Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (FLYaDIVE)
2. 04:28 AM - Re: Re: Header wrap 3+ years later (FLYaDIVE)
3. 04:49 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (Richard Girard)
4. 05:24 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (FLYaDIVE)
5. 05:46 AM - prop balancing (dashwood)
6. 05:56 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (Roger Lee)
7. 05:57 AM - Re: prop balancing (Roger Lee)
8. 08:41 AM - Re: Gearbox/prop (ricklach)
9. 08:56 AM - Re: prop balancing (Richard Girard)
10. 10:44 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (Catz631@aol.com)
11. 11:13 AM - Re: Sensenich Prop (Damien)
12. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: prop balancing (George Myers)
13. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: prop balancing (George Myers)
14. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: prop balancing (Craig Payne)
15. 04:15 PM - Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Tom Jones)
16. 04:36 PM - Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Richard Girard)
17. 05:13 PM - Re: Header wrap 3+ years later (Roger Lee)
18. 07:06 PM - Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Tom Jones)
19. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax (Richard Girard)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Damien:
You bet it sounds like a plan. YOU are thinking correctly. The fellow who
put the 'stop' in was NOT.
The carb/throttle linkage on the engine is what is suppose to limit the RPM
not some stop that picked to do
who know what standard and why. Just think what would happen if you were at
a high altitude airport or had one of those
high density days. You could wind up in the trees at the end of the runway.
If the engine has a problem of over revving ... Check the carb. Or at
least, INCREASE the pitch on the prop.
That will give you more speed. Don't decrease your safety margin.
Barry
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Damien <dgraham7@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> Hello. I have a Zodiac 601 HDS. I had GSC 68 inch, 3 blade prop. Today I
> switched to a 68 inch Sensenich prop.
> It was a bit bumpy up there this afternoon, but at 5000 RPM, it seems that
> I have picked up 15 mph with the
> Sensenich prop. I will try to report more solid numbers later. The blade is
> pitched to 3; (the pitch numbers go from 1 to 5)
> When I did a static run-up, it was 4700/4800 rpm. When I got up to altitude
> and leveled it out, the most RPM I could get was 5100.
> The fellow who built my plane has a rubber stop about an inch long between
> the panel and the throttle. I am trying to think this through.
> My plan is to cut the rubber stop until I am able to reach either 5500 or
> 5800. This would give me more RPM at takeoff and allow me
> to cruise faster if I want to.
> Sound like a plan ??
> Regards,
> Damien
> N48TK
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Header wrap 3+ years later |
Roger & Gaggle:
How would you handle mufflers? Would you wrap them?
Barry
PS
Very kewl - WET - diver/instructor - retired.
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Barry,
>
> The wrap Mfg claims a 70% reduction in radiated and convective heat. I
> don't know if it is really that much, but if you land your plane would you
> put your hand on your exhaust pipes? Not without loosing some skin. I can
> land and put my hand on my pipes and keep my skin. With all the planes I
> have done the header wrap on I have not seen any downsides or any issues.
>
> --------
> Roger Lee
> Tucson, Az.
> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
> Rotax Repair Center
> 520-574-1080
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307406#307406
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Damien, before you go whacking away at the rubber stop, pull the cowl, take
off the air filters or filter box, and do a visual check to make sure the
throttle plates are fully open when the throttle lever is against the stop.
If they aren't, find a good mechanic and get the throttle cables adjusted
properly. Have him do a mechanical and pneumatic synchronization of the
carbs while he's at it. If the carbs are out of synch you could be losing
RPM even if the engine seems to be running fine.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 6:06 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
> Damien:
>
> You bet it sounds like a plan. YOU are thinking correctly. The fellow who
> put the 'stop' in was NOT.
> The carb/throttle linkage on the engine is what is suppose to limit the RPM
> not some stop that picked to do
> who know what standard and why. Just think what would happen if you were
> at a high altitude airport or had one of those
> high density days. You could wind up in the trees at the end of the
> runway.
> If the engine has a problem of over revving ... Check the carb. Or at
> least, INCREASE the pitch on the prop.
> That will give you more speed. Don't decrease your safety margin.
>
> Barry
>
> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Damien <dgraham7@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello. I have a Zodiac 601 HDS. I had GSC 68 inch, 3 blade prop. Today
>> I switched to a 68 inch Sensenich prop.
>> It was a bit bumpy up there this afternoon, but at 5000 RPM, it seems that
>> I have picked up 15 mph with the
>> Sensenich prop. I will try to report more solid numbers later. The blade
>> is pitched to 3; (the pitch numbers go from 1 to 5)
>> When I did a static run-up, it was 4700/4800 rpm. When I got up to
>> altitude and leveled it out, the most RPM I could get was 5100.
