Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:48 AM - Re: Header wrap 3+ years later (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: New oil pressure regulating parts. (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 05:01 AM - Prop balancer (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 05:31 AM - Re: Header wrap 3+ years later (FLYaDIVE)
5. 05:40 AM - Gearbox/prop (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Gearbox/prop (Roger Lee)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: New oil pressure regulating parts. (Roger Lee)
8. 07:48 AM - Rotax folly (Fergus Kyle)
9. 08:08 AM - Re: Information (william sullivan)
10. 09:22 AM - Re: Rotax folly (Richard Girard)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: Gearbox/prop (Richard Girard)
12. 09:41 AM - Re: Prop balancer (Roger Lee)
13. 09:45 AM - Re: Information (Roger Lee)
14. 10:08 AM - Re: Gearbox/prop (Scott DeMeyer)
15. 10:54 AM - Re: Gearbox friction torque, when and how and it's mandatory! (Hugh McKay)
16. 12:05 PM - Re: Gearbox friction torque, when and how and it's mandatory! (Roger Lee)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Header wrap 3+ years later |
As you say roger, I had to remove a couple of my exhaust pipes to get an
item on my engine the exhaust wrap had brittleized and fell away. Glad I had
more. Stuff works great ! I bought the super deluxe titanium colored stuff
Hoopdeedoo !
Dick Maddux
Milton,Fl
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New oil pressure regulating parts. |
I have the mid 90's Rotax you are talking about. Everything is old. I would
suppose you have to do the purge if you replace these items Roger ? (ie"
you are breaking the oil system)
I would like to do this.
Dick Maddux
912UL (old Orville/Wilber special version)
Milton,Fl
Message 3
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Roger,
Please don't forget to post the info on the prop balancer we talked about.
I am going to buy one as soon as you post the info. Thanks for all your
help !!
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Header wrap 3+ years later |
Dick:
Over the years there has been so much reported that the 'wrap' holds in
moisture on those rainy non-flying days that it causes the joints and bolts
to rust/corrode prematurely. Have you found that to be the case?
Barry
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 7:48 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
> As you say roger, I had to remove a couple of my exhaust pipes to get an
> item on my engine the exhaust wrap had brittleized and fell away. Glad I had
> more. Stuff works great ! I bought the super deluxe titanium colored stuff
> Hoopdeedoo !
> Dick Maddux
> Milton,Fl
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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This is just an update on the Paradise P-1 we have been working on. To
review, the aircraft had developed a vibration at cruise rpms that could be felt
thruout the aircraft in flight and on the ground. After much testing
(carbs,prop pitch,tracking,etc) it was decided to pull the gearbox and send it
to
Lockwood for overhaul. The aircraft has less than 300 hrs since new, the
torque friction test was OK albeit on the lower side compared to another
Paradise of equal vintage (3years old) I personally couldn't see how it could be
the box but the owner wanted to do it so. Lockwood inspected the box, said it
looked fine,reshimmed it and sent it back with new belville washers. We
reinstalled it and he flew it yesterday. Vibration is gone! Well, almost.There
is just a hair. He has ordered and will be installing a new Kiev prop vs the
square tip Warp on the aircraft. The Kiev is lighter and has been much
smoother on the few Paradise aircraft we have here. Cruise speed has also
increased.
I have also removed the taper tip,nickle edge Warp on my Kitfox and have
installed the Kiev. It has made a dramatic difference for my aircraft! The
Kiev is very quiet and as smooth as a turbine and more importantly, I am no
longer plagued with the kickback problem I was having on shutdown. I haven't
realized an increase in cruise speed ,however as in the Paradise
Please don't get me wrong, that Warp is tough as nails and I do like it
but the Kiev has solved my problems.
The Lockwood tech was not suprised that the gearbox reshim /correct
propellor combo solved the problem as they have dealt with that many times before
even with low time engines.
I just relate this story because sometimes things are not what they seem.
I was absolutely sure the gearbox was not a problem. Maybe the "heavier"
Warp was creating more wear, weaker bellview springs, who knows?
Dick Maddux
912UL
Milton,Fl
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox/prop |
Hi Dick,
Glad it finally worked out for you. Sometimes finding a problem is like chasing
a ghost.
