Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:35 AM - Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (Thom Riddle)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (Roger Lee)
3. 08:53 AM - Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (lucien)
4. 09:25 AM - Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (Roger Lee)
5. 10:07 AM - Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (lucien)
6. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (Hugh MCKAY III)
7. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (Bob Comperini)
8. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You (Hugh MCKAY III)
9. 03:12 PM - Rough running 912UL (Scott DeMeyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
And then there are the mechanics that do all the paperwork but don't
actually do the inspection.
Your statement that all things done must be listed in the logbook entry
could get you into trouble. Should I make a list of all the things you did
NOT list in your logbook entries? There are dozens of things that you did
not list in your example logbook entries that are required to be done.
In the logbook entry a mechanic/inspector is required to state what type of
inspection was performed with the date and tach/hobbs time, ADs and SBs done
and REFERENCE the documents controlling the inspection. S/he is also
required to list all discrepancies found, plus remedies taken with reference
to methods. A mechanic cannot realistically list everything he did during
the inspection in the logbook entry. That is what references are for.
As you stated, there are good mechanics, bad mechanics and so-so mechanics.
Grading them purely on what the logbook says is a risky endeavor. My
personal approach is to provide a thorough work report to the customer with
all the details that he needs to know about his aircraft. Sometimes this
report is less than a full page; sometimes it is many pages. AND I do this
before actually doing any corrective work to get the customer's OK before
doing so.
Thom Riddle
Powerplant Mechanic since 1972
http://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
Good Morning Thom,
Merry Christmas
Glad you see it that way, you have helped me drive my point home. Showing that
all mechanics can usually do a better job. That many of the logbooks lack the
documentation, check list and discrepancy list. Using the supplied check list
will help bridge those gaps where some things fall a little short. Some homework
is required on each plane inspected.
The whole point of the article was not just strictly logbooks, but what they will
cost you later whether dealing with an authority or a prospective buyer. It
is to start getting everyone to try and do better with their paperwork. Do all
the paperwork and using check list will help you stay focused and on the right
paper trail.
The two poor logbook entries came from a plane that also had a wing tip replaced.
No mention in the logs about it, but that info was found and now it looks like
the owner was concealing it. That makes one ask what else might someone try
and hide.
The article was to help get people to protect themselves and get top dollar when
they sell their plane or to have a better idea of what they are buying.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278677#278677
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
Merry xmas guys,
A little bit of an aside on this, but regarding annual condition inspections....
is it just me, or is a condition inspection an _inspection_ and not a whole bunch
of maintenance and repair work?
I've often wondered about this because the main nightmare story I hear about annuals
is when the plane ends up staying in the AnP's shop for days and sometimes
weeks with all the repairs and maintenance that has to be done.
Even with standard category planes you hear this all the time, the annuals run
1000's of bucks plus parts and labor.
Sure, you expect a second set of eyes to find things that you might have missed
and you want them to. But seems to me annuals are often treated like huge one-shot
repair/maintenance sessions that cost up the wazoo and take days and days.
My take on it is, I'm a strong believer in the "rolling annual" - a constant series
of inspections and repairs as they come up with logbook entries for everything
I find and what I do to fix it.
For example here's a listing out of my logbook from April until now:
- replace prop to fix harmonic vibration problem
- compression check (suspected intake leak)
- oil/filter change
- change pickup line inside tank, old one starting to rot
- change main tires, check prop bolts
- fix inspection covers, reseat jam nuts on ail. pushrods, check for tightness
- new fuel lines/filter, add heat sheilds
- entry about stabiliator attach bolt movement, shim up elevator pushrod clevis
- replace prop bolts with correct hardware (oops!)
- repair positive lead on starter (came off), fix rubbing against an oil hose
- check stabilator end play - within spec
- check for vert. stab. skin cracks (as per Titan advisory)
- check wing attach bolts, tighten so spec, check prop bolts, check all engine
hose clamps
- replace ELT batteries, note new expiration
Er, you get the idea..... and my annual CI is due end of Feb and I haven't even
started going through the checklist of things to be done for that. That's a bunch
of stuff, cleaning, lubing, spark plugs, checks etc.....
Can you imagine what an annual with all this stuff left to be done at that annual
would be like? I don't think I'd ever get the plane back even tho this is all
routine stuff (and doesn't even include the CI checklist required in my op
limits).
Yet I've seen logbooks on even standard category planes where the only entries
are the annuals and nothing else. Talk about hell...
For me, I want the annual to be the AnP looking it over, doing what he needs to
do and not rebuilding my plane and overhauling my engine. My last annual was
about 3 hours and $300. Hopefully the upcoming one will be about the same.