>> The fellow who built my plane has a rubber stop about an inch long between
>> the panel and the throttle. I am trying to think this through.
>> My plan is to cut the rubber stop until I am able to reach either 5500 or
>> 5800. This would give me more RPM at takeoff and allow me
>> to cruise faster if I want to.
>> Sound like a plan ??
>> Regards,
>> Damien
>> N48TK
>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Good point Rick:
Damien, as Rick said and I should have been clearer... Check the throttle
plate, and make sure they go from stop to stop. The only reason I can think
of to add the rubber is for repairs down the road. If the end of the cable
becomes nicked or damaged over time, by removing the rubber you would gain
that 1" back for making an end connection.
Barry
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> Damien, before you go whacking away at the rubber stop, pull the cowl, take
> off the air filters or filter box, and do a visual check to make sure the
> throttle plates are fully open when the throttle lever is against the stop.
> If they aren't, find a good mechanic and get the throttle cables adjusted
> properly. Have him do a mechanical and pneumatic synchronization of the
> carbs while he's at it. If the carbs are out of synch you could be losing
> RPM even if the engine seems to be running fine.
>
> Rick Girard
>
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 6:06 AM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Damien:
>>
>> You bet it sounds like a plan. YOU are thinking correctly. The fellow
>> who put the 'stop' in was NOT.
>> The carb/throttle linkage on the engine is what is suppose to limit the
>> RPM not some stop that picked to do
>> who know what standard and why. Just think what would happen if you were
>> at a high altitude airport or had one of those
>> high density days. You could wind up in the trees at the end of the
>> runway.
>> If the engine has a problem of over revving ... Check the carb. Or at
>> least, INCREASE the pitch on the prop.
>> That will give you more speed. Don't decrease your safety margin.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Damien <dgraham7@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello. I have a Zodiac 601 HDS. I had GSC 68 inch, 3 blade prop.
>>> Today I switched to a 68 inch Sensenich prop.
>>> It was a bit bumpy up there this afternoon, but at 5000 RPM, it seems
>>> that I have picked up 15 mph with the
>>> Sensenich prop. I will try to report more solid numbers later. The blade
>>> is pitched to 3; (the pitch numbers go from 1 to 5)
>>> When I did a static run-up, it was 4700/4800 rpm. When I got up to
>>> altitude and leveled it out, the most RPM I could get was 5100.
>>> The fellow who built my plane has a rubber stop about an inch
>>> long between the panel and the throttle. I am trying to think this through.
>>> My plan is to cut the rubber stop until I am able to reach either 5500 or
>>> 5800. This would give me more RPM at takeoff and allow me
>>> to cruise faster if I want to.
>>> Sound like a plan ??
>>> Regards,
>>> Damien
>>> N48TK
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>>> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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I have been searching the posts for " reasons for early gearbox failures" i have
some small nicks in my prop(warp ) and know it has never been balanced. i do
not feel any vibrations but am not sure what a smooth run wood feel like either.
what is the detailed procedure for balancing. what is the balance tool i am
hearing about. i have a three blade prop so the balancer would most likely be
a pinpoint on the bench???? i have never had the prop off so . how would one
find the exact center to start from.
--------
Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307609#307609
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Damien,
Adjust the cables at the throttle arm on the carb so the carbs can open all the
way. I would leave your rubber stop alone. Your throttle when pulled back should
just hit the stop in the cockpit at the same time the carb throttle arm on
the carb hits its stop screw. When the throttle in the cockpit is WOT so should
the throttle arm on the carb. If they open all the way then leave them alone
and flatten the pitch of the prop to get 5500-5600 WOT flat and level. This
rpm will give you the best balance between climb, cruise and fuel economy. No
use having more rpm than that unless you have a very special circumstance that
you need extra climb, but then you loose some cruise and fuel. You can only run
over 5500 rpm for 5 min. and you don't cruise up in those rpm's anyway so leave
the WOT rpm at 5500. If you are only getting 5100 WOT now then take out another
2.25 degrees on the prop.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307610#307610
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Prop balancer Reply
with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post
Hi Dick,
Here is the website to get a wheel / prop balancer. Roughly $115.
I would call him. You need to ask for a model DU42 with the 14" shaft.
714-842-9210
Marc Parnes will most likely answer the phone
http://www.marcparnes.com/Universal_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307611#307611
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox/prop |
Thank You both, Roger and Rick Girard for your very informative response's. I'll
make myself a balancer tomorrow and balance the prop the day after. Today I'm
going flying to establish a base line for the prop balancing effort.
