Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:10 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:03 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 503 (Robert C Harrison)
2. 02:52 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 503 (Dave G)
3. 02:58 AM - Re: Rotax 503 service manual (Dave G)
4. 06:22 AM - Re: Rotax 503 (MacDonald Doug)
5. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 503 (Blumax008@aol.com)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 503 service manual (Richard Girard)
7. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. (Blumax008@aol.com)
8. 01:47 PM - 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start (froghair)
9. 02:11 PM - Re: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start (Thilo Kind)
10. 02:34 PM - Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. (rampil)
11. 03:30 PM - Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. (Roger Lee)
12. 03:50 PM - Re: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start (Roger Lee)
13. 03:52 PM - Re: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start (Scott DeMeyer)
14. 03:59 PM - Re: Rotax 503 (rayw)
15. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. (Tom463@aol.com)
16. 06:01 PM - Re: Rotax 503 (rayw)
17. 06:33 PM - Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. (rampil)
18. 06:45 PM - Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. (Roger Lee)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Hi! Ray
If it is a points ignition have you tested the condenser?
Regards
Bob Harrison Europa G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayw
Sent: 22 November 2009 03:21
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503
Hello,
I cannot seem to find a Rotax 503 repair manual for purchase. Does any one
know of a source. It would be nice to know things like bolt torque specs and
pattern, plug gap, acceptable cylinder compression etc.
I did a compression check and got 115 front and back. The plug gap should be
ok because the plugs are brand new. The prop is bolted on and is providing a
suitable load. All fuel lines are brand new including the impulse line for
the fuel pump. The impulse line is 6 inches long and was ordered from LEAF
specifically for this purpose. The entire fuel system is brand new. This
airplane did not even have a fuel tank when I bought it.
It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the engine has 160
hours. Both slides are reacting the same when responding to the throttle.
Thanks every one!!
Ray
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274171#274171
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Never assume the plugs are gapped properly because they are new, in fact
it's likely they aren't.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rayw" <rmwis@charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:20 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503
>
> Hello,
>
> I cannot seem to find a Rotax 503 repair manual for purchase. Does any one
> know of a source. It would be nice to know things like bolt torque specs
> and pattern, plug gap, acceptable cylinder compression etc.
>
> I did a compression check and got 115 front and back. The plug gap should
> be ok because the plugs are brand new. The prop is bolted on and is
> providing a suitable load. All fuel lines are brand new including the
> impulse line for the fuel pump. The impulse line is 6 inches long and was
> ordered from LEAF specifically for this purpose. The entire fuel system is
> brand new. This airplane did not even have a fuel tank when I bought it.
> It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the engine has 160
> hours. Both slides are reacting the same when responding to the throttle.
>
> Thanks every one!!
>
> Ray
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274171#274171
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 503 service manual |
Here is a link for the support documents for your engine.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm
Under support.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rayw" <rmwis@charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:20 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503
>
> Hello,
>
> I cannot seem to find a Rotax 503 repair manual for purchase. Does any one
> know of a source. It would be nice to know things like bolt torque specs
> and pattern, plug gap, acceptable cylinder compression etc.
>
> I did a compression check and got 115 front and back. The plug gap should
> be ok because the plugs are brand new. The prop is bolted on and is
> providing a suitable load. All fuel lines are brand new including the
> impulse line for the fuel pump. The impulse line is 6 inches long and was
> ordered from LEAF specifically for this purpose. The entire fuel system is
> brand new. This airplane did not even have a fuel tank when I bought it.
> It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the engine has 160
> hours. Both slides are reacting the same when responding to the throttle.
>
> Thanks every one!!
>
> Ray
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274171#274171
>
>
>
Message 4
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> It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the
> engine has 160 hours.
Check the crank seal behind the points, this sounds kind of like a bad crank seal.
As for the service manuals, they are available for free from the rotax owners site www.rotax-owner.com
One more thing to check is the internal condition of your exhaust. Remember, on
two stroke engines, the muffler can is just as important as the carburetor for
proper running. I had a muffler come apart inside and couldn't generate enough
power to get into the air.
