---------------------------------------------------------- RotaxEngines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/17/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:50 AM - Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Thom Riddle) 2. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Bob Brennan) 3. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Bob Comperini) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Bob Brennan) 5. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Bob Comperini) 6. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Bob Brennan) 7. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Bob Comperini) 8. 12:19 PM - Re: water pump socket to head leak? (Kitfox George) 9. 04:25 PM - Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations (Roger Lee) 10. 06:28 PM - Re: water pump socket to head leak? (ray atkinson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:27 AM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations From: "Thom Riddle" Garey, 1) 912 series engine TBO is currently 1500 hours, unless they have raised it again since the last time I looked. This and most everything you ever wanted to know about these engines can be found at http://www.rotax-owner.com/ 2) In my opinion the 912 engines are the best and most efficient in the business when maintained properly. No weaknesses if maintained properly. I much prefer the 912 over any other aircraft engine I've owned. 3) Without a current FAA medical a private pilot is restricted to the same privileges as a Sport Pilot, so the answer is NO, you cannot legally fly at night or IFR as PIC without a current FAA medical, no matter how well equipped the airplane. 4) An amateur-built Experimental can be modified or built for night and IFR flight. An E-LSA (except for those heavy ULs transitioned before Jan 31,2008) must be maintained to factory specs to keep its E-LSA airworthiness certificate. If the factory specs include equipment for night and IFR flight then the airplane is good to go for those flights, but a Sport Pilot or Private Pilot without current FAA medical cannot be PIC. See #4 above. http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x31 "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools." - Pablo Mason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273263#273263 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:26 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations Quick correction here Thom, from an owner of an ELSA certificated Kitfox: Your point #4 is true for an SLSA aircraft, which is a factory manufactured Light Sport Aircraft. These aircraft are subject to many of the same AD requirements and type-approved limitations that GA aircraft are, and as you say must be maintained within factory specs. An ELSA however is similar to other Experimental aircraft with minor restrictions regarding MTOW, number of passengers, and a few other things; but no restrictions on IFR or night operation. Those restrictions, as you correctly stated, are imposed on the pilot flying under Sport Pilot "privilages", or in this case "restrictions", as a PPL without a valid medical. One more note - an SLSA can change category to ELSA but not back - so Garey you can buy one of those factory produced SLSAs and still enjoy the freedoms of the ELSA category if you choose. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thom Riddle Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:50 AM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations Garey, 1) 912 series engine TBO is currently 1500 hours, unless they have raised it again since the last time I looked. This and most everything you ever wanted to know about these engines can be found at http://www.rotax-owner.com/ 2) In my opinion the 912 engines are the best and most efficient in the business when maintained properly. No weaknesses if maintained properly. I much prefer the 912 over any other aircraft engine I've owned. 3) Without a current FAA medical a private pilot is restricted to the same privileges as a Sport Pilot, so the answer is NO, you cannot legally fly at night or IFR as PIC without a current FAA medical, no matter how well equipped the airplane. 4) An amateur-built Experimental can be modified or built for night and IFR flight. An E-LSA (except for those heavy ULs transitioned before Jan 31,2008) must be maintained to factory specs to keep its E-LSA airworthiness certificate. If the factory specs include equipment for night and IFR flight then the airplane is good to go for those flights, but a Sport Pilot or Private Pilot without current FAA medical cannot be PIC. See #4 above. http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x31 "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools." - Pablo Mason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273263#273263 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:21 AM PST US From: Bob Comperini Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations On 05:33 AM 11/17/2009, Bob Brennan wrote: > >Quick correction here Thom, from an owner of an ELSA certificated Kitfox: Correct. Thom, its not true that an E-LSA needs to be "maintained" to factory specs. If the E-LSA was certificated under 21.191(i)(2), it only needs to be built "in accordance with manufacturer's assembly instructions" Once the airworthiness certificate has been issued, its no different than any other experimental. >One more note - an SLSA can change category to ELSA but not back Actually, I don't think you'll find anything in the regulations that prohibit an E-LSA "going back" into S-LSA status. However, I don't think too many manufacturer's will be very willing to issue another statement of compliance for a plane that has been flying as an experimental. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:19 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations Thanks Bob for those clarifications. But I feel the need for a few more to your statements here... > Once the airworthiness certificate has been issued, its no different than any other experimental. An ELSA Airworthiness Certificate, as with any AC, is issued with a list of Type restrictions which must be carried in the aircraft at all times. That document is different than those issued to an E-AB aircraft, specifically that any modification must not exceed the weight and passenger limitations, that an in-flight adjustable prop cannot be used, and a few others. So there are differences. SLSA conversion to ELSA - I'm too lazy to look up specific documentation but that fact was part of the knowledge requirements when I took my ELSA Repairman's course, and the instructor was *very* specific that it was a one-way choice and an exception to the normal ban on switching an aircraft's airworthiness type. I specifically had to jump through hoops to prove that my UK built Kitfox had never been issued an Certificate of Airworthiness of any type prior to my application for ELSA. The FAA had apparently had too many applications to switch type and rejected mine off hand without extensive (and expensive!) proof. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Comperini Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:13 AM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations On 05:33 AM 11/17/2009, Bob Brennan wrote: > >Quick correction here Thom, from an owner of an ELSA certificated Kitfox: Correct. Thom, its not true that an E-LSA needs to be "maintained" to factory specs. If the E-LSA was certificated under 21.191(i)(2), it only needs to be built "in accordance with manufacturer's assembly instructions" Once the airworthiness certificate has been issued, its no different than any other experimental. >One more note - an SLSA can change category to ELSA but not back Actually, I don't think you'll find anything in the regulations that prohibit an E-LSA "going back" into S-LSA status. However, I don't think too many manufacturer's will be very willing to issue another statement of compliance for a plane that has been flying as an experimental. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:19 AM PST US From: Bob Comperini Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations > >SLSA conversion to ELSA - I'm too lazy to look up specific documentation but >that fact was part of the knowledge requirements when I took my ELSA >Repairman's course, and the instructor was *very* specific that it was a >one-way choice and an exception to the normal ban on switching an aircraft's >airworthiness type. I specifically had to jump through hoops to prove that >my UK built Kitfox had never been issued an Certificate of Airworthiness of >any type prior to my application for ELSA. The FAA had apparently had too >many applications to switch type and rejected mine off hand without >extensive (and expensive!) proof. 21.191(i)(3) doesn't address the "E-LSA can't go back to S-LSA" question. One of the disqualifying factors is: "The aircraft must not have been previously issued a standard, primary, restricted, limited, or provisional airworthiness certificate, or an equivalent airworthiness certificate issued by a foreign civil aviation authority." -- Bob Comperini e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:52 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations Thank you for finding that rule Bob, SLSA conversion to ELSA is the *only* (to my knowledge) exception to that rule. ELSA to SLSA is prohibited by the rule, as is any other type conversion like E-AB to ELSA. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Comperini Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations > >SLSA conversion to ELSA - I'm too lazy to look up specific documentation but >that fact was part of the knowledge requirements when I took my ELSA >Repairman's course, and the instructor was *very* specific that it was a >one-way choice and an exception to the normal ban on switching an aircraft's >airworthiness type. I specifically had to jump through hoops to prove that >my UK built Kitfox had never been issued an Certificate of Airworthiness of >any type prior to my application for ELSA. The FAA had apparently had too >many applications to switch type and rejected mine off hand without >extensive (and expensive!) proof. 21.191(i)(3) doesn't address the "E-LSA can't go back to S-LSA" question. One of the disqualifying factors is: "The aircraft must not have been previously issued a standard, primary, restricted, limited, or provisional airworthiness certificate, or an equivalent airworthiness certificate issued by a foreign civil aviation authority." -- Bob Comperini e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:52 AM PST US From: Bob Comperini Subject: RE: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations On 07:23 AM 11/17/2009, Bob Brennan wrote: > >ELSA to SLSA is prohibited by the rule, as is any other type conversion like E-AB to ELSA. No, I'm sorry.. I disagree. I still maintain that it is legal to take an S-LSA that was converted into E-LSA under 21.191(i)(3), and convert it back to an SLSA, but its unlikely that manufacturers will be willing to go along with it (they will likely not re-issue a statement of compliance for that plane). -- Bob Comperini e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:46 PM PST US From: Kitfox George Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: water pump socket to head leak? Ray!!! Thanks for the excellent advice. I am waiting for Loctite 680 to set up and then reinstall the pump on the motor.