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278699#278699
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
Hi Lucien,
You are exactly right. You should be looking over your plane in between inspections
and correcting issues as they come up. Jot them down in the logbook and sign
it if you are allowed or get a mechanic to take care of it then and there.
The inspection then is easier and less expensive. If an owner doesn't do this
then it usually ends up falling on the mechanic. If it is an item that isn't
an airworthy issue, but should be looked at soon, the mechanic might just note
it in his inspection, but if it is an airworthy or compliance issue he either
has to fix it or can't sign it off until it is fixed. So I think it is great
when people look over their plane and I don't have a lot to do, but look it over
or fix a few minor items before signing, but I get planes in all the time with
list like yours. When the mechanic signs his name he is stating that everything
is done, safe and airworthy according to the Mfg and FAA. Sometimes on more
expensive inspections the owners are their worst enemy because they haven't
taken the time to really get down a look in detail at their plane. That said
owners don't always have the trained eye or experience to see things. I am very
leery of cheap inspections. Cheap $$$$ inspections tend to be cheap inspections.
No there is no guarantee, but getting references on your mechanic or checking
his reputation is the best thing or just stand there and watch him.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278704#278704
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
Roger Lee wrote:
> Hi Lucien,
>
> You are exactly right. You should be looking over your plane in between inspections
and correcting issues as they come up. Jot them down in the logbook and
sign it if you are allowed or get a mechanic to take care of it then and there.
The inspection then is easier and less expensive. If an owner doesn't do this
then it usually ends up falling on the mechanic. If it is an item that isn't
an airworthy issue, but should be looked at soon, the mechanic might just note
it in his inspection, but if it is an airworthy or compliance issue he either
has to fix it or can't sign it off until it is fixed. So I think it is great
when people look over their plane and I don't have a lot to do, but look it
over or fix a few minor items before signing, but I get planes in all the time
with list like yours. When the mechanic signs his name he is stating that everything
is done, safe and airworthy according to the Mfg and FAA. Sometimes on
more expensive inspections the owners are their worst enemy because they haven't
taken the time to really get down a look in detail at their plane. That said
owners don't always have the trained eye or experience to see things. I am
very leery of cheap inspections. Cheap $$$$ inspections tend to be cheap inspections.
No there is no guarantee, but getting references on your mechanic or checking
his reputation is the best thing or just stand there and watch him.
Well in my case, because my plane is EAB, I have to get the CI signed off by a
traditional A&P. That can mean someone who doesn't know a rotax from a hole in
the ground and may or may not be familiar with airframe issues of my particular
plane.
Last year, a few things were caught and couple bad things were missed. The scariest
was the throttle cable starting to get cut in half by the swivel attachment
at the rear throttle quadrant (could have been very dangerous), and the spark
plugs incorrectly torqued (could have been every expensive). Fortunately the
plugs were undertightened and not overtightened but my hair still stood up on
end a little bit after going over the plugs myself with my torque wrench later
at the hangar.
So I like to be an informed owner as mistakes can always be made and things can
be missed. Or you can be in unsafe situations like mine where the holes in the
rules mean the designated repairmen really don't know very well what they're
looking at. So in my case, it's doubly important that I be able to keep after
my plane and engine myself to take up any slack that can occurs.