Do Not Archive
Doug MacDonald
Zenith CH-701 Scratch builder
Former Skyseeker MKII pilot
__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
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Message 5
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In a message dated 11/21/2009 4:06:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
joeing701@internet.is writes:
The tube from the crank to the fuel pump. Make
sure that it is not from a thin wall tube and not too long. If so, it
could clamp together and prevent the fuel pump to suck enough fuel to
the carbs.
My thought exactly! Back in '79 I had an old Yamaha 18hp single lunger on
an old Quicksilver weight shift. I put a new "Ace Hardware Store" clear
plastic fuel line on it...impluse line to fuel pump...it was so weak that when
power was applied, it would actually shrink in size, cut down on fuel flow
& engine would bog or go to high temps...or both.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 503 service manual |
I went to the Rotax Austrian site. No overhaul manual is available, same for
a Heavy Maintenance Manual. The only HMM available at Rotax classes (at
least at Lockwood) is the HMM for the 462, 532, 582 series water cooled
engines. This too is unavailable from Rotax Gmbh.
Here's the only thing that comes close (attached). I recommend you go the
the Rotax owners site and get the Illustrated Parts Catalog too. It's too
big to send as an attachment. It has torque tables for all the screws and
bolts used and schematic drawings with a parts list for each section of the
engine.
BEWARE the tap tight screw. You can tell this baby by the three lobe shape
of the threads. It's a self tapper and has a MUCH lower torque requirement
than a regular screw. This is where the IPC is indispensable, IMHO, because
it will identify exactly where it is used in the parts list that accompanies
the breakdown drawing.
If you are keeping this engine long term you might want to consider swapping
out the points for a CDI.
Last make sure the plug gap is .018", not looks right, Rotax ignitions have
a notoriously weak spark. Get an inline spark checker ($2 from Harbor
Freight, more money to the Chicoms but we're in so deep, now....) It's
almost impossible to see a Rotax spark at the plug and while a points
ignition will survive if you don't have a good ground, a CDI won't. (big
buck, many flowers to wife, etc, etc.)
Good luck,
Rick
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 4:55 AM, Dave G <occom@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Here is a link for the support documents for your engine.
> http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm
>
> Under support.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rayw" <rmwis@charter.net>
> To: <rotaxengines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:20 PM
> Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Rotax 503
>
>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I cannot seem to find a Rotax 503 repair manual for purchase. Does any one
>> know of a source. It would be nice to know things like bolt torque specs and
>> pattern, plug gap, acceptable cylinder compression etc.
>>
>> I did a compression check and got 115 front and back. The plug gap should
>> be ok because the plugs are brand new. The prop is bolted on and is
>> providing a suitable load. All fuel lines are brand new including the
>> impulse line for the fuel pump. The impulse line is 6 inches long and was
>> ordered from LEAF specifically for this purpose. The entire fuel system is
>> brand new. This airplane did not even have a fuel tank when I bought it.
>> It is an older engine with points ignition. I was told the engine has 160
>> hours. Both slides are reacting the same when responding to the throttle.
>>
>> Thanks every one!!
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274171#274171
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. |
I got the following (in red) from Ask.com. Bear in mind that it relates to
Ethanol used in Automobiles...not 2-cycle Rotax engines. With that in
mind, does anyone know if Ethanol will affect the rubber (neoprene?) Viton tip
used on the float needle valve in a Rotax carb?
Also, is the Viton tip made of rubber or neoprene?
Lost 90% power the other day due to fuel starvation in one carb (dual carb
503). The float bowl was flooding previously (overflowing thru vent tube)
but was still performing normally. When it lost power on a later flight
(which resulted in an off airport landing), the same float bowl was empty. An
A&I mechanic said that the Viton tip could stick both ways causing fuel
overflow & fuel starvation. I disassembled the float needle valve & Viton tip
& found that the Viton tip had some deterioration but am not sure this
caused the sticking. Has anyone ever experienced anything like this?
A 10% blend of ethanol and gasoline will not harm any engine or fuel
system component. However, the ethanol has a cleaning effect that will remove
rust and other junk from the fuel system. This necessitates frequent fuel
filter changes until the fuel system is cleaned out.