=0A-George=0ASport Model(7+) - Rotax 914- almost, but not yet!=0Ado not archive =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________ _______________________=0AFrom: ray atkinson =0ATo: rot axengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, November 16, 2009 1:50:38 PM=0ASu bject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: water pump socket to head leak?=0A=0A=0ABe ca utous here this is a delicate part.Its threaded in with a very fine thread. The tap for this is very hard to find.I went through this with my plane. Wh en I removed the fitting and tried to screw the replacement in it seized an d would not screw in or out.After soaking it heating it etc. I finally unsc rewed it and stripped the threads off of the tube part.I then tapped the pu np outlet and succesfully replaced the tube.These are beautiful engines but too much like jewelry in some ways. Ray=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A >From: Kitfox George =0A>To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sund ay, November 15, 2009 5:14 PM=0A>Subject: RotaxEngines-List: water pump soc ket to head leak?=0A>=0A>=0A>Used engine!- I have a leak from the water p ump-at the fitting that-then attaches to the-hose that goes to the- head. I resolved all the little issues of installation but found this littl e moisture at that fitting. After playing-with it for awhile it-began t o-freely move-and leaked even more. I understand it is epoxied in place .. But,-I am unable to remove it from the water pump..-I have a lot of i deas but I sure I will pay for them in the end.-Note; the pump-has not been removed yet.=0A>-George=0A>Sport Model - 914- almost, but not yet! =0A>do not archive =0A> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroele ctric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com hre f="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://ww w.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?RotaxEngines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matr onics.com =0A________________________________=0A- Release Date: 11/16/09 ========== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:13 PM PST US Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax engines - Basic Info / Sport Pilot limitations From: "Roger Lee" I agree with Bob on taking an SLSA to ELSA and back to SLSA. I talked to Edsel Ford (top man for LSA for the FAA) 3 weeks ago about this very subject. He said you can do it legally, but no MFG would sign off on it again because that would put them in a liable position to sign off on any thing that was done while it was an ELSA. By the way new and revamped rules coming out for LSA's Dec. 13th. Good stuff. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273356#273356 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:09 PM PST US From: "ray atkinson" Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: water pump socket to head leak? Hi George I did not even know if my message got through.I,m always amazed at how well these engines perform given there light and seemingly delicate construction. I have that tap around somewhere and when I find it I will try to share it with a rotax repair person. Good luck and good flying Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitfox George To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: water pump socket to head leak? Ray!!! Thanks for the excellent advice. I am waiting for Loctite 680 to set up and then reinstall the pump on the motor. George Sport Model(7+)- Rotax 914- almost, but not yet! do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: ray atkinson To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 1:50:38 PM Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: water pump socket to head leak? Be cautous here this is a delicate part.Its threaded in with a very fine thread..The tap for this is very hard to find.I went through this with my plane. When I removed the fitting and tried to screw the replacement in it seized and would not screw in or out.After soaking it heating it etc. I finally unscrewed it and stripped the threads off of the tube part.I then tapped the punp outlet and succesfully replaced the tube.These are beautiful engines but too much like jewelry in some ways. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitfox George To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:14 PM Subject: RotaxEngines-List: water pump socket to head leak? Used engine! I have a leak from the water pump at the fitting that then attaches to the hose that goes to the head. I resolved all the little issues of installation but found this little moisture at that fitting. After playing with it for awhile it began to freely move and leaked even more. I understand it is epoxied in place. But, I am unable to remove it from the water pump... I have a lot of ideas but I sure I will pay for them in the end. Note; the pump has not been removed yet. George Sport Model - 914- almost, but not yet! do not archive href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www. .matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics .com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - Release Date: 11/16/09 07:43:00 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 11/17/09 07:40:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message rotaxengines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RotaxEngines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/rotaxengines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/rotaxengines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.