I already have a bit of a list of things to go through before my annual, gearbox
friction check, another oil change, getting new plugs and the heat conduction
goop, cleaning/oiling air filters, reline brake pads.... and some other things
I feel like I've already forgotten... seems like the more work I do on the
plane the more things that need to be done to it....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278707#278707
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
Lucien:=0A=0AYour email spoke to really what should be happening all along
during a year of flying. If your plane is an E-LSA then you yourself can ha
ndle the actual "100 hour or Annual Inspection" of your own personal plane
and, sign off the Inspection if you hold a FAA Light Sport Repairman Certif
icate. If you don't have one you can get one by attending-a FAA 16 hour t
raining course.=0A=0AHugh McKay=0ARotax912UL=0AAllegro 2000=0AN661WW=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: lucien <lstavenhagen@hotm
ail.com>=0ATo: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 23, 20
09 11:52:33 AM=0ASubject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Your Mechanic May have Jus
agen@hotmail.com>=0A=0AMerry xmas guys,=0A=0AA little bit of an aside on th
is, but regarding annual condition inspections....=0A=0Ais it just me, or i
s a condition inspection an _inspection_ and not a whole bunch of maintenan
ce and repair work?=0A=0AI've often wondered about this because the main ni
ghtmare story I hear about annuals is when the plane ends up staying in the
AnP's shop for days and sometimes weeks with all the repairs and maintenan
ce that has to be done. =0AEven with standard category planes you hear this
all the time, the annuals run 1000's of bucks plus parts and labor.=0A=0AS
ure, you expect a second set of eyes to find things that you might have mis
sed and you want them to. But seems to me annuals are often treated like hu
ge one-shot repair/maintenance sessions that cost up the wazoo and take day
s and days.=0A=0AMy take on it is, I'm a strong believer in the "rolling an
nual" - a constant series of inspections and repairs as they come up with l
ogbook entries for everything I find and what I do to fix it. =0AFor exampl
e here's a listing out of my logbook from April until now:=0A- replace prop
to fix harmonic vibration problem=0A- compression check (suspected intake
leak)=0A- oil/filter change=0A- change pickup line inside tank, old one sta
rting to rot=0A- change main tires, check prop bolts=0A- fix inspection cov
ers, reseat jam nuts on ail. pushrods, check for tightness=0A- new fuel lin
es/filter, add heat sheilds=0A- entry about stabiliator attach bolt movemen
t, shim up elevator pushrod clevis=0A- replace prop bolts with correct hard
ware (oops!)=0A- repair positive lead on starter (came off), fix rubbing ag
ainst an oil hose=0A- check stabilator end play - within spec=0A- check for
vert. stab. skin cracks (as per Titan advisory)=0A- check wing attach bolt
s, tighten so spec, check prop bolts, check all engine hose clamps=0A- repl
ace ELT batteries, note new expiration=0A=0AEr, you get the idea..... and m
y annual CI is due end of Feb and I haven't even started going through the
checklist of things to be done for that. That's a bunch of stuff, cleaning,
lubing, spark plugs, checks etc.....=0A=0ACan you imagine what an annual w
ith all this stuff left to be done at that annual would be like? I don't th
ink I'd ever get the plane back even tho this is all routine stuff (and doe
sn't even include the CI checklist required in my op limits).=0A=0AYet I've
seen logbooks on even standard category planes where the only entries are
the annuals and nothing else. Talk about hell... =0A=0AFor me, I want the a
nnual to be the AnP looking it over, doing what he needs to do and not rebu
ilding my plane and overhauling my engine. My last annual was about 3 hours
and $300. Hopefully the upcoming one will be about the same. =0A=0ALS=0A
=0A--------=0ALS=0ATitan II SS=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278699#278699=0A=0A=0A
============
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
On 09:28 AM 12/23/2009, Hugh MCKAY III wrote:
>Lucien:
>
>Your email spoke to really what should be happening all along during a year of
flying. If your plane is an E-LSA then you yourself can handle the actual "100
hour or Annual Inspection" of your own personal plane and, sign off the Inspection
if you hold a FAA Light Sport Repairman Certificate. If you don't have
one you can get one by attending a FAA 16 hour training course.
Hugh. I believe Lucien mentioned his plane being an Experimental-amateur-built,
so the "16 hour course" repairman certificate does not apply to him.
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Your Mechanic May have Just Cost You |
Bob:=0A=0AI saw that on his latter email. You are correct.=0A=0AHugh=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Bob Comperini <bob@fly-ul
.com>=0ATo: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 23, 2009
2:09:11 PM=0ASubject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Re: Your Mechanic May have Jus
@fly-ul.com>=0A=0AOn 09:28 AM 12/23/2009, Hugh MCKAY III wrote:=0A>Lucien:
=0A> =0A>Your email spoke to really what should be happening all along duri
ng a year of flying. If your plane is an E-LSA then you yourself can handle
the actual "100 hour or Annual Inspection" of your own personal plane and,
sign off the Inspection if you hold a FAA Light Sport Repairman Certificat
e. If you don't have one you can get one by attending a FAA 16 hour trainin
g course.=0A=0A=0AHugh. I believe Lucien mentioned his plane being an Exper
imental-amateur-built, so the "16 hour course" repairman certificate does n
ot apply to him.=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0ABob Comperini=0Ae-mail: bob@fly-ul.com=0AW
=========================0A
====================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rough running 912UL |
Hello Listers,
My 912UL, with 360 hours, has developed pretty severe miss between 2,500 RPM and
3,000 RPM. I've synced the carbs mechanically and pneumatically , cleaned the
plugs and checked the ignition wiring but still have a miss. Number 4 cylinder
top and bottom plugs were velvet black as was the top and bottom plugs on number
one cylinder.
If I run up the motor over 3,000 rpm then bring to down to 2500 or so, the miss
goes away for about 5 or 10 seconds but then returns.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Scott DeMeyer
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