Rick
--------
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307642#307642
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
Okay, I cheated, I'm a machinist as well as an LSARM so I turned some hubs
to fit the prop center and used a long dowel pin to center the prop. My
friend's balance uses two pieces of 3/4" band saw blade as the balancing
runners with level adusters on three points. It cost his dad about $5 to
make with some junk box parts and a little plywood. Easy to adjust until it
was dead flat on the runners and I turned the prop to put the balance
between blades 1 and 2, 2 and 3, and then 3 and 1, adding tape squares to
the blades until there was no movement of the vertical blade no matter how I
placed the prop on the runners.
Simple to do, took less than an hour to find what I had to do to get in
balance, hard to explain and unfortunately I didn't take any pictures.
Rick
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:46 AM, dashwood <dashwoodlock@hotmail.com> wrote:
> dashwoodlock@hotmail.com>
>
> I have been searching the posts for " reasons for early gearbox failures" i
> have some small nicks in my prop(warp ) and know it has never been balanced.
> i do not feel any vibrations but am not sure what a smooth run wood feel
> like either. what is the detailed procedure for balancing. what is the
> balance tool i am hearing about. i have a three blade prop so the balancer
> would most likely be a pinpoint on the bench???? i have never had the prop
> off so . how would one find the exact center to start from.
>
> --------
> Ross Aalexander: CH701 driver 912ul 398tt
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307609#307609
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Damian,
Rotax wants a minimum of 5200 static/takeoff @ wide open throttle(WOT) per
their service bulletin. Older cases (such as mine) have been cracked by not
following this.
Dick Maddux
912Ul
Milton,Fl
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop |
Dick:
Thanks very much for this info. I was at the airfield this morning
repitching the prop and I ended up
with a static of between 5100 and 5200. I will adjust it again to make
sure I get at least 5200 static.
Regards,
Damien
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@aol.com
To: rotaxengines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Sensenich Prop
Damian,
Rotax wants a minimum of 5200 static/takeoff @ wide open
throttle(WOT) per their service bulletin. Older cases (such as mine)
have been cracked by not following this.
Dick Maddux
912Ul
Milton,Fl
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:57 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: prop balancing
Balancers may be purchased for less than $25. California Power Systems or
CPS sells one for $16.95 which has a string attached to a bubble tube. The
string runs from one side of the prop hub's hole, up thru a shank the size
of the prop hub hole (and inserted into that hole), and to a washer to hold
or hang it from something. The string balancer is hung high enough so the
bubble tube on the bottom of the prop hub is observable. The bubble will
have to be changed in each direction for vertical and horizontal balance. As
of Oct. '03, Aircraft Spruce & Specialty or AS&S sells the same balancer for
$21.50.
For many years I have used a home made version out of a 1" oil plug (NAPA
4.50) with a hole drilled in the center of the bolt and a string epoxyed in.
It is the most sensitive static balance possible as it gives a simultaneous
vertical and horizontal balance. Hanging from the ceiling in a room with no
drafts lets you paint & balance at the same time.
George E. Myers Jr.
San Marcos, TX 78666
582 blue head w/ 3 blade warp
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 7:57 AM
Subject: RotaxEngines-List: Re: prop balancing
In case you're interested this is the one I use.
http://www.aerocorsair.com/id86.htm
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: prop balancing |
BTW: you can build your own dynamic balancer for relatively little money.
The biggest expense (if you don't have one) is a digital storage
oscilloscope. This is how Gary Ray balanced the prop on his Corvair-powered
Zenith 601XL:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Papawobo/DynamicBalancing#
Message 15
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| Subject: | Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
This is on a 503 rotax.
My Tympanium voltage regulator went bad so I replaced it with a Key West regulator.
I had the 12VDC output wire from the old tympanium regulator connected to
the starter side of the master contactor so This is where I connected the Key
West 12V DC output wire. My Hobbs meter is also connected to the same terminal
on the starter side of the master contactor.
I noticed my Hobbs kept running when the master is off. I disconnected all the
wires on the Key west and checked for voltage. There is 4.3 volts DC between
the key west ground terminal and 12V DC output terminal. Is it normal to have
some residual voltage in the Key west?
I guess I need to move the output wire from the key west regulator to the battery
+ terminal so that 4.3 volts doesn't touch the hobbs wire?? Am I on the right
track?
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307711#307711
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
Tom, I have the Key West on my 582, no such current or problem. Does your
master contactor have a built in diode across the switch terminals? If it
does I'd suggest it has probably failed. Have you checked the output side of
the Key West to make sure there is no AC leakage coming out of the DC side?
Do you have a 22,000 uf capacitor on the positive line coming out of the
regulator? If none of these suggestions help you might want to consider
taking the problem to the Aeroelectric Connection here on Matronics.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> This is on a 503 rotax.
