, Never leave fuel in your plane after a flight unless you know for sure you will be flying again in less than a week, Always buy your fuel from a very busy station as their fuel tends to be fresher. If you feel a little adventurous you can always wash the ethanol out of the gas. To do this you simply add as much water as is required to cause a phase separation in a separate container then siphon off the clean gas. A couple of problems with doing this is removing the Eth will lower the octane rating, finding a good octane booster that actually works may be a problem. Also you will have to treat all your fuel so trips to distant strips may be out. As far as I know MTBE is not available on the open market. I also recommend writing your congressman, Senator, Members of parliament or whoever and explain to then the danger they are causing by removing clean fuel from the market. I only wish there was a way we could collectively sue them (Politicians) the first time a crash occurs that is proven to be the result of Ethanol contamination. Just for the record if you are really desirous of clean fuel you can always come here to Newfoundland ;-) where there is still no ethanol in the gas. A couple of years ago a ship load did come in and the story I got is shortly afterward it had to go for refit as all the holds started springing leaks caused by ethanol corrosion. A federal law recently enacted requires all service stations in the Dominion to sell 10% eth gas within the next four years. Being that large tracts of the country do not produce corn and there is no known way to efficiently transport the crap yet I have my doubts if we will be forced into ethanol in the next four years. Come to think of it it's hard enough in some places to get ethanol at 80 proof in glass bottles. Noel From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan & Paula Sent: 18 July 2009 08:48 Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added. I am debating about what to do. Currently, most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol, but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture. The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues. I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel. By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL. I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL. Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines? Dan Yeast Frankfort, KY USA ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:23 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Ethanol From: "lucien" [quote="dandpy(at)bellsouth.net"]It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added. I am debating about what to do. Currently, most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol, but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture. The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues. I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel. By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL. I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL. Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines? Dan Yeast Frankfort, KY USA > [b] Actually, I just asked about Decalin Runup and if anyone knew much about its affectiveness with 100LL over on the Kolb list a little while ago. Probably good to ask that here? Both E10 and Decalin Runup (as well as TCP) have been approved for use in the rotax 4-strokes so at least our engines are covered for the time being. We can use either fuel. I've been using E10 (the only unleaded available here in NM) for about the last 4 months with no apparent problems. I very carefully monitor my fuel filter both pre- and post-flight to check for crapola. I also start robbing gas out of the plane and putting it in the pickup once the plane sits for 2 weeks. Once we go to 15%, and don't think for a minute our govt. is smart enough to not do that, we'll have no choice but to run either 100LL full time or a blend. I'll probably go to the blend for local flying and 100LL when I take trips. I'm going to try the Runup in future when I run 100LL to see what results I get (if I can even tell what the results are ;)). LS -------- LS Titan II SS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253632#253632 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:48 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Ethanol From: "Roger Lee" Hi Dan, If you have to choose between ethanol and 100LL, then ethanol is the lesser of the evils. The majority of the people use ethanol now days and they aren't falling out of the air or replacing their engines because of it. I will use ethanol laced fuel over 100LL any day. If you saw what an engine and slipper clutch looked like after a lot of 100LL you would stick with ethanol, too. I personally wouldn't even mix my fuel. 100LL is hard on engines even though the Rotax can run on 100LL for its life, but there are consequences. Cut the plug and oil change intervals in half or pull other parts off to clean out the lead. The ethanol is nothing to the Rotax. Most fuel tanks are ok with ethanol. TCP has some harsh chemicals and not supposed to be kept in the cockpit. Most people I know use Decalin. It does the same thing as TCP, but without the harsh chemicals. You use 1/2 oz. per 10 gals. Get it from Aircraft Spruce for about $16. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253633#253633 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:29 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Ethanol Noel wrote: > > > > If you feel a little adventurous you can always wash the ethanol out > of the gas. To do this you simply add as much water as is required to > cause a phase separation in a separate container then siphon off the > clean gas. A couple of problems with doing this is removing the Eth > will lower the octane rating, finding a good octane booster that > actually works may be a problem. Also you will have to treat all > your fuel so trips to distant strips may be out. As far as I know > MTBE is not available on the open market. > > > > I also recommend writing your congressman, Senator, Members of > parliament or whoever and explain to then the danger they are causing > by removing clean fuel from the market. I only wish there was a way > we could collectively sue them (Politicians) the first time a crash > occurs that is proven to be the result of Ethanol contamination. > > > Noel > Noel & all Here in Europe the alcohol is added at the distribution centres. There is _no_ check on which fuel it goes into so even the oil company cannot tell you what is in the fuel you are buying. They just have to confirm they have sold certain %age of "biofuel" IMHO it is madness and downright disgusting. Typical political trickery, as always we pay, they get the bonuses. 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