Rotax is fairly adamant about not using anything over 68" from Warp and absolutely
no nickel edges. I have a 66" Warp on my plane. I will say after doing this
for years now that the heavy props will take their toll on a gearbox over time
and you won't even know it until it's too late and you need a gearbox rebuild.
The lighter the prop the better off you are and make sure you do at least
a static balance on a new prop. This is another reason everyone should do the
gearbox friction torque test as I mentioned in another post. This will help determine
if you are headed down hill in the gearbox.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307181#307181
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New oil pressure regulating parts. |
Hi Dick,
No purge is necessary. Just unscrew the old cap screw and drop out the old spring
and ball bearing and push the other 3 new parts in and secure. Takes ten minutes
from start to finish including the safety wire on the cap screw. For once
in our lives it really is a piece of cake.
This is a highly recommended and fairly cheap upgrade.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307182#307182
Message 8
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Roger,
Thanks for the info - your contribution to this net is always
greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, the selection of 'PayPal' for payment agent is a mistake. I
have had nothing but trouble from this outfit. One minute, they are happy to
have the business and transfer the funds without let, and the next they
suddenly refuse to accept the same credit card information arbitrarily.
Attempting to contact them for clarification is useless.
This may be in line with their unique and thinly-disguised
"nationalism" as they have decided I can't buy the most innocuous item from
US distributors. I expect the company has embargoed my card for all
transactions (naturally without cause). It's not the tenor of a supposed
ally. That is not the attitude for an alien firm to treat Canadians. I am
surprised Rotax has taken the easy route to fund transfer. It also means I
am prevented from taking advantage of information which educates and
prevents threatening errors in engine maintenance. I intend to keep a sharp
watch on what is denied me as an owner.
I still send personal best wishes...........!
Ferg
Europa C-FFGG
Message 9
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- Fergus- Try www.rotaxflyingclub.com
-
- It is the factory site, and all info is free.- The Rotax owner site i
s a pay site.
-
-------------------------
-------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------- Windsor Locks,
Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------- Kolb FS 447
-
-
Message 10
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Fergus, I'm not connected with Paypal, own no stock in the company or
anything else, for that matter, and I'm not an international finance expert
nor do I play one on TV, but, I've been using Paypal for almost ten years
for sales and purchases on eBay and elsewhere. I've received money from
buyers in Canada, Europe, Asia and Australia with nary a hitch. Likewise
I've bought from all over the world with equally good results.
Sorry I can't help you in the spirit of Norte Americano camaraderie, but yo
u
might try going completely through your profile to make sure the right
credit card is being accessed and your bank info is correct.
Yours in friendship and cheese,
Rick Girard
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO@rac.ca> wrote:
> Roger,
>
> Thanks for the info ' your contribution to this net is always
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Unfortunately, the selection of =91PayPal=92 for payment agent is a mista
ke. I
> have had nothing but trouble from this outfit. One minute, they are happy
> to have the business and transfer the funds without let, and the next the
y
> suddenly refuse to accept the same credit card information arbitrarily.
> Attempting to contact them for clarification is useless.
>
> This may be in line with their unique and thinly-disguised =93
> nationalism=94 as they have decided I can=92t buy the most innocuous item
from
> US distributors. I expect the company has embargoed my card for all
> transactions (naturally without cause). It=92s not the tenor of a suppose
d
> ally. That is not the attitude for an alien firm to treat Canadians. I am
> surprised Rotax has taken the easy route to fund transfer. It also means
I
> am prevented from taking advantage of information which educates and
> prevents threatening errors in engine maintenance. I intend to keep a
> sharp watch on what is denied me as an owner.
>
> I still send personal best wishes...........!
>
> Ferg
>
> Europa C-FFGG
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox/prop |
Dick, Rotax has a spec for prop balance of .5 gram (Installation Manual,
page 121). A small nick, abrasion from high grass, even cleaning the
propeller with strong cleaning agents or abrasives, particularly if they
remove the paint which WD uses for fine balance, can effect this in a
negative way. Have you balanced your prop lately?
