Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:04 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (dashwood)
2. 05:19 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Roger Lee)
4. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Pete Christensen)
5. 06:51 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (rampil)
6. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Kevin Klinefelter)
7. 03:22 PM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (lucien)
8. 03:36 PM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Roger Lee)
9. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (FLYaDIVE)
10. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (FLYaDIVE)
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
the oil analysis posted puts amsoil at the top of the list.... sponsored by amsoil
..go figure. the mobil oil in both 40 an 50 scored very low in the foaming
category and reasonably high in most others. i wonder if this is as good an oil
for th 9XX for this reason. the text indicates that anti foam capabilities
is one of the most important factors in gear wear.
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304294#304294
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
Or...Or you could switch to Aeroshell plus 4 oil. It is made specifically
for the 912 Rotax engine. It is a semi synthetic that can be used with auto
fuel or avgas. Problem solved! That's all I use now. Lockwood uses it in
their training aircraft and has it available. LEAF also carries it.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4,912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
That article is a few years old, but it was done by an independent tester. I was
hoping that everyone one would take the article as an educational tool to see
what the additives are and what they do. There have been a few changes and other
oils added. If you use 100LL off and on then Aero Shell Sport Plus 4 would
be a good addition to this group being a semi synthetic. They had a foaming
issue at the beginning, but have taken care of that. The Rotax with the small
oil tank can't tolerate high foaming oils.
Dave is exactly right about what can happen if you allow the oil level to get too
low and or have a high foaming oil. The help combat oil foaming, which was
worse many years ago, Rotax raised the oil level using a new dip stick by 30%.
The old dip stick had a round handle where all the new ones are more square looking
and the flat oil level zone is higher up the stick. This generally affected
engine that are around the 5-6 year old and older engines.
Oil is the life blood of any engine so I don't scrimp here. I do my oil changes
still at 50 hrs and not 100 hrs. If you do oil changes like this, and stay away
from 100LL, except when you travel occasionally, then there is no reason you
can't see 3000 plus hrs on a engine. Use 100LL all the time and you'll be doing
a top end at 1000 hrs. and a gearbox sooner.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304308#304308
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
AMEN Roger!. Aren't you tired of Tucson. Why not move to the Austin area
so I can hang out with you?
Pete
ex Pima County Deputy Sheriff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:12 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil
>
> That article is a few years old, but it was done by an independent tester.
> I was hoping that everyone one would take the article as an educational
> tool to see what the additives are and what they do. There have been a few
> changes and other oils added. If you use 100LL off and on then Aero Shell
> Sport Plus 4 would be a good addition to this group being a semi
> synthetic. They had a foaming issue at the beginning, but have taken care
> of that. The Rotax with the small oil tank can't tolerate high foaming
> oils.
> Dave is exactly right about what can happen if you allow the oil level to
> get too low and or have a high foaming oil. The help combat oil foaming,
> which was worse many years ago, Rotax raised the oil level using a new dip
> stick by 30%. The old dip stick had a round handle where all the new ones
> are more square looking and the flat oil level zone is higher up the
> stick. This generally affected engine that are around the 5-6 year old and
> older engines.
> Oil is the life blood of any engine so I don't scrimp here. I do my oil
> changes still at 50 hrs and not 100 hrs. If you do oil changes like this,
> and stay away from 100LL, except when you travel occasionally, then there
> is no reason you can't see 3000 plus hrs on a engine. Use 100LL all the
> time and you'll be doing a top end at 1000 hrs. and a gearbox sooner.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304308#304308
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
I'm going to have to correct myself here.
I said Mobil One, but I was meaning to say Aeroshell.
Mobil One was so last year ;-)
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304320#304320
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
I think this thread started with symptoms of gear box component wear, and is
focused only on oil used. It is my understanding (from a Rotax service
class) that gear box wear could very well be the result of running with
less than balanced carbs and or lots of excessive low idle running. The
thought being that rough running, vibration, is the cause of early gearbox
wear.
Is it possible that the first several hundred hours on this engine's gearbox
included less than ideal carb balance and idle?
Kevin
914 Europa
----- Original Message -----
From: "dashwood" <dashwoodlock@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:04 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil
> <dashwoodlock@hotmail.com>
>
> the oil analysis posted puts amsoil at the top of the list.... sponsored
> by amsoil ..go figure. the mobil oil in both 40 an 50 scored very low in
> the foaming category and reasonably high in most others. i wonder if this
> is as good an oil for th 9XX for this reason. the text indicates that anti
> foam capabilities is one of the most important factors in gear wear.
>
> --------
> Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304294#304294
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
kevann(at)gotsky.com wrote:
> I think this thread started with symptoms of gear box component wear, and is
> focused only on oil used. It is my understanding (from a Rotax service
> class) that gear box wear could very well be the result of running with
> less than balanced carbs and or lots of excessive low idle running. The
> thought being that rough running, vibration, is the cause of early gearbox
> wear.
>
> Is it possible that the first several hundred hours on this engine's gearbox
> included less than ideal carb balance and idle?
