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1. 05:45 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 08:02 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (lucien)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (lucien)
4. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil (Noel Loveys)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
LS,
I think you bring up a good point about too large/heavy props being used.
For a little hearsay I bring up something I heard from a Rotax mech that
worked on gearboxes. He told me as an example he could tell when a square tip
Warp was being used vs a lighter prop by the wear on the gearbox internals. I
don't know the validity of this statement but I would imagine, lighter is
better. I have gone from my Warp taper to a lighter Kiev and there is a
dramatic difference in smoothness and at low idle gearbox noise is almost non
existent (which I had before)
In contrast, I removed the gear box from my engine, took it to South Miss
Light Aircraft and had Ronnie Smith look at it in an attempt to resolve my
intermittent kickback problems on shutdown. The internals showed very little
wear and the engine had been using the Warp taper tip the entire time. The
engine only has 230 hrs tt but we replaced the Belleville washers and another
piece anyway while it was apart. This did not solve my kickback problems
but it appears installing the Kiev did as I have not had it since.
Dick Maddux
Kitfox 4
912 UL
Milton,Fl
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
Dick Maddux wrote:
> LS,
> I think you bring up a good point about too large/heavy props being used. For
a little hearsay I bring up something I heard from a Rotax mech that worked
on gearboxes. He told me as an example he could tell when a square tip Warp was
being used vs a lighter prop by the wear on the gearbox internals. I don't
know the validity of this statement but I would imagine, lighter is better. I
have gone from my Warp taper to a lighter Kiev and there is a dramatic difference
in smoothness and at low idle gearbox noise is almost non existent (which
I had before)
> In contrast, I removed the gear box from my engine, took it to South Miss Light
Aircraft and had Ronnie Smith look at it in an attempt to resolve my intermittent
kickback problems on shutdown. The internals showed very little wear
and the engine had been using the Warp taper tip the entire time. The engine only
has 230 hrs tt but we replaced the Belleville washers and another piece anyway
while it was apart. This did not solve my kickback problems but it appears
installing the Kiev did as I have not had it since.
>
Certainly, the taper tip has less material towards the end and so it's going to
have a lower MOI, but Daryl told me a while back that the WD in 3 blades fits
within the MOI limits of the 912 box. So I very much doubt the WD can present
a problem for the 912 GB even the square tip.... I had a 68" taper on my 912ULS
for a while and the engine was quite happy with it.
However, originally, my 912ULS had an IVO medium in 3 blades on it with a 4" extension
- talk about a ginourmous Godzilla prop..... When I switched to my powerfin
(F model, 70" 3 blade), the weight difference was so much I literally had
to redo my W&B - almost 10lbs came off that prop flange. It was like unbolting
a bowling ball off the back of that motor.....
Never measured it's MOI, but it would not surprise me at all if it was significantly
over. The difference in terms of smooth running especially at idle with
the PF is night and day.
The extensions can add to the problem, tho they mostly magnify the Coriolis force
and stress the prop shaft bearings (as well as motor mounts, etc).
Basically, the 912 even tho it's 100HP, isn't like your grandpa's O-200, which
can run a 50lb metal prop bolted to it all day long. Like you said, the ligher
on the prop the better....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304400#304400
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
Dick Maddux wrote:
> LS,
> I think you bring up a good point about too large/heavy props being used. For
a little hearsay I bring up something I heard from a Rotax mech that worked
on gearboxes. He told me as an example he could tell when a square tip Warp was
being used vs a lighter prop by the wear on the gearbox internals. I don't
know the validity of this statement but I would imagine, lighter is better. I
have gone from my Warp taper to a lighter Kiev and there is a dramatic difference
in smoothness and at low idle gearbox noise is almost non existent (which
I had before)
> In contrast, I removed the gear box from my engine, took it to South Miss Light
Aircraft and had Ronnie Smith look at it in an attempt to resolve my intermittent
kickback problems on shutdown. The internals showed very little wear
and the engine had been using the Warp taper tip the entire time. The engine only
has 230 hrs tt but we replaced the Belleville washers and another piece anyway
while it was apart. This did not solve my kickback problems but it appears
installing the Kiev did as I have not had it since.
>
Certainly, the taper tip has less material towards the end and so it's going to
have a lower MOI, but Daryl told me a while back that the WD in 3 blades fits
within the MOI limits of the 912 box. So I very much doubt the WD can present
a problem for the 912 GB even the square tip.... I had a 68" taper on my 912ULS
for a while and the engine was quite happy with it.
However, originally, my 912ULS had an IVO medium in 3 blades on it with a 4" extension
- talk about a ginourmous Godzilla prop..... When I switched to my powerfin
(F model, 70" 3 blade), the weight difference was so much I literally had
to redo my W&B - almost 10lbs came off that prop flange. It was like unbolting
a bowling ball off the back of that motor.....
Never measured it's MOI, but it would not surprise me at all if it was significantly
over. The difference in terms of smooth running especially at idle with
the PF is night and day.
The extensions can add to the problem, tho they mostly magnify the Coriolis force
and stress the prop shaft bearings (as well as motor mounts, etc).
Basically, the 912 even tho it's 100HP, isn't like your grandpa's O-200, which
can run a 50lb metal prop bolted to it all day long. Like you said, the ligher
on the prop the better....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304401#304401
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil |
I half agree with you Roger. If a pilot is doing any amount of flying the
synthetic oil is definitely the way to go... but... If your plane sits at a
tie down for three weeks out of four than i think I'd consider a good
mineral oil that meets the specs.
Being that I'm getting closer to getting C-FINB back into the air on a new
to her 912 UL I'm paying particularly close attention to this thread.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: July 8, 2010 10:06 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: 912ULS Recommended Oil
Full synthetic or semi synthetics oils for a 4 stroke engine are well above
a standard dino oil for performance and high stress situations. This has
been demonstrated by many institutions. Personally I would never put a dino
oil in a high performance, high compression, close tolerance and gearbox
sharing situation engine like the Rotax. I tear into enough of them and seen
enough pictures from Rotax themselves to keep me in the synthetics and out
of the full dino oils.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=304267#304267
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