Rick Girard
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 7:39 AM, <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
> This is just an update on the Paradise P-1 we have been working on. To
> review, the aircraft had developed a vibration at cruise rpms that could be
> felt thruout the aircraft in flight and on the ground. After much testing
> (carbs,prop pitch,tracking,etc) it was decided to pull the gearbox and send
> it to Lockwood for overhaul. The aircraft has less than 300 hrs since new,
> the torque friction test was OK albeit on the lower side compared to another
> Paradise of equal vintage (3years old) I personally couldn't see how it
> could be the box but the owner wanted to do it so. Lockwood inspected the
> box, said it looked fine,reshimmed it and sent it back with new belville
> washers. We reinstalled it and he flew it yesterday. Vibration is gone!
> Well, almost.There is just a hair. He has ordered and will be installing a
> new Kiev prop vs the square tip Warp on the aircraft. The Kiev is lighter
> and has been much smoother on the few Paradise aircraft we have here. Cruise
> speed has also increased.
> I have also removed the taper tip,nickle edge Warp on my Kitfox and have
> installed the Kiev. It has made a dramatic difference for my aircraft! The
> Kiev is very quiet and as smooth as a turbine and more importantly, I am no
> longer plagued with the kickback problem I was having on shutdown. I haven't
> realized an increase in cruise speed ,however as in the Paradise
> Please don't get me wrong, that Warp is tough as nails and I do like
> it but the Kiev has solved my problems.
> The Lockwood tech was not suprised that the gearbox reshim /correct
> propellor combo solved the problem as they have dealt with that many times
> before even with low time engines.
> I just relate this story because sometimes things are not what they seem.
> I was absolutely sure the gearbox was not a problem. Maybe the "heavier"
> Warp was creating more wear, weaker bellview springs, who knows?
> Dick Maddux
> 912UL
> Milton,Fl
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Prop balancer |
Hi Dick,
Here is the website to get a wheel / prop balancer. Roughly $115.
I would call him. You need to ask for a model DU42 with the 14" shaft.
714-842-9210
Marc Parnes will most likely answer the phone
http://www.marcparnes.com/Universal_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307202#307202
Message 13
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The Rotax Flying Safety club is mainly an information site posted by Rotax people.
It is free
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307203#307203
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox/prop |
Dick, I had exactly the same thing happen a couple of months ago on my 912.
I spent weeks going through every nook and cranny to find the vibration so
urce. Finally, I gave up and took it to the Rotax repair station in Arlingt
on. The owner told me the vibration was probably the gearbox and like you,
I was "absolutely sure" it was not. The gearbox was overhauled and re-shimm
ed and the vibration went away! I had about 350 hours on the gearbox.
Scott
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Catz631@aol.com <Catz631@aol.com> wrote:
From: Catz631@aol.com <Catz631@aol.com>
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Gearbox/prop
=0A =0AThis is just an update on the Paradise P-1 we have been working on.
To review, the aircraft had developed a vibration at cruise rpms that could
be felt thruout the aircraft in flight and on the ground. After much testi
ng (carbs,prop pitch,tracking,etc) it was decided to pull the gearbox and s
end it to Lockwood for overhaul. The aircraft has less than 300 hrs since n
ew, the torque friction test was OK albeit on the lower side compared to an
other Paradise of equal vintage (3years old) I personally couldn't see how
it could be the box but the owner wanted to do it so. Lockwood inspected th
e box, said it-looked fine,reshimmed it-and sent it back with-new bel
ville washers. We reinstalled it and he flew it yesterday. Vibration is gon
e! Well, almost.There is just a hair.-He has ordered and will be installi
ng a new Kiev prop vs the square tip Warp on the aircraft. The Kiev is ligh
ter and has been much smoother on the few Paradise aircraft we have here.