>
> Kevin
> 914 Europa
> ---
This one actually started with a direct "what oil should I use?", so straightaway
I went and got the popcorn. You know it's going to be entertaining when that
question comes up ;)
As for gearbox wear, I'd put type of oil used near the bottom of the list of suspects.
Also, don't forget these gigantic, props a lot of guys put on these things, with
these mile long extensions, etc. Remember the MOI spec on the 912 box is the
same as 2-stroke C-box (6000 kg/cm2, IIRC), so you can't really get away with
those 200lb monsters on the 912 any more than with the C box... I'm sure that's
a culprit a lot of the time too in addition to rough or too slow of an idle,
etc...
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304359#304359
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
As far as gearbox wear I'm with Kevin and Lucien.
Oils are like Chevy's and Ford's. You may like one not the other, but they both
get you there.
Kevin,
I lived in Houston back in the mid 70's for 2 years and went back to Tucson. Too
much mud, rain, mosquitoes and prejudice for me. I'm an outdoor boy and the
first three made it hard to have fun. I forgot to mention and no mountains. [Laughing]
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304361#304361
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
Roger & Gaggle:
DINO really does not apply anymore. The MINERAL oils were DINO oils. The
new stuff such as Exxon Elite and Philips 20W-50 are concurrent with today's
'morden' oils.
The only statement missing from your post is BLENDED 50/50
Synthetics/Natural Oils.
They have proven to be the best of both worlds. Synthetics offers lower
friction - Natural offers higher EP rating and Better heat transfer
capability.
Were any of you around when Mobile came out with 100% synthetic? They had a
few engines seizes and pulled the product quickly. They then added natural
oil to the blend and came up with a very good oil.
Foaming is another issue that was solved years ago. The only current
foaming issue that has hit the ADDITIVE market recently (4 Years) was
LUCAS. The in store demo was very impressive. Have you tried it? But when
cameras were added in the oil sump/pan and in a rear-end Foaming was very
prevalent. I'm sure everyone knows that foaming is death to an engine.
Poor lubrication and collapsed lifters AND no film support.
Now, I do believe in SOME after-market additives. Naw - Not really.
Frequent oil changes and frequent flying do more to prolong an engine life
than ANY MECHANIC IN A BOTTLE.
If you do not fly much than maybe some of that expensive rust preventative
recommend by lycomming may help. Or EXXON ELITE oil which has an abundant
amount if it also.
If you are the betting type: Yet you do not want o put all your eggs into
one basket why not split your decision with what IS and HAS proven true... A
50/50 mixture of Synthetic & Natural. NO.... You don't do it ... Purchase
it that way.
Barry
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Full synthetic or semi synthetics oils for a 4 stroke engine are well above
> a standard dino oil for performance and high stress situations. This has
> been demonstrated by many institutions. Personally I would never put a dino
> oil in a high performance, high compression, close tolerance and gearbox
> sharing situation engine like the Rotax. I tear into enough of them and seen
> enough pictures from Rotax themselves to keep me in the synthetics and out
> of the full dino oils.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304267#304267
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
Sure Do Ira:
First - I have said this before - If the factory or engine re builder IS
going to warranty the engine use what ever they suggest. After all you are
dealing with THEIR money and you can only hope they stand behind their
warranty.
2nd - R/C engines is where Synthetic was first used and problems were
found. We are going back quite a few years. And knowledge is knowledge -
It does not matter how it was obtained.
3rd - Read my post on Mobile Synthetic Oil.... They were the cat's meow and
they had engine manufactures backing and they were WRONG!
They learned that straight synthetic was NOT the way to go.
4th - In my posting you should have read - BLEND and 50/50 synthetic &
natural.
My objection is the use of 100% synthetic.
Over the years things have changed and hopefully improvements in synthetics
have been made. I even read a web site that stated that 100% synthetics
have a Higher EP rating
than blends... NOW... Personally I do not beleive that. But if YOU want to
take a chance on a $20K aircraft engine ... Go RIGHT AHEAD.
Discussing oils is like discussing all the preponderances of life: Nature
Vs Nurture, Darwin Vs Divine, Chicken Vs Egg... etc.
Or as Roger put it Ford Vs Chevy.
As for me... I'll wait until all the experimental people resolve what REALLY
works.
Barry
On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:55 PM, rampil <ira.rampil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> Are you sure you want to offer opinions on the care of $20k aircraft
> engines different from the factory, the service centers, and experienced
> mechanics based on your experience in rc engines. Not many RC engines
> have water cooled heads.
>
> Synthetic oils are preferred in Rotax 900 series engines in general
> and should not be used in the specific case of using AV Gas with lead.
>
> Rotax adds and deletes oils to the Service Letter based on testing
> and also on promotional/competitive reasons. Recently Mobil One for
> Rotaxwas introduced as a synthetic which does not sludge in the
> presence of tetraethyl lead. At SnF this year Rotax was highly promoting
> this oil as the best available.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304257#304257
>
>
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