No modifications need to be done to allow an engine to run on a 10% blend
of ethanol and gasoline. There is, in some areas, an 85% blend of ethanol
and gasoline that does require engine modifications.
Actually there is no rubber used in the fuel system. All the fuel lines
are made of Neoprene which is impervious to degradation by gasoline or other
additives.
Message 8
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| Subject: | 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start |
Wondered if anyone has experienced this:
On cold start, anytime OAT is below ~60F, with full choke (enricher), engine will
start but shake violently as though not running on all cylinders. I have to
coax it to take any throttle increase for up to ~30 seconds. As soon as it will
take throttle, it breaks out of this 'harmonic' and runs normally and will
do so until allowed to cool back down to ambient temperature.
Engine info:
Older (1997) engine - no clutch gearbox. ~820 hours.
Installed on RANS S-6.
3-blade Warp Drive taper-tip prop.
Carb kits (from CPS) including diaphragms, floats, float needles installed at ~700hrs.
What I've already done/checked:
Carbs balanced - numerous times.
Cold cranking RPM checked at ~325.
New belville washers and shims in gearbox.
Carburetors inspected/cleaned numerous times especially enricher circuit.
Carb boots inspected.
Ignition inspected/checked - pick-up coils checked for proper resistance.
Start on one mag, start on both mags, start with throttle at idle stop, start with
throttle barely open (killed warm engine idling at 2200rpm and didn't move
throttle until next cold start).
Nothing helps and I'm just about out of ideas! Keep in mind that it runs perfectly
once it gets out of this ugly mode. Warm starts are no problem.
Thanks in advance,
Mick in Tulsa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274329#274329
Message 9
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| Subject: | 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start |
Hi Mick,
Mine does the same at temps below 50. Take 15 to 20 sec to normal behaviour.
Engine is on the plane since 2001; so far no adverse effects found.
Cheers
Thilo
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of froghair
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 22:47
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start
Wondered if anyone has experienced this:
On cold start, anytime OAT is below ~60F, with full choke (enricher), engine
will start but shake violently as though not running on all cylinders. I
have to coax it to take any throttle increase for up to ~30 seconds. As soon
as it will take throttle, it breaks out of this 'harmonic' and runs normally
and will do so until allowed to cool back down to ambient temperature.
Engine info:
Older (1997) engine - no clutch gearbox. ~820 hours.
Installed on RANS S-6.
3-blade Warp Drive taper-tip prop.
Carb kits (from CPS) including diaphragms, floats, float needles installed
at ~700hrs.
What I've already done/checked:
Carbs balanced - numerous times.
Cold cranking RPM checked at ~325.
New belville washers and shims in gearbox.
Carburetors inspected/cleaned numerous times especially enricher circuit.
Carb boots inspected.
Ignition inspected/checked - pick-up coils checked for proper resistance.
Start on one mag, start on both mags, start with throttle at idle stop,
start with throttle barely open (killed warm engine idling at 2200rpm and
didn't move throttle until next cold start).
Nothing helps and I'm just about out of ideas! Keep in mind that it runs
perfectly once it gets out of this ugly mode. Warm starts are no problem.
Thanks in advance,
Mick in Tulsa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274329#274329
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:38:00
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. |
Viton is a mixture of synthetic rubber and fluorocarbon polymer
it is neither rubber nor neoprene.
it comes in many variants and some are sensitive to organic
solvents like ethanol.
So far as I know, nothing in the rotax engine family is sensitive to
ethanol
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274332#274332
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| Subject: | Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. |
Rampil is right, nothing in the carb should be an issue for the 10% or less ethanol.
There was an SB out for some of the older float needles. If you have an
engine over approx. 5-6 years old the SB might pertain to you. You will need to
look this up because I can't remember off the top of my head where the cut off
was. The float needles have springs in them and they wear out. The old Viton
tipped needle was red and the new ones are black. Plus there were a couple of
other colors that had different spring pressures. Make sure your up to date
on the right needle valve and make sure it is not just plain old and worn out.