Cruise speed has also increased.=0A-I have also removed the taper tip,ni
ckle edge Warp on my Kitfox and have installed the Kiev. It has-made a dr
amatic difference for my aircraft! The Kiev is very quiet and-as smooth a
s a turbine and more importantly, I am no longer plagued with the kickback
problem-I was having on shutdown. I haven't realized an increase in cruis
e speed ,however as in the Paradise=0A-Please don't get me wrong, that Wa
rp is tough as nails and I do like it-but the Kiev has solved my problems
.=0A-The Lockwood tech was not suprised that the gearbox reshim /correct
propellor combo solved the problem as they have dealt with that many times
before even with low time engines.=0A-I just relate this story because so
metimes things are not what they seem. I was absolutely sure the gearbox wa
s not a problem. Maybe the "heavier" Warp was creating more wear, weaker be
llview springs, who knows?=0A---------------
-------------------------
------------ Dick Maddux=0A--------
-------------------------
------------------- 912UL=0A---
-------------------------
-------------------------
Milton,Fl =0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox friction torque, when and how and it's |
mandatory!
Roger, You might clarify this a bit by mentioning that this is done only on
those gear boxes that have a "slipper clutch". Many 80 hp 912 UL engine do
not have slipper clutches.
Hugh McKay
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:38 PM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Gearbox friction torque, when and how and it's
mandatory!
>
> Hi all, I hope this helps.
>
> I thought I would talk about the gearbox friction torque and when it needs
> to be done and how.
> It is a mandatory check every 100 hrs or the Annual and it only takes a
> few minutes, but it is very important. It has a place on the Rotax
> inspection check list to record your test info and should be logged in
> your logbook for the inspection. (The owners that come to me, don't bother
> to look in the book, it's there.B))
>
> You will need a set of metric allen wrenches and a fish scale. Something
> that reads between 0-50 lbs. Don't use something that read really high as
> it won't be accurate down at the bottom numbers where we want to measure.
> I use a digital fish scale. You will need a piece of string too.
>
> As far as the how to perform this check, well let's take a look.
> While you have the prop spinner off for the inspection is a good time to
> do this. First remove the M8x20 plug screw for the locking pin . It is
> located about 3.5" above the magnetic oil plug. It is gold colored and has
> an upward angle on the head. It is a number 5 or 6 allen screw. Remove it.
> Get the black 1 3/4" crankshaft locking pin out of the Rotax orange tool
> kit. We will need to rotate the prop which can be done with one plug out
> of each cylinder or they can be left in. You will need a flash light to
> find the crankshaft locking pin grove. You are going to shine the light
> down the hole where you just took out the screw where the locking pin will
> be inserted. Slowly rotate the prop counterclockwise while looking in the
> hole. You may only see blackness, keep rotating until you see a shiny
> smooth oily surface. Continue to rotate slowly and you will see what looks
> like a notch or a "V". If you continue it will be shiny smooth again. Stop
> and go back to that "V" or notch. Mo!
> ve the prop back and forth slightly to get it centered. Now take the
> locking pin and screw this in. It should stop with 3/4" still sticking
> out. Hold the prop and slightly wiggle it while you snug up the locking
> pin into the center of the notch. Now your crankshaft should be locked.
> Absolutely do not screw the locking pin in further if it just keeps going.
> That means you missed. Take it out and look for the smooth oily surface
> and notch again. This is very easy so don't worry.
> Now with the crankshaft locked the prop can still move approximately 30
> degrees. Push the prop back all the way counterclockwise until it stops.
> Take a tape measure and measure out from the center of the prop hub
> outward along the blade between 24-30 inches. It doesn't matter what
> number you pick. If you pick 26", 28" or 30" it doesn't matter. Put a
> little pencil or a mark at your measurement.
> You need your string now around the prop at your mark. Now take your scale
> and hook it on the string. In a nice straight and even pressure pull, pull
> the scale and prop. Watch how much the scale reads. I usually do this 2-3
> times to make sure my reading is accurate. So let's say your reading was
> 17 lbs. To find the torque measurement we take that number 17 lbs. and
> multiply it times the number of inches you measured out from the prop
> center. Let's say you used 28" and had a 17 lb pull. 28 X 17 = 476 in/lbs
> That is a good number and is the number to record on the Rotax inspection
> sheet. We look for a bottom number of 300 and the high end of 530 in/lbs.
> In this case the higher the better. If you are at 490 in/lb verses 340
> in/lb you are much better off. No it isn't worth the effort to pull the
> gearbox to go from 450 to 510 and getting the friction right on is not an
> exact science. It is accomplished by pulling the gearbox and using shims
> to add more pre-load to the bellville washers that act as our spring
> tension.