> My Tympanium voltage regulator went bad so I replaced it with a Key West
> regulator. I had the 12VDC output wire from the old tympanium regulator
> connected to the starter side of the master contactor so This is where I
> connected the Key West 12V DC output wire. My Hobbs meter is also connected
> to the same terminal on the starter side of the master contactor.
>
> I noticed my Hobbs kept running when the master is off. I disconnected all
> the wires on the Key west and checked for voltage. There is 4.3 volts DC
> between the key west ground terminal and 12V DC output terminal. Is it
> normal to have some residual voltage in the Key west?
>
> I guess I need to move the output wire from the key west regulator to the
> battery + terminal so that 4.3 volts doesn't touch the hobbs wire?? Am I on
> the right track?
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307711#307711
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Header wrap 3+ years later |
No need usually to wrap a muffler so I would leave it alone.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307718#307718
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
Rick, thanks for the suggestions. Yes, there is a diode on the master contactor.
It could be bad but I can't figure out how that would make the voltage regulator
put out 4.3 volts when it is disconnected from everything?
I have checked the voltage with the engine running. The two AC wires from the
engine produce 35V DC at 3000 RPM and 70V DC at 6000 RPM. The output terminal
on the Key west produces 14V DC at all RPMs. This is all normal.
There is no mention of a 22,000 uf capacitor anywhere in the Key West instructions
or schematic.
The only thing I did different than the instructions is to connect the voltage
regulator out put wire to the starter side of the master contactor instead of
directly to the battery positive terminal. I did this so the voltage regulator
would be off line when the master switch is off. The problem is this location
connects my hobbs to the output of the voltage regulator which runs the hobbs
when the master is switched off as well as when it is on.
I think I will connect the voltage regulator output wire directly to the battery
positive terminal like the Key West schematic shows and see what happens?
I'm just wondering if it is normal to have a few volts (4.3 V DC) from the voltage
regulator output terminal with it is completely disconnected from everything
except my multimeter.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307724#307724
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator on 503 Rotax |
No, somehow you're battery has got to be back feeding through the contactor,
I think.
As regards the capacitor on the hot lead of the regulator. See 18.5 in the
Installation Manual. Rotax, and others, use it as a load when the system
runs without a battery. The battery performs the function of a load when it
is installed. Rotax doesn't show the other use of the cap which is a filter
to clean up the electrical output. What the Key West does is rectify the AC
output by chopping off one side of the AC sine wave. The DC output then
becomes a fast rising pulse varying between 0 and 14 volts positive, the
diode bridge as I say having cut off the the 0 to 14 volt negative side of
the AC. This rectified signal is kind of trashy and it is this trash that
the capacitor leaks to ground. It will improve your DC voltage if you run
radios or any sensitive electronics. Rat Shack used to sell an alternator
noise kit that included a big cap and an inductor coil. When the alternator
output was run through the two of them the cap killed the rising and falling
alternator whine and coil killed the clicking noise put out by the old
mechanical regulators. This was back in the days when car stereos were first
being installed in cars and their power supplies weren't as sophisticated as
they are today.
I think you're on the right track to switch your hobbs some other way.
Rick Girard
PS If you do decide to install a filter cap you want an electrolytic type
and make sure you get the polarity correct. If you wire it backward it'll
blow up. They also store a charge for a long time, weeks at least be sure to
ground it out if you have to disconnect it.
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> Rick, thanks for the suggestions. Yes, there is a diode on the master
> contactor. It could be bad but I can't figure out how that would make the
> voltage regulator put out 4.3 volts when it is disconnected from everything?
>
> I have checked the voltage with the engine running. The two AC wires from
> the engine produce 35V DC at 3000 RPM and 70V DC at 6000 RPM. The output
> terminal on the Key west produces 14V DC at all RPMs. This is all normal.
>
> There is no mention of a 22,000 uf capacitor anywhere in the Key West
> instructions or schematic.
>
> The only thing I did different than the instructions is to connect the
> voltage regulator out put wire to the starter side of the master contactor
> instead of directly to the battery positive terminal. I did this so the
> voltage regulator would be off line when the master switch is off. The
> problem is this location connects my hobbs to the output of the voltage
> regulator which runs the hobbs when the master is switched off as well as
> when it is on.
>
> I think I will connect the voltage regulator output wire directly to the
> battery positive terminal like the Key West schematic shows and see what
> happens?
>
> I'm just wondering if it is normal to have a few volts (4.3 V DC) from the
> voltage regulator output terminal with it is completely disconnected from
> everything except my multimeter.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307724#307724
>
>
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