If you have a float needle older than 3 years old it should be replaced any way
because it is getting old and worn. Many parts should not just wear out and
quit before replacement. They have a timed life and these parts should be thrown
away. Rotax wants all rubber parts replaced regardless of hours every 5 years.
Rubber gets hard and may break or break down inside and get places you don't
want it to go.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274337#274337
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start |
First narrow the gap on your plugs to .024 to start and if it is slightly better
try .022. Cold starts if that is the actual problem is hard on engines. If it
continues think about preheating the engine. Narrow the gap on the plugs first
and let us know. What is your mag drop rpm and at what rpm is this test done?
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274340#274340
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| Subject: | Re: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start |
Hi Mick, my 912 does exactly the same thing as well. I have determined the
cause to be it's just a cold blooded beast. I think some people use a prehe
ater to avoid the cold starting issue but I don't.
Scott
--- On Sun, 11/22/09, froghair <tim47@phroghair.com> wrote:
From: froghair <tim47@phroghair.com>
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: 912 80hp violent vibration on cold start
Wondered if anyone has experienced this:
On cold start, anytime OAT is below ~60F, with full choke (enricher), engin
e will start but shake violently as though not running on all cylinders. I
have to coax it to take any throttle increase for up to ~30 seconds. As soo
n as it will take throttle, it breaks out of this 'harmonic' and runs norma
lly and will do so until allowed to cool back down to ambient temperature.
Engine info:
Older (1997) engine - no clutch gearbox. ~820 hours.
Installed on RANS S-6.
3-blade Warp Drive taper-tip prop.
Carb kits (from CPS) including diaphragms, floats, float needles installed
at ~700hrs.
What I've already done/checked:
Carbs balanced - numerous times.
Cold cranking RPM checked at ~325.
New belville washers and shims in gearbox.
Carburetors inspected/cleaned numerous times especially enricher circuit.
Carb boots inspected.
Ignition inspected/checked - pick-up coils checked for proper resistance.
Start on one mag, start on both mags, start with throttle at idle stop, sta
rt with throttle barely open (killed warm engine idling at 2200rpm and didn
't move throttle until next cold start).
Nothing helps and I'm just about out of ideas! Keep in mind that it runs pe
rfectly once it gets out of this ugly mode. Warm starts are no problem.
Thanks in advance,
Mick in Tulsa
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274329#274329
le, List Admin.
Message 14
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Hello,
As soon as I wrote that the plugs were new and should be ok I knew I was gonna'
catch it. Rightly so.........My High school shop teacher would have smacked me
for that comment.
I just went out and checked them. They are far in excess of .015/.019. I did not
close them up yet or run the engine but I am going to feel super silly if this
is the trouble. Oh yeah.....With the plugs out I did another compression test.
I got 112 in back and 120 in front. Seems low..Is it?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274344#274344
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. |
I just had the 200 hour service done on my 1 year old 912S. I always used
93 Octane auto gas. Non-Ethanol auto gas is no longer available in this
area.
The floats in the carburetors were found to be detoriating and flakes large
enough to clog the main jet were about to separate. It is possible the
floats were from a bad batch of resin; however, the Rotax Service Center
believed the cause was Ethanol in the gas.
They showed me a carburetor float bowl with corrision in the bottom of the
bowl. It was from a 200 hour, 5 year old 912S. Also, attributed to
Ethanol fuel and infrequent flying.
I'll be using 100LL from now on.
Tom Yowell
N569AT
Message 16
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Is anyone on this list from UK, Ireland or Iceland?
Thanks,
Ray W.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274358#274358
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| Subject: | Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. |
Tom,
Just out of curiosity, which Rotax Service center did you have
work on your engine. I have been using Mogas for 5.5 years
about 275 hours. I have not seen any deterioration of any parts
(except my first muffler which cracked in several places).
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274362#274362
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| Subject: | Re: Viton tips & Ethanol etc. |
I have seen a few floats flake, but usually older floats. A few new ones. I service
lots of planes and almost all use ethanol and none have any issues. You add
all these guys total hours and were talking tens of thousands of hours and
no problems. The planes that are at least 4-5 years old ought to have the floats
changed out and not just because of ethanol, but age.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274363#274363
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