> Your done, take out the locking pin and don't loose it. replace the plug
> screw at
> 133 in/lbs torque.
>
> If you are a member of the R.O.A.N. website you can look at this video
> that demonstrates this very well.
>
> Hi all,
>
> I thought I would talk about the gearbox friction torque and when it needs
> to be done and how.
> It is a mandatory check every 100 hrs or the Annual and it only takes a
> few minutes, but it is very important. It has a place on the Rotax
> inspection check list to record your test info and should be logged in
> your logbook for the inspection. (The owners that come to me, don't bother
> to look in the book, it's there.B))
>
> You will need a set of metric allen wrenches and a fish scale. Something
> that reads between 0-50 lbs. Don't use something that read really high as
> it won't be accurate down at the bottom numbers where we want to measure.
> I use a digital fish scale. You will need a piece of string too.
>
> As far as the how to perform this check, well let's take a look.
> While you have the prop spinner off for the inspection is a good time to
> do this. First remove the M8x20 plug screw for the locking pin . It is
> located about 3.5" above the magnetic oil plug. It is gold colored and has
> an upward angle on the head. I believe it is a number 6 allen screw.
> Remove it. Get the black 1 3/4" crankshaft locking pin out of the Rotax
> orange tool kit. We will need to rotate the prop which can be done with
> one plug out of each cylinder or they can be left in. You will need a
> flash light to find the crankshaft locking pin grove. You are going to
> shine the light down the hole where you just took out the screw where the
> locking pin will be inserted. Slowly rotate the prop counterclockwise
> while looking in the hole. You may only see blackness, keep rotating until
> you see a shiny smooth oily surface. Continue to rotate slowly and you
> will see what looks like a notch or a "V". If you continue it will be
> shiny smooth again. Stop and go back to that "V" or notc!
> h. Move the prop back and forth slightly to get it centered. Now take the
> locking pin and screw this in. It should stop with 3/4" still sticking
> out. Hold the prop and slightly wiggle it while you snug up the locking
> pin into the center of the notch. Now your crankshaft should be locked.
> Absolutely do not screw the locking pin in further if it just keeps going.
> That means you missed. Take it out and look for the smooth oily surface
> and notch again. This is very easy so don't worry.
> Now with the crankshaft locked the prop can still move approximately 30
> degrees. Push the prop back all the way counterclockwise until it stops.
> Take a tape measure and measure out from the center of the prop hub
> outward along the blade between 24-30 inches. It doesn't matter what
> number you pick. If you pick 26", 28" or 30" it doesn't matter. Put a
> little pencil or a mark at your measurement.
> You need your string now around the prop at your mark. Now take your scale
> and hook it on the string. In a nice straight and even pressure pull, pull
> the scale and prop. Watch how much the scale reads. I usually do this 2-3
> times to make sure my reading is accurate. So let's say your reading was
> 17 lbs. To find the torque measurement we take that number 17 lbs. and
> multiply it times the number of inches you measured out from the prop
> center. Let's say you used 28" and had a 17 lb pull. 28 X 17 = 476 in/lbs
> That is a good number and is the number to record on the Rotax inspection
> sheet. We look for a bottom number of 300 and the high end of 530 in/lbs.
> In this case the higher the better. If you are at 490 in/lb verses 340
> in/lb you are much better off. No it isn't worth the effort to pull the
> gearbox to go from 450 to 510 and getting the friction right on is not an
> exact science. It is accomplished by pulling the gearbox and using shims
> to add more pre-load to the bellville washers that act as our spring
> tension.
> Your done, take out the locking pin and don't loose it. replace the plug
> screw at 133 in/lbs torque.
>
> If you are a member of the R.O.A.N. website you can look at this video
> that demonstrates this very well.
>
> http://rotax-owner.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60:friction-torque&catid=8:training&Itemid=174
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307071#307071
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox friction torque, when and how and it's |
mandatory!
Hi Hugh,
Your right, I just assumed people would know, I should have been a little more
specific.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307228#307228
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